Grindhouse - 1 map, Boom format, OTEX, possible WIP

[TheOrganGrinder]

Grindhouse is a single map, originally designed as part of a larger project but offered up here to solicit feedback and because it's rare enough that I actually finish even a single map.

• The map itself is in Boom format, is intended for the Doom II IWAD, and occupies the MAP01 slot, though should I expand this into a multi-level project it will appear in the MAP02 slot.
• Tested in PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 (compatibility level 9) and ZDoom 2.8.1
• Intended to be played without jumping or crouching; jumping in particular will allow certain encounters to be bypassed.  Freelook isn't necessary but I don't think it'll break the level.
• Difficulty should be about on par with the middle levels of Doom II, however since this was originally conceived as an early map in a larger project both the weapons available and the monsters present are quite limited.  Difficulty settings have been implemented, though I suspect even Ultraviolence isn't going to offer veteran players too much of a challenge.
• A .deh file is included with the WAD which serves only to change the map name.

You can download the WAD here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7pfzedw71lgotw/om02_a1.zip?dl=0

 

This WAD makes use of Ola Björling's OTEX resource set, which may be downloaded here and at this point must be loaded alongside the level itself.  If I decide not to expand this into a multi-map project, I'll compile the flats and textures used in Grindhouse into the WAD for a subsequent release; if I do expand this into a multi-map project then I'll hold off on including the graphics until all levels are completed and I know exactly which textures the project must include.

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

I hope you enjoy this map and I look forward to any feedback that people wish to leave.

Edited September 18, 2020 by TheOrganGrinder : fixing link

[Dimon12321]

Yeah, that's funny. I'm pressing the download link and it takes me back to the same page. Its text is right, however =)

[TheOrganGrinder]

Okay I don't know how I messed that up but I think it's fixed?  Not an auspicious beginning...

[Dimon12321]

Don't worry! Everything else is fine. Quite a good map!

 

I died of revenants' missiles in the sewers 3 times. Found a secret chainsaw. Even though I didn't use it, it's gonna be a good weapon if you run out of ammo. I had 100 bullets and no shells at the end.

 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Played on UV, with no secrets found due to personal stuff. Was great map I could say, I have to constantly micromanaging the resources. Only downside I could think of is the SSG could have been obtained later, near the red key arena. The pinky ambush could use some additional work as well, one could block the way out.

[Biodegradable]

Hey that was good fun, Organ. Nice design and layout, solid combat and straightforward progression. I had a lot of fun exploring this map with all its nooks and crannies and little setpieces. The underground part with the 4 pods filled with Revenants is probably the most memorable part. As you said, it's not a huge challenge, but who says butt-blistering difficulty is the only way to make Doom fun? The smooth intricate flow of design, progression and combat is where it's at and this map excels at all of them.

 

Terrific work, man. 

[Salmon]

I had a good time with this.  Really nice map flow and great use of vantage points.  I loved the way it all looped around naturally without using teleporters.  My favorite part was also probably the drop down into the sewer.

 

My only quibbles:  I agree that it felt like you gave the SSG too soon (even though I switched between it and the single barrel a lot early on to conserve ammo.)  The trap with the pinkies and the revenant felt a bit toothless.  You're already up top when you trigger the trap, so unless you hop down immediately the demons aren't a threat that I could see.

 

I only found one secret (the soulsphere area) but I had limited time and might look for the others later.

[TheOrganGrinder]

Thanks to everyone for your feedback!

 

Overall it sounds like the area most in need of work is the red key arena and particularly the pinkies that teleport in, my original intent had been that this could play out in one of three ways:

• The pit is big enough that an agile player can duck and dodge past them and head around to the bars that have opened, but will then have to deal with them when collecting the red key;
  
• Alternatively, the player can remain up on the ledge to shoot them as they mill about down below, but is exposed to fire from the far side of the arena when doing so;
  
• Or a player who finds the secret chainsaw can use it on the pinkies to conserve ammo for later in the map.

And it's pretty clear that how I pictured it playing out and how it actually plays out are quite different.  I'm tempted to swap out the teleporting pinkies for lost souls and/or cacodemons to remove the option of staying up on the ledge out of harm's way, and I feel like more enemies teleporting in on the far side of the arena would add pressure to an encounter that's rather lacking them.

 

On the other hand it sounds like the little sewer area went down a treat.

 

@Dimon12321 and @TheNoob_Gamer, thanks for the feedback on the resource management; it's intentionally quite tight, even with UV throwing in more shotgunners (and introducing them earlier) and providing more shells that way.  Re: the early introducion of the super shotgun (which @Salmon also notes) this is mostly to give the player something beefier than the shotgun or chaingun when dealing with the revenants behind the lifts in the entry hall (which I don't think is tricky with those weapons, just slower) but I'd also hoped that it would add a bit of complexity to the weapon jugggling and resource management in the early part of the map, with a handful of monsters that really warrant both barrels but mostly zombies, imps, and shotgunners which are more efficiently dealt with using the shotgun and chaingun if the player is concerned about their ammunition.  Another case of my expectations and assumptions not lining up with actual player behaviour, which is why this sort of feedback is especially valuable to me.

