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Raleigh

A look to the past

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Doom mapping don't need DB to build great maps!

Post a screenshoot of you testing/or using an old tool of mapping of lump editor ;)

Edited by Raleigh

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1 hour ago, YMB said:

I used to use WadAuthor all the time. Got it off this disc that my dad had lying around in a pile of similar stuff.

 

https://archive.org/details/3dGameAlchemy

 

If I recall correctly, it had a penchant for crashing irregularly without warning - which really tested my patience!

 

Me just crash me when I try copy paste a colum xd

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On 9/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, YMB said:

WadAuthor .... If I recall correctly, it had a penchant for crashing irregularly without warning ....

Doesn't happen to me. Not even once that I can recall.

 

[EDIT: I take that back. The one thing that reliably crashes WA is if you copy and paste a selection that has a stray vertex. This is a vertex that is not associated with a linedef.]

Edited by ReX : Added information

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But staying on topic, here are 5 maps (using WA) combined into a "single" wad, and screen-capped into MS Paint (south and east edges cropped):

 

 

Maps24-28b.jpg

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Still use parts of WadAuthor to this day.   A great editor for its time.

 

On 9/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, YMB said:

I used to use WadAuthor all the time. Got it off this disc that my dad had lying around in a pile of similar stuff.

 

https://archive.org/details/3dGameAlchemy

 

If I recall correctly, it had a penchant for crashing irregularly without warning - which really tested my patience!

 

 

Sort of like how gzDoombuilder just crashed on me over the weekend--poof; 1/2 hour's work gone.  

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2 hours ago, joepallai said:

Sort of like how gzDoombuilder just crashed on me over the weekend--poof; 1/2 hour's work gone.  

 

Usually upon a crash you find a file yourpwad.wad.backupx in the editor folder.

 

Most crashes of GZDoom Builder could be traced back to not using the required support files or a corrupted DevIL.dll or installing it in C:\Programs. In the past my advice to install Doom Builder 2.1.2.1553 setup first, which installs all required support files, met with ca. 90% success. The other 10% could not be identified.

 

However, why do you still use GZDoom Builder when Ultimate Doom Builder has eradicated so many bugs and added many new features?

 

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18 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

Usually upon a crash you find a file yourpwad.wad.backupx in the editor folder.

 

Most crashes of GZDoom Builder could be traced back to not using the required support files or a corrupted DevIL.dll or installing it in C:\Programs. In the past my advice to install Doom Builder 2.1.2.1553 setup first, which installs all required support files, met with ca. 90% success. The other 10% could not be identified.

 

However, why do you still use GZDoom Builder when Ultimate Doom Builder has eradicated so many bugs and added many new features?

 

 

Mostly due to laziness honestly; also thanks for the reminder of the .wad.backupx something I knew about but fortunately haven't had to use in a very long time.

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I also tested edmap using DOSBOX, I like interface of it... but looks very "buggy"

What I noticed from old editors (WA and edmpap) is on ammo/armor say you quantity that give you... thing DB should have too considering it advanced.

 

What I learnt is if you want understand doom engine you should take a look to old editors.

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You should look into WinDEU if you're just messing around for fun, obviously it's very dated but I could see it being usable after an hour or so of familiarizing.

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Doomkid, don't you have an old video where you messed around with old map editors? Maybe you can try DOSBox-X and actually get some of the DOS editors working :^)

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7 hours ago, Doomkid said:

You should look into WinDEU if you're just messing around for fun, obviously it's very dated but I could see it being usable after an hour or so of familiarizing.

I tried use windeu but my w7 don't execute it, says stopped working. RIP

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On 9/23/2020 at 11:25 AM, Kappes Buur said:

However, why do you still use GZDoom Builder when Ultimate Doom Builder has eradicated so many bugs and added many new features?

Has UDB made the Script Editor actually useful again or is literally all functionality except writing ACS scripts still gone ?

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It's amazing to see the progress that has been made. I remember things like lines splitting sectors used to be a manual procedure. Even things like flagging linedefs as 2-sided used to be explicit; now it's automatic. Most editors don't even expose the bit for sidedness to the user.

 

It's hard to explain just how much computing power and memory space have increased since the early days. Inside the SLADE map editor, for instance, many duplicate copies of the map contents are kept in memory to provide a rich "undo" function that can restore the map as it was before any previous edits. Such a thing would have been unthinkable in the early Doom editing days.

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21 minutes ago, inkoalawetrust said:

Has UDB made the Script Editor actually useful again or is literally all functionality except writing ACS scripts still gone ?

 

Unfortunately the text editor is still crippled to just deal with ACS.

It would have been good if jewalky (ZZYZX) had left it as it was in GZDB or at least have made the text lumps editable with an external text editor, like Sublime or Notepad++, from within UDB.

 

The reasoning at the time was that UDB was just a map editor and text lumps should be edited with a lump editor. However, I always thought that jewalky was not comfortable with programming and maintaining a text editor when there were requests to make it a full fledged text editor.

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1 hour ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

Unfortunately the text editor is still crippled to just deal with ACS.

It would have been good if jewalky (ZZYZX) had left it as it was in GZDB or at least have made the text lumps editable with an external text editor, like Sublime or Notepad++, from within UDB.

 

The reasoning at the time was that UDB was just a map editor and text lumps should be edited with a lump editor. However, I always thought that jewalky was not comfortable with programming and maintaining a text editor when there were requests to make it a full fledged text editor.

Well I really hope that the Script Editor becomes useful again because holy shit having to close your map in UDB then open it in SLADE to edit anything besides the scripts in it, then close it from SLADE and reopen it in UDB sounds like it will get VERY tedious and VERY fast, especially with the other issues it causes such as losing your undo history by having to close and reopen the map.

Also I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind destroying the SE was that it was """""too buggy""""" (Read: Sometimes GZDB would crash if you opened or closed too many tabs in the SE too fast.).

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:46 PM, inkoalawetrust said:

Well I really hope that the Script Editor becomes useful again because holy shit having to close your map in UDB then open it in SLADE to edit anything besides the scripts in it, then close it from SLADE and reopen it in UDB sounds like it will get VERY tedious and VERY fast, especially with the other issues it causes such as losing your undo history by having to close and reopen the map.

Also I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind destroying the SE was that it was """""too buggy""""" (Read: Sometimes GZDB would crash if you opened or closed too many tabs in the SE too fast.).

Or you could finally move over to a non-shitty workflow.

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I've got DMapEdit working in a DOS 6.22 VM and am able to create a working wad that I can grab from my native win10 install. It's such a stark difference to the DB family.. Drawing vertexes individually then connecting them with linedefs, ugh.

 

I've got all the necessary files and instructions on how to set it up in a zip file but it includes doom2.wad so obviously I can't link it here.

 

Here's a token screenshot from the wik

Dmapedit-02.jpg

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11 hours ago, boris said:

Or you could finally move over to a non-shitty workflow.

Yes it's my fault for wanting to use the features of a program instead of needing 2-3 Windows Explorer windows open on several folders for my maps' data, one on my assets folder in case I need any audio/sprites/whatever to be added in, and one on my mapmaking resources folder for any WADs for custom pre-made assets I want to load as resources before merging them into a PK3 once I'm done with the map's development, and one on the structure of the map itself (The graphics, sounds, sprites etc folders) to juggle all the previously mentioned things between each other. Including having to have a SLADE window or two open on the files like MAPINFO to actually edit them if I need to change anything. So just having to juggle through and keep track of 5-6 windows, map editor included.

Edited by inkoalawetrust

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You can always stick to the pixilated style and edit the game to vanilla with the new builders and editors.

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