ID Games release - "f&*% You, Escher!"

[smeghammer]

**  EDIT 4  **

Now on ID Games!

 

** EDIT 3 **

Beta v.2 now released with changes following feedback from @Biodegradable - thanks.

 

Download at the bottom
 

** EDIT 2 **

Spoiler

 

Now released!!

 

(apologies for double post)

** END EDIT **

 

** EDIT **

This is for GZDoom. Freelook is fine (and probably necessary). Jumping not allowed (will disable this in due course).

** END EDIT **

 

 

 

Right - after some time, I have a new map in progress, I'm calling "Fuck You, Escher!". After several replies to some of my other posts about 3D floors, I thought I'd try to use portals instead. I realised you can easily do stuff to confuse... Here are some screenshots, but they don't really do justice to the mindfuck I am aiming for.

 

The download link is at the bottom if you want to try it out, though it is by no means finished (no MAPINFO, some areas not textured, one keyed door doesn't go anywhere yet, final exit not done).

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the ID GAmes download:

 

fuescher.wad

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by smeghammer : ID games release

[Biodegradable]

Sounds like a fun concept, Smeg. I'll check it out once you've got a more finished beta available.

[smeghammer]

@Biodegradable, cool thanks. Yeah, you can only really run around at the moment. There's a few monsters for testing, but nothing properly placed yet. Progress is a bit slower now the kids are back at school (school run and all that).

 

I really want to attempt something like this:

 

 

Look closely...

 

 

 

 

 

[Dylan Omen]

So here for anything referencing Escher! Also looks real moody!

 

EDIT:

 

Played a bit of it, really moody, got stuck in a seemingly endless hallway after I found the red key. 

 

I'm getting into mapping so these tricks were pretty cool to see. I like how the central room looks much smaller from the outside. but is labyrinthine when you go inside. How'd you achieve that?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Dylan Omen

[smeghammer]

1 hour ago, Dylan Omen said:

seemingly endless hallway

 

@Dylan Omen - Hah - yes that's one of the puzzles. Follow the lights...

1 hour ago, Dylan Omen said:

I like how the central room looks much smaller from the outside. but is labyrinthine when you go inside. How'd you achieve that

 

I started this because my previous map, Island Fortress, was my learning ground for 3D floors exclusively, so was effectively a 'real' space that made logical sense. Several members here commented that I could achieve 3D floors using portals. So I had a crack and realised I could use the line portals to connect two disparate parts of a map to give the illusion of an inner space bigger than an outer space. Further, one of the line portal types allows connections between different vertical levels. Hence the observation you made.

 

Look at the map in UDB or Eureka etc. and you will see that the map is actually several physically unconnected spaces. Each are connected with line or sector portals to make the maze.

 

Anyway, thanks for having a look. I'll be adding to it and updating over the next few weeks.

Edited September 29, 2020 by smeghammer

[stewboy]

I spent several minutes trying to run it in Eternity before remembering that there were other source ports capable of achieving portals too. I love that you're playing around with these ideas - I personally really enjoy weird/mind-bending architecture. I'd definitely encourage you to check out the Eternity sourceport, which is capable of doing a lot of this sort of thing and even more.

 

As for that Escher artwork you posted, I actually tried to recreate that myself a couple years ago. Turns out it's really difficult to get just right, you have to be careful with your texture choices to not make everything too obvious, and it only works when viewed from one perfect angle. Feel free to make a better/more interesting job of it than me though!

 

Spoiler

 

[smeghammer]

@stewboy That's really neat. Like it.

 

Yeah, should have said - this is built for GZDoom. Sorry. Will update the OP.

 

What I want to try is an actual working one - may not be visual, but I think I can sort of do it in reverse - have a stepped river (possibly in two map sections) and a line portal at the top which points at a linedef at the bottom and vice versa - that way, you *should* be able to endlessly run up or down.

 

I did find that if I surrounded a sector portal with line portals (square hole with surrounding linedefs in a square) I could get weird effects where the sector portal from floor 1 to floor 2 (for example) would effectively be to the targets of the four surrounding line portals - thus getting round the sector portal limitation of connecting to equal ceiling/floor heights. This is in an early commit, but I removed it. I *might* put it back as it may be useful for the Escher 'waterfall'.

 

There may be some mileage in using visual line portals too. Need to ponder this.

