.MID the way id did - Doom 2 Soundtrack Replacement [RELEASED]

[Cammy]

Glad to see this project coming together at last - not much longer to go now, and you guys all have great work to show! Like Doomkid said, I would still like to try building something off of Joe's base - I think with some cleanup and direction it could be used as a more solid launchpad than one might expect.

 

I'm gonna try and solve the two-intermission-theme dilemma, because I think @Bucket's take better suits the intermission formula. I do like the melody and ideas presented by @Gustavo6046's intermission theme, though - this might sound pretty odd but it actually aligns rather closely with the direction I was going to try to take a remade Joe MAP11 midi in. I'd hate for the work to go completely unused, so Gustavo, would you mind if I incorporate Just Another Day into the completed work? (This is, of course, contingent upon Joe being alright with me remaking his midi in the first place.)

 

If this was all to go through then the only slots left incomplete would be MAP06, MAP15, MAP24, MAP28, MAP31, and the text screen. Of those, 06 and 31 are up to Peccatum to finish, and Doomkid has the text screen theme and 15's extension under control himself, being the project lead and all. Since Roofi requested his midi be removed, 24 has completely opened up, which I imagine Bucket would be interested in. I just asked STILES in DMs about how his 28 progress is going.

 

As an aside, @Roofi, thank you for contributing. Learning how to compose is an uphill battle, but the honest effort you put forward to contribute is genuinely the kind of energy that keeps communities alive. If you've taken an interest in music, I'd encourage you to keep writing it! You never know where you might end up.

[Doomkid]

Today has been a day of good submissions and lots of updates, thanks to everyone involved.

@Mr. Freeze, the levels seem to mesh well with the other tracks, so I'd say they're totally fine as-is - really good MIDIs.

@CammyBanana, Joe gave permission for his track to be remixed, so have at it!

@Bucket, really liking both of these tracks, well done.

 

Here's what we have so far:

 

01 ✅ Lippeth - Dear Onion

02 ✅ Alfonzo - En el Salon

03 ✅ Plums - Shotdown

04 ✅ Mr. Freeze - Julian's Fragging Again

05 ✅ Lippeth - Coliformication

06 ⬜ Peccatum Mihzamiz - Imperator Mens Aranea (just need midi file)

07 ✅ Viscra Maelstrom - This Is My Boomstick

08 ✅ Doomkid - Nuisances Unknown

09 ✅ DCG Retrowave - Into Retrowave City
10 ✅ Doomkid - Whipped & Chained

11 ⬜ Joe Ilya - Pollution (T.B.R. by CammyBanana)

12 ✅ Alfonzo - Evil on Parade

13 ✅ Bucket - SOON

14 ✅ CammyBanana - Five Iron

15 ⬜ LazyGecko - untitled (I still need to add a loop/solo)

16 ✅ TrialD - Data Track

17 ✅ STILES - This One's for Daisy

18 ✅ Bucket - Lair of The Bitchmaker

19 ✅ Lippeth - Behold, a God Who Bleeds

20 ✅ CammyBanana - Boston Cream Pie

21 ✅ decino - Braachsel

22 ✅ MegaSphere - NM100S Pistol Start or Else

23 ✅ Viscra Maelstrom - Nukaland

24 ⬜ (currently unclaimed, but I'd love to use John Doom by @Jimmy and @Dragonfly here if it's cool?)

25 ✅ Mr. Freeze - They're Here

26 ✅ Bucket - Arch-Vile on Line 2

27 ✅ Willy W. - Where Weeping Willows Grow Wild

28 ⬜ STILES - untitled

29 ✅ Doomkid & Lippeth - Wondering...

30 ✅ ZeMystic - Echoes

31 ⬜ Peccatum Mihzamiz - untitled (just need midi file)

32 ✅ CammyBanana - Suplex the Stars

TTL ✅ Doomkid - Faux Intro

INT1 ❓ Just Another Day by Gustavo

INT2 ❓ Untitled is Still Technically a Title by Bucket

STORY ⬜ Doomkid - untitled I haven't made jack shit of value to take this slot, so perhaps one of the two intermission themes can be used?

EXTRA ✅ Gustavo - Ring of Gravity

 

Where we stand so far:

 

Just Another Day by Gustavo could be used for the Story music, then literally all we would need is the remix of Joe's track, the extension of LazyGecko's track, and the MIDI files from Peccatum Mihzamiz and STILES and bam, this thing will be done! There's even the spare Ring of Gravity MIDI that could be the theme of idmap01.

