Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Gerolf

Are there really a lot of people that think all the Id IPs should be tied together to D2016/DE?

Recommended Posts

Every social media post I see from Id, Bethesda, or the Doom Eternal page itself, there are a lot of people commenting about how they want any new Quake and Wolfenstein games to be tied together into the same universe as Doom 2016/Doom Eternal and even more people liking and responding to those types of comments. Is this just a small group who share this opinion, or are there people here who also share the same view? 
 

I just don’t get it myself. Is there something wrong with having Doom be Doom, and Quake be Quake for example? Am I missing something? Or, are more people in agreement that these franchises should stay separate?

Share this post


Link to post

Well they have been loosely tied from the very beginning, especially Doom 2 (Wolfenstein and Keen) and Quake 3 Arena. Since crossovers became the next big thing (Arrowverse, Avengers) the audience demands an id crossover too.

 

Personally I prefer Quake being Quake and Doom being Doom. They have a different tonality, scope and topic.

Share this post


Link to post

Merging the series all together like what Marvel has done takes away from the uniqueness of each series. If there was a reason for them to all be together like Q3 Arena, then that’s one thing, but to merge all the lore and characters as being one massive world is just sort of silly to me. These are action FPS games, not open world fantasy RPG games. 

Share this post


Link to post

There's probably too many examples of times id games referenced or even shared something between one another and most of those times are obscure pieces of trivia that i think even MarphyBlack might not be aware of.

And even if you studied everything, you'll realize a lot of it doesn't make sense or logic, but then again, that was never the point behind the identities of most id games.

 

In some ways, a game can be interesting for barely having a story or having one that's just nonsense and i even think classic Doom's identity is like a brush and canvas: there's something exploitable about it that resulted in a lot of mods and fanbase creativity.

 

I feel like the idea of a Doom universe or "idverse" is not only a result of story in games being a more noticeable thing (specially with games nowadays aping Hollywood) but also the popularization/commercialization of nerd/geek culture, specially with the MCU and Disney but even before that, probably since 2007 or when Big Bang Theory was big enough to make nerds "cool".

 

Stuff like Smash and Marvel vs Capcom work mostly because they were more about celebrating the franchises than straight up implying they were all connected.

We also had Samsara and MetaDoom, which worked because of the amount of details and obscure material added in and i doubt that could have worked officially unless id managed to get through a lot of copyright/license barriers and didn't worry much whether or not something unknown was "marketable".

 

Now, people want Doomguy and Master Chief to officially cross pathes when one could have tried to make a GZDoom mod out of the concept, in case the official product either never happens or does but with a monkey's paw.

Share this post


Link to post

The Eternal Arena (as featured in Quake 3 Arena and Quake Champions) basically already does this, so it's not like id doesn't have form in tying all its IPs together. But so far the individual titles themselves have remained more or less separate. 

Share this post


Link to post

I want Wolfenstein, Doom, and Quake to remain separate.

 

However, Shadow Knights, Hovertank 3D, Catacomb 3D, Dangerous Dave, Rescue Rover, and Orcs & Elves are definitely in the same universe, obviously.

 

The big question is, in which universe is Tiles of the Dragon set? At the moment I believe it's in the Rage universe, but it might be Commander Keen instead. Not 100% sure yet which it is, but it's definitely one of the two, as I have very scientifically rejected every other possibility.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't mind whether the games exist in separate universes or not. As long as the games are good, I'm happy.

Share this post


Link to post

I would be cool with it, but I wouldn't try to force it.  If they did a Quake 1 reboot and it had some references to Doom 2016/Eternal that would be just fine.

Share this post


Link to post

Not really, that seems to be a social media phenomenon mostly.

 

I'm okay with tying Wolf with Doom though, maybe Quake too, but anything more than that makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Share this post


Link to post

If it's was refered in the past with various games and spin-off's and people was happy, why not?

For me that would be a plus, but it's not something that if they have or not will make the game worth.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Gerolf said:

Every social media post I see from Id, Bethesda, or the Doom Eternal page itself, there are a lot of people commenting about how they want any new Quake and Wolfenstein games to be tied together into the same universe as Doom 2016/Doom Eternal and even more people liking and responding to those types of comments. Is this just a small group who share this opinion, or are there people here who also share the same view? 
 

I just don’t get it myself. Is there something wrong with having Doom be Doom, and Quake be Quake for example? Am I missing something? Or, are more people in agreement that these franchises should stay separate?

Maybe ITS the hurr Durr doom rip and tear  youth squad

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, whatup876 said:

There's probably too many examples of times id games referenced or even shared something between one another and most of those times are obscure pieces of trivia that i think even MarphyBlack might not be aware of.

And even if you studied everything, you'll realize a lot of it doesn't make sense or logic, but then again, that was never the point behind the identities of most id games.

 

In some ways, a game can be interesting for barely having a story or having one that's just nonsense and i even think classic Doom's identity is like a brush and canvas: there's something exploitable about it that resulted in a lot of mods and fanbase creativity.

