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OpenRift

Final Doom-Plus?

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Context, I guess

Recently I've been on a quest to create the optimal DOS Doom experience for each installment of the id tech 1 trilogy. So far, I've gotten Doom 1 and 2 fully set up with dehacked, Doom1/2-plus for bypassing savegame limits for certain WADs, and also SIGIL.EXE, a special fork of Doom-plus design for John Romero's fifth episode. Recently, I figured out dehacked for Final Doom (apparently the id Anthology version of the executable doesn't play nice with dehacked, so I had to borrow the executable from the Steam version), and I've successfully been able to load up WADs like Plutonia 2 and Plutonia Revisited with their respective dehacked patches.

 

The issue

I started Plutonia 2 yesterday and reached the third level, which causes a savegame overflow in the vanilla executable upon saving. Today I did some research, finding this DoomWiki article about Doom-plus and noticed that speedrunner Archy had at one point made a "Final Doom-plus (aka fdoomp.exe)" fork of it. Further research has yielded no discovery of the executable, only another Doomworld post asking the same thing. But what most interested me was @Redneckerz's reply to the question, stating, "As far as i could trace back, Archy's Final Doom Plus was never released." 

 

That being said, does anyone know where one could perhaps contact Archy? Perhaps he has a copy of his fabled Final Doom-plus executable sitting on a harddrive somewhere that we could maybe get published or maybe even get our hands on the source code and make a more polished/complete version of this illusive executable.

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9 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Context, I guess

Recently I've been on a quest to create the optimal DOS Doom experience for each installment of the id tech 1 trilogy. So far, I've gotten Doom 1 and 2 fully set up with dehacked, Doom1/2-plus for bypassing savegame limits for certain WADs, and also SIGIL.EXE, a special fork of Doom-plus design for John Romero's fifth episode. Recently, I figured out dehacked for Final Doom (apparently the id Anthology version of the executable doesn't play nice with dehacked, so I had to borrow the executable from the Steam version), and I've successfully been able to load up WADs like Plutonia 2 and Plutonia Revisited with their respective dehacked patches.

Dont forget about Doom32. Which is basically Doom-Plus with some additional removed limits that are very useful for larger levels.

Xttl's Ultimate Doom Hack attempts to be the ultimate all-in-one vanilla hack, but its not finished yet. So until then, i consider Doom32 as the exe hack for vanilla.

9 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

 

The issue

I started Plutonia 2 yesterday and reached the third level, which causes a savegame overflow in the vanilla executable upon saving. Today I did some research, finding this DoomWiki article about Doom-plus and noticed that speedrunner Archy had at one point made a "Final Doom-plus (aka fdoomp.exe)" fork of it. Further research has yielded no discovery of the executable, only another Doomworld post asking the same thing. But what most interested me was @Redneckerz's reply to the question, stating, "As far as i could trace back, Archy's Final Doom Plus was never released." 

As the write of the above article, let me add some additional detail:

One user, @Randy87 quite possibly has the greatest historic Doom archive i have ever come across* and who has been extraordinarily helpful in retrieving some otherwise impossible to find hacks and things. Not even he has Archy's build. Hence ''As far as i could trace back''.

Sadly this Final Doom-plus seems lost to the ages until further notice. It shares a similar fate with some rather obscure source modifications that otherwise had some significant features that are interesting to check out.

* On top of that Randy has also posted some rather amazing savegame hacks so if there is one user who deserves cred, its Randy. And hopefully he does not mind me making this kind of grand compliment. :)

9 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

That being said, does anyone know where one could perhaps contact Archy? Perhaps he has a copy of his fabled Final Doom-plus executable sitting on a harddrive somewhere that we could maybe get published or maybe even get our hands on the source code and make a more polished/complete version of this illusive executable.

I believe Archy is either banned or inactive on DW, hence why i never bothered to ask.

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16 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Dont forget about Doom32. Which is basically Doom-Plus with some additional removed limits that are very useful for larger levels.

Xttl's Ultimate Doom Hack attempts to be the ultimate all-in-one vanilla hack, but its not finished yet. So until then, i consider Doom32 as the exe hack for vanilla.

