Do Doomers like or hate custom monsters in vanilla and boom wads?

[Spie812]

My answer is much the same. If custom monsters are well utilized and preferably fill some sort of niche, then I welcome their addition to a WAD. Variety is fun!

 

I'm going to echo the sentiment that Scythe 2's rendition of the Afrit and Mr. X are examples of some poor use of custom monsters. It was a pretty early attempt at custom monsters in a non partial/total conversion set so they get a little slack, but I'm definitely not alone in thinking they could have been implemented better. I think Ancient Aliens, Valiant, Lunatic, and Eviternity (I'm on team pro Astral Cacodemon) should be looked at as the gold standard of custom monster usage.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Spie812

[D4NUK1]

Yes, i trink they good implementation can give great points to a custom wad.

[Raleigh]

Me I love see different sprites in a doom wad, is good see something different from default game.

[DNSKILL5]

The only time new enemies bother me is when they feel out of place due to the art being too different in style to the rest of the enemies.

[VanaheimRanger]

My official opinion is: it depends

 

It depends on how aggregious the changes are from vanilla behavior.  If it still feels like it fits in Doom I'm alright with it.  A lot of mods that add modified enemies are fine, Eviternity is mostly fine...but I did not like the Archangelus boss, too fast, too many new attacks, way too much HP, it really felt like it belonged in a different game.  The rest of the new enemies in the wad were fine additions.  Weapon mods on the other hand usually aren't as great, the new weapons in Struggle are the reason I still haven't committed to a full playthrough of it yet, they just don't feel...Doomy.

[Argenteo]

Examples: "The Sky May Be" : The "blessed" monsters are hilarious, incomprehensible and super powered. If you're a Player that skips the two tutorial maps and enter into the Sky...you know what happens. There's no learning curve. Surprise after surprise....iddqd is not enough. 

 

"Echelon": Custom monsters (Viper, Clusterfiend/Midasfiend), plenty of texture (Awesome graffiti). Small size maps, fast gameplay, a reason to blast those bastards, the custom things are assimilated in a cohesive way. Don't forget the music.

 

There's so much diferent wads, as are different moods and state of mind to enjoy the Doom experience. I don't think one is good or bad. Its about what the author wants to express and how he is going to do it.

 

 

[Bridgeburner56]

If they are good I like them. If they are bad then I do not. 

 

TL:DR it depends 

[URROVA]

I like custom monsters, sometimes im bored of vanilla, all the same monsters, you already knows what do all the monsters, i like some new monsters that behaves different, less monotony on a game :)

[Doomkid]

There are definitely "holes" in Doom 2's monster lineup that can be filled. Zombies with weaker/slightly slower Plasma Guns are awesome. They're like fodder versions of Arachnotrons, which makes sense as Chaingunners are like fodder versions of Masterminds.

 

There's definitely room for a few more flying enemies as well. Just gonna toot my own horn here and say the Flame Cacos from the Rowdy Rudy wads are badasses. They're much more nimble than garden variety Cacos. The way to deal with an ordinary Caco is to just scooch it further and further away by shooting it, you hardly even have to move. The Flame Caco won't be shooed away nearly as easily.

 

There's also more niche-yet-badass stuff like the double-headed Chaingunners riding Arachnotrons in All Hell is Breaking Loose that hop off and keep coming after you even after you kill their Arachno-host. I don't know what world in which I wouldn't welcome such a freakazoid of an enemy.

[Mr. LBN]

The sheer fact that the first mapping project I'll ever be working on in BOOM format has all enemies and weapons modified/customized I'd say yeah I really don't mind 'em.  The biggest issue when it comes to Vanilla and BOOM format is how limited you are relative to DECORATE.  That's also where the charm lies in modifying/customizing the enemies with DeHACKED.  How can I make(or download) an enemy look like it belongs in DOOM and behaves like a DOOM monster without upsetting the balance/playstyle people are accustomed to.  And how much customization can I actually do with DeHACKED (Vanilla being the hardest).  When I first released a DEMO it was quite obvious that changing up the balance of the arsenal and enemies can really turn off players or really make them thirst for a proper map pack with them in habitats and shit so it's a tightrope scenario for the modder.  The enemies were simply too brutal (yes even by themselves) and projectiles were almost all moving at the highest speed they could go and basically had the smack of a Revenant Missile.  Don't ask me what I was thinking upon releasing this demo considering these enemies balanced.  Even the melee only enemies were bastards.

 

As cliche as it is I think D4V is one of the best examples of what you can really pull off with Vanilla DOOM (The sheer fact that you can play it with any vanilla pWAD with balance generally in tact is an amazing feat).  The blood that stays on the ground shortly is always nice(even though I've actually done this myself without realizing other people have done it and I actually took it a step further and created different blood pools depending on damage output).

 

Weapons are obviously harder to make standout with DeHACKED although you can actually make pseudo land mines, and a dispersion weapon that are noticeably different from your Vanilla/BOOM arsenal.  Probably some other stuff too, but who knows.