 

I feel like the idea of a Doom universe or "idverse" is not only a result of story in games being a more noticeable thing (specially with games nowadays aping Hollywood) but also the popularization/commercialization of nerd/geek culture, specially with the MCU and Disney but even before that, probably since 2007 or when Big Bang Theory was big enough to make nerds "cool".

 

Stuff like Smash and Marvel vs Capcom work mostly because they were more about celebrating the franchises than straight up implying they were all connected.

We also had Samsara and MetaDoom, which worked because of the amount of details and obscure material added in and i doubt that could have worked officially unless id managed to get through a lot of copyright/license barriers and didn't worry much whether or not something unknown was "marketable".

 

Now, people want Doomguy and Master Chief to officially cross pathes when one could have tried to make a GZDoom mod out of the concept, in case the official product either never happens or does but with a monkey's paw.

A GZDoom  halo mod would be better yes

 

So Many cool concepts for mods just waiting for the right moment

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, CBM said:

Maybe ITS the hurr Durr doom rip and tear  youth squad 

 

3 minutes ago, CBM said:

A GZDoom  halo mod would be better yes

I feel like a lot of new fans begging for something "epic" could take a look at Doom modding in general and realize that the fanbase was mostly "if we want it, we'll do it" a lot more compared to nowadays.

Same thing with the Doom 64 fan ports and building a second wiki to replace the former Wikia one.

It felt like a fanbase that literally adopted a series and even fought for it.

Even refering to the protagonist as "Doomguy" was an example of it and the same for a portrayal of him that possibly inspired the Slayer. (something specific that feels more direct than the Doom comic)

 

The irony of the phrase "Doom is Eternal" is that it comes from the wrong people and with the wrong context/examples.

I feel like pre-2016 is a better example of Doom being Eternal because the series was officially dormant most of the time, yet it still had a strong fanbase keeping it relevant, with the greatest example being the source port/mod/wad scene.

If you still cared about Doom then, you also cared about the fanbase and its contents as if it were the franchise itself, specially the playable stuff.

Otherwise, a lot of people just sticked to Halo, COD, TF2 etc and it almost felt like there was no middleground between "heh Doom is dead" and "Doom is alive and it's because of us".

Regardless of what you think of Brutal Doom, it at least reminded people that a certain old classic was still supported by its fans.

 

With Doom being relevant again, i wonder how many people even looked at the old games, let one what kept them alive and the general amounts of good content.

The new games are still great and there's nothing wrong with some occasional unfunny memes but i feel like for all the Doot memes, Youtube comments and Isabelle crossovers, people need to see what they missed, they're missing or could miss if they just drop Doom when it stops being trendy.

It makes me wonder if anyone has some "post mortem" plans to make sure Doom still lives and whether or not someone has to carry the multiple mantles and torches.

 

In fact, i wonder if someone even made a video about "the real reasons why the Doom fanbase/modding is awesome and important" or something in that line.

Could even include how Doom fans did an "expanded Doom universe" through mods, mapsets, Realm667 assets and all.

Share this post


Link to post

I mean the plot of Quake 3 (which I believe was the id game that was 100% Carmack creatively) involves people from various universes thrown together to fight to the death, which includes Doomguy, Ranger, Bitterman, and Sarge (implied to be an older BJ Blazckowicz iirc). Civvie's newest video about Heretic also mentioned John Romero implying an extended universe that also featured Heretic, Hexen, and ROTT. We don't have to get into nuDoom's multiverse. 

 

If the creative minds behind Doom as a franchise as whole don't mind an "id multiverse" I don't see why we should ignore their input on it, except for Tim Willits. Fuck Tim Willits.

Edited by mammajamma

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

I mean the plot of Quake 3 (which I believe was the id game that was 100% Carmack creatively) involves people from various universes thrown together to fight to the death, which includes Doomguy, Ranger, Bitterman, and Sarge (implied to be an older BJ Blazckowicz iirc). Civvie's newest video about Heretic also mentioned John Romero implying an extended universe that also featured Heretic, Hexen, and ROTT. We don't have to get into nuDoom's multiverse. 

 

If the creative minds behind Doom as a franchise as whole don't mind an "id multiverse" I don't see why we should ignore their input on it, except for Tim Willits. Fuck Tim Willits.

Tim Willits doesn't work for id anymore FYI

Share this post


Link to post

It's rather ironic that some people have put way more thought and effort into the narrative regarding id Soft's classic games than they ever did 20+ years later and having big serious debates over a self-projected shared canon. The id Boys just made easter egg references like "Dopefish lives" and hanging Commander Keen into their own work for a laugh.

Share this post


Link to post

No and the fact that the Doom Slayer is Doomguy still bothers me. It's just incredibly fan-fictiony and really made me do a physical cringe when I saw that scene. I hope Id doesn't go all in and tie these games together as canon and just lets them be vaguely referential in the future but I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post

I always thought it was cool, the insinuation that Doomguy was a descendant of BJ’s family line, but all the weird connections made after that don’t make much sense to me. For example, the attempts to shoehorn Keen into this universe are ham-fisted. Quake has similar gameplay to Doom but I also would prefer it remain “canonically separate”.