As the write of the above article, let me add some additional detail:

One user, @Randy87 quite possibly has the greatest historic Doom archive i have ever come across* and who has been extraordinarily helpful in retrieving some otherwise impossible to find hacks and things. Not even he has Archy's build. Hence ''As far as i could trace back''.

Sadly this Final Doom-plus seems lost to the ages until further notice. It shares a similar fate with some rather obscure source modifications that otherwise had some significant features that are interesting to check out.

* On top of that Randy has also posted some rather amazing savegame hacks so if there is one user who deserves cred, its Randy. And hopefully he does not mind me making this kind of grand compliment. :)

I believe Archy is either banned or inactive on DW, hence why i never bothered to ask.

Wow, thanks for the information dude. Lots of great info here. I think what most fascinates me is this archive that Randy has, is this publicly available via a link or is this a private collection of his? Also I think Doom32 is only compatible with 1 and 2 (also loading it with Ultimate Doom doesn't show Thy Flesh Consumed in the episode select for whatever reason, so maybe just 2 then).

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8 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Wow, thanks for the information dude. Lots of great info here. I think what most fascinates me is this archive that Randy has, is this publicly available via a link or is this a private collection of his?

Its his private collection. I have a text file listing of it. Its pretty something massive, Randy has it all backed up but ill leave it in the middle for how long (as i don't know) :P

8 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Also I think Doom32 is only compatible with 1 and 2 (also loading it with Ultimate Doom doesn't show Thy Flesh Consumed in the episode select for whatever reason, so maybe just 2 then).

Ah yes that's right. Its purely Doom 1/2, but since it was from Xttl, perhaps its based off the Anthology version? Most of his hacks use that as a base (Like Nr4tl.exe) because of a few things:

  • Its the latest official Doom engine build iD put out
  • Its one of the most stable builds, fixing several bugs in the process

The only thing is that the Anthology executable is quite a rarity, so for it to be the basis of most of his hacks is especially useful since you essentially get the latest iD engine build. By comparison, Entryway's Doom-Plus hacks aren't based off the Anthology version AFAIK.


The UDoomHack i linked uses the Anthology version as a base aswell. So perhaps you can test out the R2 release linked and see how that performs?

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17 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Its his private collection. I have a text file listing of it. Its pretty something massive, Randy has it all backed up but ill leave it in the middle for how long (as i don't know) :P

Ah yes that's right. Its purely Doom 1/2, but since it was from Xttl, perhaps its based off the Anthology version? Most of his hacks use that as a base (Like Nr4tl.exe) because of a few things:

  • Its the latest official Doom engine build iD put out
  • Its one of the most stable builds, fixing several bugs in the process

The only thing is that the Anthology executable is quite a rarity, so for it to be the basis of most of his hacks is especially useful since you essentially get the latest iD engine build. By comparison, Entryway's Doom-Plus hacks aren't based off the Anthology version AFAIK.


The UDoomHack i linked uses the Anthology version as a base aswell. So perhaps you can test out the R2 release linked and see how that performs?

I just gave it a try. Works fine with standard Plutonia and TNT, HOWEVER, it also inherits the same problems that the standard id Anthology doom2.exe seems to suffer from, that being that player controls don't work when used as a base for dehacked, which could be an issue in terms of its versatility. Should I let him know about this?

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28 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

I just gave it a try. Works fine with standard Plutonia and TNT, HOWEVER, it also inherits the same problems that the standard id Anthology doom2.exe seems to suffer from, that being that player controls don't work when used as a base for dehacked, which could be an issue in terms of its versatility. Should I let him know about this?

Yeah, post it in the exe hacking thread, might always be useful!

But as a base for Dehacked? What do you mean?

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1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

Yeah, post it in the exe hacking thread, might always be useful!

But as a base for Dehacked? What do you mean?

I mean, using udoom.exe as the reference executable in dehacked to generate a doomhack.exe creates the same problems as the id anthology doom2.exe.

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Really interesting finding the one you made about the Id Anthologies version, OpenRift.
Cool job!
 

