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SpammerMike

Spider Mastermind Question

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If this has already been asked recently, feel free to remove this, mods or supermods(I think it's relevant because Doom 3 is a remake of Doom 1 and, therefore, there'll probably be a spidermastermind or some equivalent thereof). I was just wondering a simple question. Why is the spidermastermind the mastermind and not necessarily the most powerful Doom creature? It has a super chaingun, yes, but it's not that spectacular. I know that making a childishly powerful boss would've been dumb, but really -- why should the cyberdemon be more powerful health-wise and have a more devastating attack (provided you're no good at dodging rockets)? It just seems a bit unbalanced -- of course there might be some really tricky reasoning that proves me to be largely silly. Any takers on that proposition? ;)

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It's harder to dodge bullets...anyways, I think the Spider Mastermind in Doom3 will be using a plasma gun instead of the chaingun as we already have a chaingun monster.

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Makes good sense to me, I'll buy that for a dollar. I just thought that even when I first met it, the mastermind in Doom 1 was an absolute pushover. *yawn* But when I played Cybie in Tower of Babel, I nearly shit myself. That's what really got me wondering what the deal is.

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Personally, I hope they drop the Arachnotrons and make only one spider monster. The almighty Spider Mastermind. Preferrably with an awesome plasma cannon.

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I liked the arachnotrons personally...I loved strafing circles around 'em and blasting them with a shotgun. But yeah -- it'd be neat if the mastermind had a plasma chaingun, no?

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Black Void said:

They should have 3 types of spiders, because spiders are just so damn evil.

No, the spider enemies always go in the expanison pack. It's a tradition, if not a rule!

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Wait, I thought Doom3 was just a retelling of the original Doom story, and not technically a remake?

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Of course it's a retelling. You're right. It doesn't mean id can't retell it slightly differently than the first time they did. ;)

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Well, we've already seen in one of the released videos that some spider-like enemy is making an appearance. It looks Arachnatron-ish, but it could could be a merging of the Arachnatron and the Mastermind. Now that I think of it... the drawing seems reminiscent of Doom 64's Arachnatron.

At any rate, the Mastermind is the mastermind because it's a giant... mind. From what I gathered it was essentially pulling the strings for a lot of what happened in Doom. Why is it not the most powerfull? You can't beat it the same way as you could the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon was ├╝ber-powerful and built like a tank, but you could easily dodge it's missiles, and if you payed attention to the ammount of ammo that you had and kept your distance you could beat this guy without getting hit. The Mastermind's chaingun dealt out a constant stream of pain, and luckily there was no semblance of splash damage or he might have been harder to beat. All you had to do was hide... or shoot fast with the BFG, but if you didn't have the BFG the fight became a bit harder. If you didn't hide you would get hit and so damage and health were (I would imaging) sacrificed to give some lesser players or the ones without enough cells the ability to beat him and stay alive.

But in answer to your question, I'm pretty sure that the design issues are the reason for it being 'unbalanced'.

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When id was designing Doom I think they didn't expected most people to even have the BFG when they met the Spiderdemon, as it was more of a secret weapon. Without the BFG the Spiderdemon becomes a lot harder -- and if you remember that back in 1993 everyone sucked at playing FPSes and no one used the mouse or strafed or anything, suddenly the Spiderdemon became a lot lot harder.

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I'm sure id is going to come up with something "FREAKY" for the new spidermind. But I kinda liked the version from the novels. It was the same as the game ,but it had a new feature to it. It can throw "Soul Shattering Hallucinations" at you through Psychic Brain Waves. This weapon made me reflec on the scifi-horror flic "EVENT HORIZON".(An very UNDER-rated movie*IMO) When Dr.Weir placed his hand on L.Fishbirds head an made him see the horrific deaths of all his crew members of his command. Or the comic-book character "GHOSTRIDER", when he force his enemies to stare into his skull's eye sockets, the horrible hypnogogics made his victims go insane. But of coarse it'll be impossible for id to implement something like that in D3. But maybe it's brain-wave attack can be made to disorient you, sap your health or maybe slam you around or something. I also would like to see it's head(*brain) throb and pulsate like it's breathing. And that big gatling gun it has, I'd like to refer it as the (GUA-8/Avenger 30mm) used on our A-10/tank bustin attack planes. I's hope the gun has a much more fearsome looking muzzle flash when it's firing at you.

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You know, that's a damn good idea. I didn't think of it...but yeah, it should have some pretty powerful psionic attacks consider it's the spidermasterMIND. And yes, it should pulsate and the gatling gun should look more intimidating.