 

Gustavo, with Just Another Day, could I have your permission to shift the calliope and bass tracks down by 1 octave? They still sound very musically pleasing but fit in better with the mood of the rest of the pack this way as well. Just let me know if it's OK.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Doomkid

[Doomkid]

Okay, so I've done this totally without your permission @Gustavo6046, and if you don't like it that's totally fine, but it's a suggested remix by me that I think keeps the soul of your track alive while bringing it more in line with the mood of the rest of the pack.

 

Here it is: Gustavo6046-Just Another Day Remixed.zip

 

If you don't want me to use this, or you want to make you own alterations, just let me know.

[wallabra]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Okay, so I've done this totally without your permission @Gustavo6046, and if you don't like it that's totally fine, but it's a suggested remix by me that I think keeps the soul of your track alive while bringing it more in line with the mood of the rest of the pack.

 

Here it is: Gustavo6046-Just Another Day Remixed.zip

 

If you don't want me to use this, or you want to make you own alterations, just let me know.

 

Hey, don't sweat it! You can totally change it all you want. Heck, switch the bass with raging elephants in heat if you feel like it for some weird reason.

 

The intro does sound a bit dissonant, although it does tend to be finnicky to work with. I might touch it up if you're fine with that, see if I can make it work even better.

[Cammy]

Thanks for the heads-up - I'll get started on the Joe remake as soon as I can! Should be done and dusted in just a couple days.

[Doomkid]

10 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

The intro does sound a bit dissonant, although it does tend to be finnicky to work with. I might touch it up if you're fine with that, see if I can make it work even better.

Sure, that’s totally fine by me!

[Varis Alpha]

21 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

I gave it a listen, it sounds pretty interesting! I vaguely remember the guitar lead sounding a bit off, maybe clashing a bit with the rest of the song, but it's probably a soundfont thing; it's hard to make a track work across many SF2's.

 

In fact, it seems to sound a lot more balanced when I use eawpats.sf2 than if I use SC-55.sf2. Interesting :o

 

As for the song itself, I like the melodic progression here. It's pretty neat, and really gives off this feel of disheartened jeopardy. In fact, it's a bit, uhm, "too good", if you get it, for Doom 2 standards, if I'm being honest to my own thoughts, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I really like the way you handle percussion here, too - the build-ups are done particularly well! Overall I really like, it's 'soundtrackier' than Doom's music, but if you know me (and how I like Unreal music) you know that's a big, big plus in my book :)

 

 

 

i guess the lead sounding off might be due to the dissonant harmony that gets introduced in the track. i wanted to give the track some sense of dread to go along with the ever present threat of nukage barrels you have to navigate through or else risk dying. if it's too overbearing i could try and make a less dissonant harmony for the guitars. i make all my MIDIs with the GM soundfont in mind, so it should sound good with the SC 55 as well, although i recall the guitars in SC 55 having a different type of sound to it so maybe it could be that.

 

i agree that the track is a bit too varied in progression compared to the very laid-back and rather repetitious nature of the original soundtrack. my mindset when making this was a bit off-cuff on the rules laid out and i ended up making it more in my own style than imitating Bobby's style (the basis of the guitar lead comes from a really, really old MIDI i made, in fact). i still tried to keep the composition simple at least, with only 4 instruments as a means to rein it in some (Bye Bye American Pie has 5 in it i believe). i think it worked out even though it went a bit off the rails.

[wallabra]

I don't think your track has too much dissonance, the harmony works alright. I think it's more of an instrument balance thing. Does your editor allow shaping the volume over time of your tracks? Or maybe it stands out too much, what could help is lowering it a little bit when the lead guitar is solo-ing, or maybe shift it down an octave. I know it's meant to stand out, but it's also important to follow a "curve" of intensity, like especially if you're going to have sections in your song with different textures (or densities thereof), you want to make the denser parts stand out a tad more. :)

[Doomkid]

If you want to do any further tweaking Viscra Maelstrom then feel free, personally I like the slightly discordant aspects and varied progression. If you want to do anything such a shaping track volumes over time feel free, but by no means obligated.

[Mr. Freeze]

I'd be happy to give it a go if you want me to edit it. 

[Dragonfly]

On 2/23/2021 at 3:28 AM, Doomkid said:

offered to take the skeleton of Joe's track and flash it out into a full and proper song

 

With all due respect, what does that even mean? This is a quirky, offbeat, dissonant mess. Nothing about it even offers a skeleton? See below sekaiju preview of Joe's midi.

 

Also I feel if someone is going to take on the task of having an off-kilter uneasy feeling akin to joe's midi, it should be used in map24. The chasm is to doom maps what dissonant randomness is to music - it goes against conventions but some people still like it.

 

To solidify what I mean - go play MAP11 with Joe's midi as-is. It feels so, so much like a joke when used here. Now go play MAP24. It.... kinda sorta works here.

