Vanilla vertical scrolling walls: An experiment with mikoportals

[URROVA]

I was playing with mikoportals, and i tried to close the portal sector as a door, and i saw that the sector ceiling lowers infinitely. And i thinked: Why not use this as a vertical scrolling wall?

 

Obviously, it haves some limitations:

• Doesnt work on GZDoom, like normal mikoportals
• In some time the door stop renderizing, but if it haves 1 sided no-unpegged linedefs these still scrolling. 
• You have to make impassable all the passable linedefs of the "door", because you can pass throught the door and see glitches.
• Keep in mind that in PrBoom / PrBoom+ in sectors that are too low, things do not show well, it can be fixed by raising the playable map, and leaving the vertical scrollers, obligatory with the floor at height -32768.
• In some cases the game can crash. See the post that explain this

 

Link to a demo wad: https://mega.nz/file/3KBBDa7J#CeKnCvzF3V4YtNh6IBzs-MGMLjceae63AtBP0qVVeDg

Link to Rising Base, a playable map featuring mikoscrollers (1.1): https://mega.nz/file/qXI2yLaL#lxHW38jOEQAbXgFjRzVNIwpWj4ugtdwiuJK3Jkkjgew

 

A gameplay video of Rising Base (played on chocolate):

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by URROVA : rising base

[URROVA]

Shit, I must have put it in Doom Editing forum. Well, for the next one :/

[P41R47]

Interesting idea, pal!
I've seen something like this on some mapsets, but they had a fixed heingt and so after that the scrolling texture start scrolling in reverse.
I'm curious, the limit for moving sectors is 33 in vanilla i think, have you tried to put some of this infinite scrolling walls and some other moving sectors on the same map? Don't know why, but it think this could crash chocolate and vanilla pretty easily.

 

2 minutes ago, URROVA said:

Shit, I must have put it in Doom Editing forum. Well, for the next one :/

You can report for a change of sub forum, i think there it will have a little more spotlight.

[URROVA]

3 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Interesting idea, pal!
I've seen something like this on some mapsets, but they had a fixed heingt and so after that the scrolling texture start scrolling in reverse.
I'm curious, the limit for moving sectors is 33 in vanilla i think, have you tried to put some of this infinite scrolling walls and some other moving sectors on the same map? Don't know why, but it think this could crash chocolate and vanilla pretty easily.

 

You can report for a change of sub forum, i think there it will have a little more spotlight.

Ok, now i searching for reporting this for change the subforum

[URROVA]

6 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Interesting idea, pal!
I've seen something like this on some mapsets, but they had a fixed heingt and so after that the scrolling texture start scrolling in reverse.
I'm curious, the limit for moving sectors is 33 in vanilla i think, have you tried to put some of this infinite scrolling walls and some other moving sectors on the same map? Don't know why, but it think this could crash chocolate and vanilla pretty easily.

 

You can report for a change of sub forum, i think there it will have a little more spotlight.

Ye, i investigated about that, and the limit is only for floor or ceiling actions, that is actions 10, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 47, 53, 62, 66, 67, 68, 87, 88, 95, 120, 121, 122 and 123, like says doomwiki. But these scrolling textures are doors closing, no floors or ceilings. So i think that the limit raises. Doomwiki says: "Crushers, stairs, donuts and doors do not count against this limit, even if they change the floors." https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Moving_platforms_limit

[P41R47]

WOW, pal! You might have stumble with something really great to enhance vanilla :D
But better continue investigate this option, find how it break and how it not, that way it will be properly usable without drawbacks.

Don't know why, but i think that something moving...endlessly could make the map to start presenting strange behaviours after some time playing.

Check this post i made on a recent uploaded megawad:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2189053
Map24 of that megawad, for unknown reasons to me, starts acting really strange after a few minutes, doors disappearing, homs appearing out of nowhere, switches stop working.
All that on chocolate, obviously.

[URROVA]

1 hour ago, P41R47 said:

WOW, pal! You might have stumble with something really great to enhance vanilla :D
But better continue investigate this option, find how it break and how it not, that way it will be properly usable without drawbacks.

Don't know why, but i think that something moving...endlessly could make the map to start presenting strange behaviours after some time playing.

Check this post i made on a recent uploaded megawad:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2189053
Map24 of that megawad, for unknown reasons to me, starts acting really strange after a few minutes, doors disappearing, homs appearing out of nowhere, switches stop working.
All that on chocolate, obviously.

Yes, is a very strange effect. I mean, a sector lowering infinitely, you can pass throught it and see glitches in mid of it (because this you have to make its lines impassable), in a moment the sector stops renderizing, its very strange.

 

Anyways, tomorrow im going to make a "normal vanilla map" with this thing for testing if it breaks something.

[Mystic 256]

No one can stop me from making COMPBLUE waterfalls now

 

 

 

[URROVA]

Making the map to show this trick I also realized that if I put things in too low a sector, in PrBoom/PrBoom+ these things do not look good, they look at close distances, and from far away they do like a "Popping". This is fixed by raising the level a little, I raised the entire level 1024 points and it was fixed (obviously I did not touch the vertical scrollers, they obligatory have to have the floor at -32768)

[URROVA]

Here is it: the playable map, Rising Base, featuring mikoscrollers :)

EXCLUSIVE FOR VANILLA. For those who are fighting to see which engine has the right to have exclusive mods and which not in the doom_ace topic.