[Obsidian]

I'd echo what Stewboy said in regards to Eternity, it's a good port with some cheeky tricks up its sleeve. As for the map, I'm always keen to see people play around with unusual architecture and ways to twist the proverbial melon and by the looks of things you're doing an admirable job. Keep it up!

[Master O]

@smeghammer

 

[Master O]

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=64025

 

[smeghammer]

On 9/29/2020 at 4:27 PM, Biodegradable said:

Sounds like a fun concept, Smeg. I'll check it out once you've got a more finished beta available.

Check it out... finished the beta version 😁

 

[Biodegradable]

2 hours ago, smeghammer said:

Check it out... finished the beta version 😁

 

 

Pretty wild and woolly stuff here, Smegmaster. There is some really cool shenanigans you've got going on in this map and I find it both fascinating and bewildering. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish it properly. I got hopelessly stuck and frustrated, trying to find a way to the yellow skull, but then I found later that obtaining it is the last thing and then you leave, so I managed to skip a lot unintentionally. I can upload my footage if you're still interested, but I kind of fucked it up due to getting hopelessly lost and frustrated at one point. Let me know if you'd still find my footage useful at all, but I understand if you think otherwise. Regardless, this thing is really cool and I have nothing but major respect for the wealth of creativity going on in this map.

[Doom-X-Machina]

I have a work-in-progess of this somewhere... the house of stairs from Labyrinth, inspired by M.C. Escher's work...

I really must dig it out and continue it...

[smeghammer]

4 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

Pretty wild and woolly stuff here, Smegmaster. There is some really cool shenanigans you've got going on in this map and I find it both fascinating and bewildering. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish it properly. I got hopelessly stuck and frustrated, trying to find a way to the yellow skull, but then I found later that obtaining it is the last thing and then you leave, so I managed to skip a lot unintentionally. I can upload my footage if you're still interested, but I kind of fucked it up due to getting hopelessly lost and frustrated at one point. Let me know if you'd still find my footage useful at all, but I understand if you think otherwise. Regardless, this thing is really cool and I have nothing but major respect for the wealth of creativity going on in this map.

Thanks for playing and the feedback. I hope you didn't get too frustrated....

 

Yeah, I think I need to rework the yellow key. You opened the sewer closet where it lives in the library from the switch in the lower library reading room. At the moment you need to drop all the way down and come all the way back round to get back to the library top. That is too much I think. I'll make that better.

 

The final puzzle/secret you can see from the arch vile corridor therefore also needs to change. My intention was that the whole last section is optional but I think it needs to be mandatory - perhaps to contain the final exit barrier switch.

 

Finally I'm still not happy with the red key puzzle. Need to make that more fluid and less prone to backing-up weirdness - sometimes you can see former humans appear or disappear as you cross the line portals.

 

Anyhow your comments are hugely helpful and hopefully I can improve the map. 

 

 

[smeghammer]

Some notes on changes in this release:

 

 - reworked key puzzles to be more coherent

 - improved (I think...) the monster closet triggers

 - some monster placement changes

 - separated the two final secret accesses

 - added a couple of teleporters

 

I also kept the previous version as a release branch on my github repo.

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/763568286

 

My playthrough starts at 2:50:00. I didn't finish normally due to confusing circumstances.

[eharper256]

This seems like as good a time as ever to repeat the glory of Lego Escher:

[smeghammer]

@eharper256 love it. There's more...

 

 

 

 

Just did  quick search - there's loads of stuff about Lego and Escher.

 

 

 

[smeghammer]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:58 AM, Doom-X-Machina said:

I have a work-in-progess of this somewhere... the house of stairs from Labyrinth, inspired by M.C. Escher's work...

I really must dig it out and continue it...

 

Love that film.

[smeghammer]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:48 AM, Biodegradable said:

 

Pretty wild and woolly stuff here, Smegmaster. There is some really cool shenanigans you've got going on in this map and I find it both fascinating and bewildering. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish it properly. I got hopelessly stuck and frustrated, trying to find a way to the yellow skull, but then I found later that obtaining it is the last thing and then you leave, so I managed to skip a lot unintentionally. I can upload my footage if you're still interested, but I kind of fucked it up due to getting hopelessly lost and frustrated at one point. Let me know if you'd still find my footage useful at all, but I understand if you think otherwise. Regardless, this thing is really cool and I have nothing but major respect for the wealth of creativity going on in this map.