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Shaviro said:

anyways, I think the Spider Mastermind in Doom3 will be using a plasma gun instead of the chaingun as we already have a chaingun monster.

No.
It's fairly simple, they could just give the Spider Master mind a six-barreled autocannon, or chaingun cannon if you will, instead of that pussy chaingun it had in the old Doom that just fired shotgun shells.

That is a chaingun cannon (which you can't get to use yourself) that fires shells (not shotgun shells but machinecannon shells) and which provide a slight splash damage around the impact area.

The spider mastermind would be too easy if it had a plasma gun imo.

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Spidy`s chaingun can be countered with ease by using the same method as in DOOM1/2.It should have another attack like splash damge gun (BFG or rocket launcher).For example,if a player hide behind the some certain point (Wall,Large rock,Tower etc..),Spidy will use this kind of attack to do the damage.This will force the player to keep changing where he can be hided.

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[mod]This thread is like 17 days old! Are you trying to piss me off with that bumping???[/mod]

Perhaps if you were to fight the Spiderdemon in an area similar to DIS from the original, then maybe id should consider keeping a constant imp presence in the map. It seems to me that these suckers are so fast that if you were hiding behind a pillar, all it would take is an imp to get you dodging out of the way and back into the Spider's fire. Trying to dodge leaping imps and stay out of Spidey's line of fire could be difficult indeed, and make for a more interesting battle.

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Shaviro said:

It's harder to dodge bullets...anyways, I think the Spider Mastermind in Doom3 will be using a plasma gun instead of the chaingun as we already have a chaingun monster.

Huh? Because one enemy has a chaingun, the other can't? O_o

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Correction, a Spider MasterMind has a SuperChainGun, not just a Chaingun like em Commando's do. So i dont see a problem with The Mastermind having one.

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Shaviro said:

It's harder to dodge bullets...anyways, I think the Spider Mastermind in Doom3 will be using a plasma gun instead of the chaingun as we already have a chaingun monster.

DA is right, it is called a Super Chaingun whereas the chaingunners have a normal stock one.

And that picture of a spider with a plasma is probalby more likely to be the new arachnotron.

Anyway, just hope the icon of sin doesn't make it into Doom III. =]

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If the Icon of Sin did make it in Doom 3, I'd much rather it be something like this version.

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Dark-tenshi said:

Spidy`s chaingun can be countered with ease by using the same method as in DOOM1/2.It should have another attack like splash damge gun (BFG or rocket launcher).For example,if a player hide behind the some certain point (Wall,Large rock,Tower etc..),Spidy will use this kind of attack to do the damage.This will force the player to keep changing where he can be hided.

Good god man, sounds like QUake 2. (Tat thing had two BFGs, railgun and what? chaingun weak though.)

THat's it. I'm making my own version of Dis.

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DOOM Anomaly said:

Correction, a Spider MasterMind has a SuperChainGun, not just a Chaingun like em Commando's do. So i dont see a problem with The Mastermind having one.


Yeah, it's called a superchaingun, but think back on how each one acts in the game... I never noticed a difference, except its easier to kill the commando. But the spider should still have a more powerful weapon.

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The_Aeromaster said:

Yeah, it's called a superchaingun, but think back on how each one acts in the game... I never noticed a difference, except its easier to kill the commando. But the spider should still have a more powerful weapon.

I noticed something, The Spider Mastermind hurt a heck of a lot more faster than a Commando did. Then again, could just be those magic cookies I eat... :D

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The_Aeromaster said:

Yeah, it's called a superchaingun, but think back on how each one acts in the game... I never noticed a difference, except its easier to kill the commando. But the spider should still have a more powerful weapon.

A super chaingun in Doom 3 could easily be a lot more powerful than in the old Doom. Consider that the regular D3 commando chaingun has a much higher firing rate than it had in Doom. Add slightly explosive shells (not shotgun shells) to a chaingun that fires at the same high rate of fire as the other D3 chaingun and you have yourself a really deadly weapon that you would rather not get in the way of.

Think about it, it could drop your health from 200+200 armour to zero in a matter of seconds if you allowed it to hit you.

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Ichor said:

If the Icon of Sin did make it in Doom 3, I'd much rather it be something like this version.


Hey! nice idea for a final boss.....the big brother of the cyber demon

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Hicks said:

Hey! nice idea for a final boss.....the big brother of the cyber demon


Just played Serious Sam, the end game boss is like that, like a gigantic version of a Cyberdemon.

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