 

@Biodegradable, thank you for the feedback and for the video; it's interesting to see how the gameplay mod you're using changes my assumptions about resource management, and also in certain places where something I had hoped would be intuitive didn't really work out that way.  For example in the entry hall you're pressing at pretty much everything except the lifts up to the walkway, and that's one of the reasons they're triggered by nearby walk linedefs rather than press-only, but I feel like I ought to put health or armour pickups in front of each lift to draw the player over just in case the texture itself doesn't adequately suggest that here is something that moves or can be interacted with.  Your yelp of surprise at 4:07 tells me that the monster in the corner there is doing exactly what it's supposed to, and your reaction at 10:30 as you're coming toward the end of the blood trench is mostly in line with what I'm trying to engineer there; you've passed underneath three separate crushers prior to that point and I'm hoping that the player will be wary of the fourth but may be caught off-guard by the barrels and chaingunner on the other side of the door, and either reflexively firing or reflexively backpedalling can end badly there.

[Biodegradable]

Always makes me feel all warm and fuzzy when a mapper appreciates my feedback/gameplay. Feels like I'm being a worthwhile contributor to the Doom community, so I'm happy to be of service, mate. I'd love to see you share some more maps. :^)

[Antkibo]

I don't have experience reviewing maps, but'll try. I played your map on GZDoom on Ultra-Violence and didn't find any secret. Hope my insight helps :>

• Map design is good. Love how natural you make players twist and turn. Texture usage is right on point, too.
• I like how there's several paths to choose from at the start. I always went right for the chaingun, but could have went for the SSG first as well.
• Ammunition was scarce, but not much of a problem.
• The main areas to improve are monster placement and monster variety.
• The chaingunner in the red key area, for example, has no room to breath - it's tucked away too far from the player. 
• You only put revenants in front of players; they can also be put on a different altitude on an open area to up the pressure.
• The green armor area could use a chaingunner when player enters for the first time.
• Both the SSG and red key teleport ambushes feel very weak. The former only spawns imps each besides each other. The latter doesn't endanger players - if you press the switch and stand still pinkies can't do a thing while you can easily take cover from the revenant's missiles. Even if you drop off the platform, pinkies are easily dispatched. You could change the pinkies for an archvile or another high-pressure enemy, or even add something on the switch's side.
• The dark pit area feels too hard and too dark. 
• Threat players' backs too!
• You certainly love revenants. However, tight, closed maps don't help revenants too much. Try to use other monsters or make use of players' hate for revenants to surprise them from a different direction.

Good luck! Your map was a blast to play.

[Ed_Deth]

got trapped in chainsaw secret had to use noclip to get out

[Lippeth]

Excellent map, I'd love to play more like this! I played on UV in PrBoom+. It took a few tries to get the ammo situation sorted, and I didn't find a secret, but the way the map kept looping back on itself was really cool. I finished the map with seven shells and no bullets. Other than the things that have already been addressed, the only gripe I had was the music, it didn't really seem to fit the setting for me personally.

[TheOrganGrinder]

@Antkibo, thank you for the detailed point-by-point; some of what you've pointed out here is more easily fixed than other parts, but I'll take it all into account as best I can, especially your observations on the red key area and how encounters there can be reworked.  Your insight on the abundance of revenants is likewise appreciated; there are a few areas where encounters that feature other monsters on HMP and lower instead feature revenants on UV, and I was probably looking too closely at individual encounters and not at the big picture of "hey, there's actually a lot of revenants here on UV."

 

@Ed_Deth, thank you for the bug report; I haven't yet been able to replicate this in either ZDoom or PrBoom+, can you tell me which port you were using please?

 

@Lippeth, I'd been interested to hear more about your perception of the setting and what sort of music might fit it better!  Mostly I picked Deep Into the Code because of the constantly grinding/chugging distorted guitar, with the intent that it should suggest some kind of a parallel to the constantly and noisily working machinery and crushers in the building that takes up the south-west segment of the map; grindy guitar music for an environment that is itself meant to be a play on the term "grind house."  On the other hand, it doesn't particularly fit the cave environment that makes up most of the rest of the map, so I'm certainly interested in what the setting felt like to you and what sort of music you feel might have fit that setting more fully.