 

I apologise for the seemingly hostile nature of this post but come on man!

 

Edit/addendum: Also, this is MIDTWID. Not a single thing about this midi, except the fact it's midi format, fits the TWID criteria.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Dragonfly

[VoanHead]

I kinda agree with Dragonfly a bit on this not sounding TWID...

 

...but these tracks slap tho.

[Dragonfly]

I was only referring to Joe's submission. Though some others aren't very "TWID" per se, they certainly qualify a lot more than the aforementioned track.

 

Spoiler

If we were to do it "TWID", we could just remake a bunch of 80's metal and call it a day; copyright be damned.

 

[ZeMystic]

I know this project is basically full, but I also wanted to throw up a midi for any unexpected circumstances that I also made to be more twid style a while back before the project started and recently came across from my old files. I fixed it up and uploaded it here: The Medicine Man Creeps

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by ZeMystic

[Bucket]

17 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

Edit/addendum: Also, this is MIDTWID. Not a single thing about this midi, except the fact it's midi format, fits the TWID criteria.

 

OK but we could say the same about half a dozen tracks in this project. They're very well done and musically dense and have many interesting chord progressions and time signatures - none of which would ever be found in a Bobby Prince song. As has been said multiple times here, 90% of the Doom soundtrack is 12 bar blues with an extra third/fifth/other harmonic every time it repeats.

 

So where are we drawing the line?

[P41R47]

Well, when Mr.Freeze made his DTWID midipack, i think also using some unused material Romero released, it wasn't well received, dunno why, it was really in line  with Bobby Prince music, and it was exactly what @Dragonfly suggested on the spoiler tag :/

It was a shame that after making it, it wasn't included on the project.

I really liked it.

Edited February 24, 2021 by P41R47

[Varis Alpha]

@Doomkid i made some volume alterations to my map23 submission. i lowered the velocity of the distorted guitar notes where i thought it was applicable (the beginning up until the progression change in the middle, and once more at the keychange during the end), as well as the overdriven guitar during the keychange part as well.

[Bucket]

1 hour ago, P41R47 said:

Well, when Mr.Freeze made his DTWID midipack, i think also using some unused material Romero released, it wasn't well received, dunno why, it was really in line  with Bobby Prince music, and it was exactly what @Dragonfly suggested on the spoiler tag :/

It was a shame that after making it, it wasn't included on the project.

I really liked it.

 

There's an issue with perceived quality, to be sure, and a bit of a nostalgia effect. The Devilution team split up and an entire megaWAD's worth of levels were thrown out for only barely resembling the original TNT, resulting in a finished product that... only barely resembles the original TNT.

 

On the other hand, JDoyle didn't really constrain himself to the style of the original. Who would tell him his contribution doesn't fit TNT2? So we come back to the question of where exactly we draw the line.

[Cammy]

It's an interesting discussion for sure - there are songs in here that could have easily been slipped into the original Doom soundtrack without anyone noticing, and there are songs in here (like all of mine, I admit) that are pretty much just their own musical compositions with relatively scant influence from Prince's work. Whether that constitutes a failure, though, is from my point of view a matter so subjective it's not really meaningfully discussable - because even if we were to agree that some songs here weren't Doomy enough, I doubt anybody here would come up with the same list of songs that are and aren't appropriate.

 

I think it's rather late to try and kick everything we've made into line - whether it's Prince-y or not, I believe what we have here is a good and proper midi pack that will enrich future playthroughs of Doom 2 and give the community a new resource of music, so many other key goals of this project have been realized. And either way, in the future I'm sure we'll do a MID The Way id Did for Ultimate Doom; if enough people turn out believing this project's work didn't adhere to the Doom style closely enough, that could serve as a chance to start on a clean slate and make something more in line with it.

 

As an aside, I'm about 60-70% done with the remake of Joe's midi! It will come no later than tomorrow, and a release late tonight isn't out of the question. I understand the confusion (and perhaps unease) around it, so to clear the water, it's not fair to say I truly used the original midi as a skeleton to build on - more that I saw some ideas buried in there that I thought I could refine, so I started on a clean slate with those ideas in mind. I feel awkward saying this after the conversation has steered so heavily in the direction of whether we did Doom's music justice enough, but it's inspired by Rise of the Triad's more jazzy, upbeat, chord-progression-having style. I hope you guys will end up liking it regardless!

Edited February 25, 2021 by CammyBanana

[P41R47]

58 minutes ago, Bucket said:

 

There's an issue with perceived quality, to be sure, and a bit of a nostalgia effect. The Devilution team split up and an entire megaWAD's worth of levels were thrown out for only barely resembling the original TNT, resulting in a finished product that... only barely resembles the original TNT.