 

@Biodegradable, I changed the logic quite a bit since you played - based on your comments. Hopefully it is less confusing now. Basically, I changed the key sequence and split up the final linked set of secrets so they don't play sequentially, but optionally in any order.

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Hey @smeghammer, I'm thinking of making my own Escherian map and stumbled across yours. I had a blast playing through your map! I played until entering the yellow skull key door: am I right in assuming that the map is finished up until that point? 
 

I noclipped around and bumped into a secret area in the South. Will you be using that in some way later? Also, the monster closet in the first central indoor area (with the megasphere secret, and the backpack that I couldn't get) didn't open when I was there. Did I miss a trigger or something? I also never got to see the spider demons that I can hear from the outside courtyard.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I noticed early on what the deal was with the portals and didn't get lost all that much. My first hint was the candles that went in and out of existence in the endless corridor. That was quite a jolt of awe and mystery I got there! 

 

Would it be an idea to show the portals in action for new players somewhere in the beginning, lest they get hopelessly frustrated? I know that might take away some of the mystery though...

 

I returned back to the spawn area when I couldn't proceed through the yellow skull key door, and only then realised that the three keys are all visible from the starting area. Beautiful! It's those little things that add a whole bunch of cherries on top of an already mind-blowing experience, walking through the map whilst thinking how much all this keeping track of sections and portals must have taken!

 

Thank you so much for sharing this! I loved the lay-out, the use of textures, everything! I thought it was quite easy on UV, and I am really not that good of a Doom player. Perhaps ramp that up? Also, the lava part doesn't seem finished yet, both in terms of gameplay, and even some of the esthetics (sorry!). The other areas feel much more finely crafted to me. The only minor annoyance for me was the book cases that kept inpeding my speed in the library section. And I can see why they are prettier sticking out like that, and how less speed there is maybe better for the experience.

@stewboy Dear stewboy, would you share your Escher waterfall? I'm very interested in having a look!

[smeghammer]

@Peccatum Mihzamiz, really pleased you liked it! Feedback like this is really encouraging - thank you!

 

You should be able to finish the whole thing. It's possible the yellow key progression is not clear enough. I'm probably a bit ambitious with my maps - only been at it since April this year. All secret areas are reachable (I think... - I'll check) and the backpack on the platform thing in the main entrance room is certainly reachable - you need to drop all the way down to the lava.

 

So pleased you noticed the lights thing - wasn't sure that puzzle would work. Nice one.

 

I'll have another look at the lava room given your comments - I might be prompted to change it. 

 

Re the difficulty - I have definitely focussed on layout and aesthetics in the maps I have made thus far rather than monster placement - I know that monster progression and placement is a skill in its own right, and is definitely something I need to pay more attention to. I'm also not a Doom Meister - don't have time basically, what with two kids and a job. Kind or eats into Doom playing time :-)

 

If you like this one, you might like my earlier maps (fiddly details), though I certainly think this one is probably my favourite so far.

 

Cheers!

 

[Argenteo]

Hi, I didn't have much trouble finding the 3 keys, but I could not get past the door after the yellow triggered one...(???).
I found 2 computer maps but the map it's a mess to look. Maybe not showing it its better or taking the computer maps out.
There are rooms with lot of ammo and rooms kind of empty.
I played in HMP and 20 minutes.
I like the idea and concept but if it's about visuals and puzzles I think you should change the title picture and music. I'll give it another try later.

I remember the Nemisis experiment, a unfinished wad with ''Escher's'' architecture from the middle 90'. Seeing the pics above I was expecting something like that.

Keep up the work man! Wanna see more, and Im going to open that f*** door.

[smeghammer]

8 hours ago, Argenteo said:

Keep up the work man! Wanna see more, and Im going to open that f*** door.

 

Hey @Argenteo, thanks for playing, really appreciate the feedback and pleased that you liked it. If you want a hint:

 

Spoiler

 

Look in the lower level of the library...

 

 

8 hours ago, Argenteo said:

I think you should change the title picture and music.

 

Yeah... I always play with music off, so don't really think about that until someone points it out. What sort of style would you suggest? Not sure death metal would fit... It would need to be open source of course. And yes, I should change the TITLEPIC to something other than default. 

[Argenteo]

Recently I listen to these midis. Check out the miscellaneous stuff. Its awesome. I read the hint accidentally :). 

 

[smeghammer]

Now on ID games! Hurrah!

 

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/fuescher