 

Easter eggs are fun, but they’re meant to be 4th wall breaking in-jokes essentially, not canonical. Keen and BJ both being named William strikes me more as a reference than a statement of canon.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

It's rather ironic that some people have put way more thought and effort into the narrative regarding id Soft's classic games than they ever did 20+ years later and having big serious debates over a self-projected shared canon. The id Boys just made easter egg references like "Dopefish lives" and hanging Commander Keen into their own work for a laugh.

I fully agree. 

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, mammajamma said:

Civvie's newest video about Heretic also mentioned John Romero implying an extended universe that also featured Heretic, Hexen, and ROTT.

Romero has been known to make jokes sometimes.

 

No, the triad in Heretic is not the triad in ROTT. The triad in Heretic is the three serpent riders: D'Sparil and his two fellow demon brothers, who would be named in later games. The triad in ROTT is "three large corporations [that] guided Hitler as a puppet". Since D'Sparil is not D'Sparil Inc., Korax is not Korax Corp., and Eidolon is not Eidolon Ltd., they cannot be meant to be the same thing. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd rather they just kept it up with the nods, winks and Easter eggs between their games. If they could then make a new single player game in the theme of the original Quake, that'd be pretty cool as well.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Gez said:

Romero has been known to make jokes sometimes.

 

No, the triad in Heretic is not the triad in ROTT. The triad in Heretic is the three serpent riders: D'Sparil and his two fellow demon brothers, who would be named in later games. The triad in ROTT is "three large corporations [that] guided Hitler as a puppet". Since D'Sparil is not D'Sparil Inc., Korax is not Korax Corp., and Eidolon is not Eidolon Ltd., they cannot be meant to be the same thing. Sorry.

Sometimes jokes have a bit of truth to them. Romero was directly involved in the production of Heretic and Hexen 1, and RoTT started development as a Wolf3D sequel.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, but the three large corporations that puppet-mastered Hitler in the ROTT timeline are still not D'Sparil Inc., Korax Co., and Eidolon Ltd. What's so hard to understand that a word for a group of three, used in two different contexts, refer to two different groups of three?

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Gez said:

I want Wolfenstein, Doom, and Quake to remain separate.

 

However, Shadow Knights, Hovertank 3D, Catacomb 3D, Dangerous Dave, Rescue Rover, and Orcs & Elves are definitely in the same universe, obviously.

 

The big question is, in which universe is Tiles of the Dragon set? At the moment I believe it's in the Rage universe, but it might be Commander Keen instead. Not 100% sure yet which it is, but it's definitely one of the two, as I have very scientifically rejected every other possibility.

 

Rescue Rover!  Now there's a game you don't see much anymore...

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Rescue Rover is freeware now?

Share this post


Link to post

The logic of the "story" in id games is like a dream, sometimes things happen, sometimes they un-happen, sometimes something stupid happens that it isn't relevant to anything, and occasionally the whole thing goes on a different track entirely or poofs into nothing. If that's the kind of canon we're dealing with, you could argue that they already count as merged, into a vague soup of entertaining nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post

One thing is canonicity and using certain designs but i wonder about gameplay aspects if they're still made to thematically fit a game.

Like Doom had Quad Damage in 2016 but it was stylized to fit the sphere-like design power ups instead of the Quake logo, then Eternal gave it a different name.

I kinda would like to see some enemies with abilities as homages to some games, like something with the hurricane/tornado attack from the Heretic Iron Lich, that tries to mimick exactly how it function in Heretic, but the enemy with the abilitiy isn't a giant iron skull. (or it's at least still stylized/design visually differently)

 

I wonder how many people thought the Night Sentinel could also fit Quake.

Share this post


Link to post

i like to think that all of the series take place in different continuities, but the same general multiverse. they aren't necessarily connected in any way besides the originals since all of them have timeline fuckery.

Share this post


Link to post

I am traditionally of the belief that all the universes (Keen, Wolf, Doom, Quake, Stroggiverse, Rage) should remain separate. 

 

Now I can somewhat tolerate Doom and Quake in the same universe, but nothing more than that. Especially Keen has no business in the other id universes. Note that this isn't because I don't like Keen or anything, but only because it is tonally vastly different from other id's universes.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I wonder how many people thought the Night Sentinel could also fit Quake.

Because of their medieval look and armor.

Share this post


Link to post

As others have pointed out, there was always an implied "Id-verse", such as classic iD games ever had strong stories to speak of. Keen was loosely/ comically implied to be tied to Wolf and Doom (even outside of the Doom 2 super-secret level), and I'm pretty sure there were always implications of B.J being an ancestor of Doomguy. 

Now, Quake was a different matter, as was Quake 2, neither of which referenced Doom, Wolf or anything outside of their adventures. Quake 3 was the first Quake to do that, and was more of its own thing anyhow.

Interestingly though, Quake 4 has a reference to some base near or around Deimos that's left kind of dark, IIRC...

Anyhow, I don't really mind, and I think it would be kind of cool to have the Wolf series remain in the Doom timeline at least, as their worlds aren't really contradictory to each other. Quake maybe ought to remain as it is, since there's too much overlap between the legions of Quake and the hordes of Hell. Not that it couldn't work at all, just not sure what the point would be.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×