 

On the other hand, JDoyle didn't really constrain himself to the style of the original. Who would tell him his contribution doesn't fit TNT2? So we come back to the question of where exactly we draw the line.

Since you were up there when the struggle arise, you surely know better than me about that.

 

I think the line is to be or not to be... a purist, in this case. A killer, too, but thats for another time :P

DTWID projects aimed for the ''undenied'' charming and quality of the original iwads style and design. This is where que can argue about the perceive quality and the nostalgia effect. Nostalgia effect is a thing i perceive on mapset from around the 2000, or from the first era of mapping. Not at all on mapsets from the recent times. Quality...is a totally subjetive matter and if we had 100 different people on a room, they will say 100 similar but not the same different things.
 

On the other hand, TNT: Revilution, the for the time being only released sequel, only aimed to make maps that could be as atmospheric and subtly detailed like the original, but not advocating for the same design quality and aesthetic style, trying to modernize the gameplay to the new preceived standars of quality of the running times. That applies for the music, too. And probably i'm wrong, but since JDoyle was part of Team TNT, that was also a reason to include it. Obviously the track is neato and its totally deserved to be included.
(now i remember that they kinda kicked out a map by Sverre :/, so no, the track was accepted base on how good it was, not for JDoyle being part of the old team).
Probably when it was still Devilution, the aim was different, then they throw up Kyka, and the rest is histery ;)

 

From a purist stand point, DTWID midipack by Mr:Freeze is really in line with the original set of music. Some may say they are not as good as the original but taste is subjetive.

 

And this MTWID, from a compositing stand point, didn't aimed at all for a nostalgia effect or quality in line with the original. Just making music kinda with the constrains of being 12 bars blues style.

 

The line, most of the time, will be on the eye on the beholder.

If they like it or not, its not probably the artist problem.

Edited February 25, 2021 by P41R47

[Bucket]

At any rate - I'm not sure if we have all the submissions in but I'll toss another one in there. I didn't spend a lot of time on it (even at my pace) so it's just in case there's an opening.

 

"Unstoppified"

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KVZpyksz9-UxTfH3XtaLrKlXobeRfmWW/view?usp=sharing

[Mr. Freeze]

If adhering to Prince's original style is a concern, send your file to me and I can edit it into a version that would be more accurate. I did the soundtrack to DTWID so by this point I have a decent grasp on what makes Bobby's music distinct. 

[Doomkid]

On 2/24/2021 at 3:28 PM, Dragonfly said:

With all due respect, what does that even mean? This is a quirky, offbeat, dissonant mess. Nothing about it even offers a skeleton? See below sekaiju preview of Joe's midi.

I’m not sure which version Cammy is using as a basis, but despite being essentially the same thing, Joe’s earlier submission was actually less dissonant.. It was still ultra basic, but it was all at least in key. The new version was altered to make it more off key and dissonant and.. bad sounding. I was planning to use the better sounding original as a basis for remixing, but later CammyBanana offered to do the same (or at the very least use it as lite inspiration), and knowing what a brilliant musician Cammy is all I could say was “sure, have at it!”.

 

I think an older zip may still be somewhere in this thread that has the original version. If you can be bothered, you can compare them side by side to see that the original at least had a cute little ambient bassline!

[Cammy]

Alright, here we are!! Sorry to keep you waiting. I did indeed look to the older version of the song from the 25-mid zip for inspiration more than the recent update - I essentially ended up building a new song using the bassline he laid down there, just with the tempo upped a couple notches. I'm pretty pleased with how this came out, and after a quick playthrough of MAP11 with the song added into the wad, I feel like it fits pretty well!! Hope you guys enjoy it too.

Concocting Erinon's Milkshake.zip

[Mr.Rocket]

Man i should bust out some drums for you guys, I just haven't got around to it I guess....

Considering they're not digital, I remember a wav to midi program, what was it midisynth, or something?

 

Anyway Rock'n it on the Harman Kardon man. ;)

 

 

[Doomkid]

The Donkey Kong Country vibe is so heavy in this one, CammyBanana! I love it. I'll compile what's here into a pre-release beta wad soon, I think we're just shy of the finish line!

[Diabolución]

I think the project would need another eerie MIDI for MAP24, probably. In my view, neither DF-JIMMY-JohnDoom.mid nor unstop.mid fits the mood of MAP24.

[Dragonfly]

Couldn't agree more.

[Jark]

Excellent, more midis in the classical sense. I can't get enough and always want more!

 

I do hope these will be available to use in the future once the pack in compiled? Sounds good what you have so far!

[AWP_LONERT]

how do i make a midi though