Credits: see credits lump

 

Link 1.1

https://mega.nz/file/qXI2yLaL#lxHW38jOEQAbXgFjRzVNIwpWj4ugtdwiuJK3Jkkjgew

 

The mikoscrollers arent too buggy. Less than i thinked. I used various linetypes, complex linetypes like stair builders, some mikoscript, etc

 

BUT: it discovered a limitation: a crash risk

If you made that @Mystic 256 made (a plain mikoscroller on a side and nothing more), it not haves crash risk, is totally safe.

 

But if you make this, there is a crash risk:

 

You can fix it making some Non-Mikoscroller borders, like this

 

 

This fix is used on rising base (see the FIREBLU bars, these arent it only for decoration)

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by URROVA

[URROVA]

Oof, fixed an embarrasing bug (utilized a non-existing flat on various places)

 

1.1: https://mega.nz/file/qXI2yLaL#lxHW38jOEQAbXgFjRzVNIwpWj4ugtdwiuJK3Jkkjgew

[holaareola]

Very cool. I tried the map out and the whole thing feeling like it was rushing upwards was an awesome effect.

[plums]

This is awesome, nice discovery! Good use of it here too, definitely gave the map a unique feel.

 

Also, did you take that screenshot in GZDoom?

Edited October 1, 2020 by plums

[URROVA]

50 minutes ago, plums said:

This is awesome, nice discovery! Good use of it here too, definitely gave the map a unique feel.

 

Also, did you take that screenshot in GZDoom?

Yes, i didnt learned how to make a vanilla/chocolate screenshot yet

[retro65]

On 9/28/2020 at 1:16 PM, Mystic 256 said:

No one can stop me from making COMPBLUE waterfalls now

 

 

 

I want to make a non-canon liquid-fall in my map, and I have a (fairly) important question:

Can I make it walkable? Basically, is it possible to walk on the water upstream and then drop down into the water downstream?

[URROVA]

15 minutes ago, retro65 said:

I want to make a non-canon liquid-fall in my map, and I have a (fairly) important question:

Can I make it walkable? Basically, is it possible to walk on the water upstream and then drop down into the water downstream?

Ehh i dont believe that. A mikoscroller is basically a door that closes infinitely. so you cant make lower-texture only vertical scrollers.

[Noiser]

[P41R47]

As i said before, this is something big for sure.

 

Time to make proper and good vertical tileable textures.

[retro65]

23 hours ago, Noiser said:

Is that to me?

[retro65]

Anyways, I studied how can these break, and I found a solution to them ceasing to work after they pass a halfway point.

The 1s wall behind the 2s should have lower unpeg clear, so when the 2s stops rendering the 1s behind it will continue, pegged to the still lowering ceiling.

Also, to reduce popping when the switch between 1s and 2s occurs, I decided to make it a isosceles triangular sector, with the one 2s connected to the room, and the two identical 1s's 1 unit behind it.

The wad I made has the metal-textured scroller showing the exaggerated structure, while the ickwall-textured scroller is squished to 1 unit.

Demo included.

mikoscrl-new.zip

[retro65]

I apologize if I'm replying too much, but turns out there's still a visual bug that occurs when I move the room to 0|128.

The scroller is at -32768|100, so you can see 28 pixels of the 2s texture, but instead of 1s being displayed behind it there is just noise.

Edited November 19, 2020 by retro65 : more info

[P41R47]

1 hour ago, retro65 said:

I apologize if I'm replying too much, but turns out there's still a visual bug that occurs when I move the room to 0|128.

The scroller is at -32768|100, so you can see 28 pixels of the 2s texture, but instead of 1s being displayed behind it there is just noise.

Woah!

Noise?
Never seen something like that.
That could be interesting to use somehow.

[xttl]

The "noise" is just the floor/ceiling texture, downsampled a lot (drawn as it was somewhere far away up/down) and floodfilled towards infinity because there is nothing to stop it.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Moiré_error

 

Anyways cool trick.

[URROVA]

15 hours ago, retro65 said:

I apologize if I'm replying too much, but turns out there's still a visual bug that occurs when I move the room to 0|128.

The scroller is at -32768|100, so you can see 28 pixels of the 2s texture, but instead of 1s being displayed behind it there is just noise.

wow, its nice for making monitors with interference :)

 

Its more, if you walk into a closing mikoscroller you will see noise too, because this you have to put the impassable flag to the mikoscroller

[Ar_e_en]

On 9/28/2020 at 2:16 PM, Mystic 256 said:

No one can stop me from making COMPBLUE waterfalls now

 

 

 

I find it funny that DOOM 2 (not Final Doom mind you) doesn't have a waterfall texture, green slime and blood falls exist, but the id guys never considered a waterfall to be a useful texture.

[retro65]

11 hours ago, xttl said:

The "noise" is just the floor/ceiling texture, downsampled a lot (drawn as it was somewhere far away up/down) and floodfilled towards infinity because there is nothing to stop it.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Moiré_error

 

Anyways cool trick.

That is very likely because in URROVA's wad they use different flats and the noisy bleed-out is in those colors.

Thanks.

[xttl]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:47 AM, Ar_e_en said:

I find it funny that DOOM 2 (not Final Doom mind you) doesn't have a waterfall texture, green slime and blood falls exist, but the id guys never considered a waterfall to be a useful texture.

 

They did at some point: the hardcoded texture animation tables in vanilla have WFALL1-WFALL4 which was added for Doom 2 in v1.666. Also, the development material released by John Romero contains unused waterfall textures. In the end, Doom 2 didn't have any waterfalls though so the textures got left out from the WAD. Somebody just forgot to remove the animation table entry. (or left it in on purpose for modders?)

 

There is also an unused flat animation defined (even in the oldest Doom 1 only executables) for another style of water floor: SWATER1-SWATER4. This was also included in Romero's data dump.

Edited November 21, 2020 by xttl