 

Doomkid also comes to mind for what I think is a healthy dose of dehackery and sprite changes. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mr. LBN

[whybmonotacrab]

I think they're fine if they're implemented well and tutorialised well. We all know how the vanilla Demons work, but you can't just chuck a new enemy in with a bunch of other enemies haphazardly, you need to take the time to show the player how they work or they're just frustrating.

[UncleTito]

I'm fine with customs that don't rely on projectile spam/health sponginess to provide novelty/aRtIfIcIaL difficulty. I'm looking at you, Scythe 2 and 

Spoiler

Fucking Sunder

 

[Swalzi]

I generally like custom monsters in Doom as long as they fit Doom's art style.

My favorite custom monster is the Scythe 2 evil marine. I can see why a player would dislike it, especially since it doesn't follow the same rules of movement the player has to. How the enemy is configured is kind of true to what Erik set the enemy out to be, a deathmatch player. I made a wad called LOWEFF that includes them but they're slightly tweaked. Added more duration to their attack state so the player can react with an attack of their own, and lowered their pain chance.

I feel the evil marine fills out a role in Doom's roster. High-damage glass cannon that can push players out of comfort zones. Erik has this awesome setup in map15, "End of the Line" for the evil marine that utilizes line-of-sight in a creepy damp area to fight him. It's a more intense fight than in map16, "Mr. X."

I haven't seen him anywhere except Scythe 2. If anyone know any wads that include this same ultra-fast Evil Marine (Resurgence doesn't count but I like them in that wad too), please let us know. Preferably vanilla or boom. Zdoom is fine too. Thanks.

[Zemini]

My wad has over 30 custom monsters in it.  Some made by me, others come from other user wads, iwads, and monster databases.  Can't stop myself.

[JXC]

2 hours ago, Zemini said:

My wad has over 30 custom monsters in it.  Some made by me, others come from other user wads, iwads, and monster databases.  Can't stop myself.

What is it called?

[fveitsi_]

2 hours ago, JXC said:

What is it called?

Can't stop myself. /s

[Chip]

It all depends. I love those REKKR enemies, but some enemies like that flying demon from Scythe 2 (haven't played) seems like an annoyance. 

[Doomkid]

You gotta stap passing judgements on wads you've never played LiT! It's a bad habit to be in.

[Deadwing]

Custom monsters that also adds more identity to the wad, even without gameplay changes, are cool too.

[CBM]

I usually hate custom monsters in vanilla and boom levels, mainly because they then become more difficult to replace with a standard set of 3D models

[esselfortium]

12 minutes ago, CBM said:

I usually hate custom monsters in vanilla and boom levels, mainly because they then become more difficult to replace with a standard set of 3D models

Don't worry, having only some of the monsters use 3D models will still look just as bad as having all of them use them.

[Gez]

Custom monsters (or at least custom monster skins, like in Avactor) make me more interested in a wad.

 

Same for custom texture sets, or for a bespoke soundtrack.

[Zemini]

18 hours ago, JXC said:

What is it called?

 

It doesn't have a name yet.  I posted it as 3 separate episodes called "Phobos Echoes" in one of the "I want to play your wads" threads.  I can't remember which one.  But my mega wad has changed quit a lot since then.

[deathz0r]

It's totally fine and when implemented well it adds freshness to the core Doom gameplay.

[CBM]

11 hours ago, esselfortium said:

Don't worry, having only some of the monsters use 3D models will still look just as bad as having all of them use them.

I disagree, all monsters look better as 3D models

[Doomenator]

9 hours ago, CBM said:

I disagree, all monsters look better as 3D models

Not always, but talk about how 3D models look bad than sprites mean of limited perception.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CBM]

doomenator:

you just proved my point, those 3d models are much nicer than sprites

 

example monster that will be featured in an upcoming megawad I am making:

 

 

a space marine dark angels dreadnought

 

-----

 

there will be a sith world, rebel world, space marine world, alien world, strogg home world, zombie apoc world and more

 

I'm considering not using any hitscan enemies

Edited September 25, 2020 by CBM

[SilverMiner]

I like custom monsters if they add something new to gameplay, being not just reskin of preexistent foes but playing their unique roles, e.g. rocket guys in Eternal Doom 4

[Caleb13]

Honestly, I think >80% of custom monsters are garbage and I either cut that cancer out with an editor or completely avoid the WAD if I can't. The same goes for custom sounds, they are almost invariantly crap ever since they first appeared in high-profile WADs like Eternal Doom (1996).

 

Simply put, I play Doom because I want to play Doom, not some half-baked "enhancement". If I wanted to play a game with different monsters and sounds, I would go play Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Corridor 7, Redneck Rampage or any other of the dozens of shooters from the era.

[Super Mighty G]

The key is to know the role your monster is filling. If you have just a Baron recolor that has slightly more HP what is the point? The monster should offer something that others don't. Or if it's similar it should just replace the original monster to avoid overlap.