[Ed_Deth]

On 9/20/2020 at 10:45 AM, TheOrganGrinder said:

@Antkibo, thank you for the detailed point-by-point; some of what you've pointed out here is more easily fixed than other parts, but I'll take it all into account as best I can, especially your observations on the red key area and how encounters there can be reworked.  Your insight on the abundance of revenants is likewise appreciated; there are a few areas where encounters that feature other monsters on HMP and lower instead feature revenants on UV, and I was probably looking too closely at individual encounters and not at the big picture of "hey, there's actually a lot of revenants here on UV."

 

@Ed_Deth, thank you for the bug report; I haven't yet been able to replicate this in either ZDoom or PrBoom+, can you tell me which port you were using please?

 

@Lippeth, I'd been interested to hear more about your perception of the setting and what sort of music might fit it better!  Mostly I picked Deep Into the Code because of the constantly grinding/chugging distorted guitar, with the intent that it should suggest some kind of a parallel to the constantly and noisily working machinery and crushers in the building that takes up the south-west segment of the map; grindy guitar music for an environment that is itself meant to be a play on the term "grind house."  On the other hand, it doesn't particularly fit the cave environment that makes up most of the rest of the map, so I'm certainly interested in what the setting felt like to you and what sort of music you feel might have fit that setting more fully.

It was GZDOOM  tried again and had no problem ??

Edited September 22, 2020 by Ed_Deth : tried to repeat bug

[TheOrganGrinder]

Thanks for the feedback; I don't often play GZDoom and had to update it just to test this, but I haven't yet been able to replicate this bug.  If you've tried it again and found that it works as it should then that's good news, I'll keep a note of the bug report anyway.  If nothing else the secret cubby with the chainsaw in it could probably do with a little adjustment to make it clearer which wall is the way out since it's possible to get disoriented in a tiny squarish room; I'll put a different texture on the lowering wall in a subsequent build.

[Lippeth]

@TheOrganGrinderIt doesn't completely ruin the experience, but it feels like the music should combine the aggressive tech vibes with a bit of outdoor atmosphere. I don't really have any solid suggestions off-hand, but a lot of users upload their own compositions to use for maps. If the soundtrack to Abuse wasn't used in so many levels of UAC Ultra I would recommend that sort of atmospheric tech vibe. I mean, I'm sure you can still use it.

[TheOrganGrinder]

I'm not familiar with the Abuse soundtrack (I... think I played a demo back in the day and don't even recall if that version had music?) but I appreciate the suggestion, I'll track it down and give it a listen.

[John Wheel]

Played on PrBoom+ on UV, completed it in the first try. Demo included for you convenience/pleasure.

 

I liked a lot how each room has it's own geometry and theme going on. Going through it feels like a mini-adventure of sorts and I can see it as part of a larger wad. Not sure whether the "castle" section makes sense on the overall progresion, tough.

 

I don't mind that it falls in the easier side of the spectrum, but the hell knights and the pinkies safely tucked in the lower level of the red key arena it's a bit too much. Can't add much to what others said. Seen it, played it, liked it.

grindhouse-demo.zip

Edited September 27, 2020 by John Wheel

[galileo31dos01]

Casual 3/4 foreknowledge 1/4 blind: link

 

I can't find an option to attach files directly to dw like I used to do, yet it seems others can do it...

 

Map plays nicely, though I agree with others about the music selection, it doesn't blend with otex imo. Perhaps something from MM2 or darken2 could do the trick, since both have maps in similar themes - a techbase with cave sections.

 

As a small tip, you can insert dehacked lumps in the wad file, since yours is boom, prb+ will read it automatically. Makes life simpler and tidier (:

[danidf96]

Really good map with an amazing use of the OTEX texture pack.I hope that one day this becomes something more than a map because it was a neat but way too short experience. Weather you decide to carry on or not, my opinion will not change.

[ElPadrecitoCholo]

I liked the Wad because of the way it was decorated and structured, it almost seemed to be a level of Quake for me, but leaving that aside, regarding its difficulty, it is acceptable for me, not very difficult, but it is not easy to finish it, although of course , I am also aware that in a secret they give you a Soulsphere to last longer in combat, but as well as the trap where there are 4 Revenants behind you in a small space, it leaves me wondering if one would really last with the sphere in traps like these , but anyway, after all this said, the rest is easy to complete without problems because you already reach the exit with a little ammunition left over, and I really have a good time with this map, good atmosphere that has and also its design.
(By the way, could you tell me the way one can lower the wall where the Hell Knight was, reaching almost the exit of the level? I know there is a portal there that takes you directly to the medicine cabinet that you see up to where the area is. of the pillars that crush you)

[Juka]

Just finished it and it left me wanting more, I stopped every now and then just to appreciate the structures, hoping to learn a thing or two about the way you mapped, it was really inspiring. There really isn't much to point out except that the traps could be a little harder (except the revenant in the sewers one, that's pretty good already), but that's my personal preference. If you decide to make more, I'll play them for sure!