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Just did some testing myself to confirm and yeah, any DEH patches applied to Id Anthology versions of the EXE seem to just result in corruption.

 

Tree designed DeHackEd to work with the vanilla version of Final Doom from 1996 rather than the fixed version from (I dunno, 2000 or something?) so it makes sense that an altered version of the EXE results in corruption as soon as the player attempts to move - The same thing happens when you try to use DeHackEd on old/outdated versions of the Doom1 EXE, I'm guessing for the same reason, slight internal adjustments and rearrangements mean that DeHackEd is inserting the "new code" from DEH files in the wrong place for this version of the EXE.

 

On 12/5/2018 at 7:56 AM, Empyre said:

Before ports that could load deh files, Dehacked worked by editing the exe file. It used offsets into the code to know where to edit things, so you had to have the exact version of the code that dehacked expected, or the offsets would be pointing to the wrong places. The executables for shareware Doom, registered Doom, Ultimate Doom, and Doom 2 would be different enough to make it not work if you have the wrong one selected, even if they all had the same version number.

Looks like the same applies to the patched/fixed version of the Final Doom EXEs!

 

EDIT: FWIW, I just use DoomP for playing Ultimate Doom mods in DOSBox, Doom32 is even better of course, but I have yet to run into something for Vanilla/Limit Removing Ultimate Doom that won't run in DoomP.

 

I'd also definitely recommend using xttl's awesome NRFTL.EXE in case your want to play Nerve.wad in DOS. I played through Nerve using his expanded EXE and it just felt so right. Here's an archive with all of the most up-to-date vanilla EXEs, including expanded versions, that I'm aware of (xttl's cool stuff, Doom32, JadingTsunami's ultra-easy DehPick/DehMake and FastDoom, plus some other useful vanilla utils)

 

If xttl gets that "One EXE to rule them all that works for Doom/UltDoom/Doom2/Final Doom with all the bugfixes and has DeHackEd support" that would be so awesome. Seems like a giant feat to try and get just one EXE to know what to do depending on what iwad it detects, since there seem to be some tiny-but-important revisions between the 1.9 D2/UD/Final EXEs, and those differences muck around with DEH support and such.

Edited by Doomkid

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37 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Just did some testing myself to confirm and yeah, any DEH patches applied to Id Anthology versions of the EXE seem to just result in corruption.

 

Tree designed DeHackEd to work with the vanilla version of Final Doom from 1996 rather than the fixed version from (I dunno, 2000 or something?) so it makes sense that an altered version of the EXE results in corruption as soon as the player attempts to move - The same thing happens when you try to use DeHackEd on old/outdated versions of the Doom1 EXE, I'm guessing for the same reason, slight internal adjustments and rearrangements mean that DeHackEd is inserting the "new code" from DEH files in the wrong place for this version of the EXE.

 

Looks like the same applies to the patched/fixed version of the Final Doom EXEs!

 

EDIT: FWIW, I just use DoomP for playing Ultimate Doom mods in DOSBox, Doom32 is even better of course, but I have yet to run into something for Vanilla/Limit Removing Ultimate Doom that won't run in DoomP.

  

I'd also definitely recommend using xttl's awesome NRFTL.EXE in case your want to play Nerve.wad in DOS. I played through Nerve using his expanded EXE and it just felt so right. Here's an archive with all of the most up-to-date vanilla EXEs, including expanded versions, that I'm aware of (xttl's cool stuff, Doom32, JadingTsunami's ultra-easy DehPick/DehMake and FastDoom, plus some other useful vanilla utils)

  

If xttl gets that "One EXE to rule them all that works for Doom/UltDoom/Doom2/Final Doom with all the bugfixes and has DeHackEd support" that would be so awesome. Seems like a giant feat to try and get just one EXE to know what to do depending on what iwad it detects, since there seem to be some tiny-but-important revisions between the 1.9 D2/UD/Final EXEs, and those differences muck around with DEH support and such.

Great stuff as always. I didn't even know there was a special NRFTL executable, that's pretty awesome.

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