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HombreSal

Doom 1 and 2 are flawless.

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On 10/23/2020 at 11:06 PM, HombreSal said:

These are the perfect games.

No. There is no perfect game and Doom is no exception.

However, I like Doom 1 more than Doom 2 overall despite of all the "upgrades". Great games are indeed but it's nowhere as close as you can say it's perfect.

On 10/24/2020 at 12:35 AM, Pseudonaut said:

Also, I don't mind infinite height.

I'm sorry but, honestly, fuck that.

I hate it, even if I know damn well that it's how it works on vanilla gameplay.

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I think it's nearly perfect, the only problem I know is design of some maps and minor stuff in their sprites. But hey, it was 90s so I guess the mistakes are mostly forgivable.

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1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

There is no perfect game and Doom is no exception.

But why not? Gotta ask the tough questions here.

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2 hours ago, AinuTheTaken said:

But why not? Gotta ask the tough questions here.

Simple. People can say that it's a perfect game but......there's always the "but this thing happens and don't like it" nitpicky.

That's why there's no perfect game because people want that perfection, not knowing that all games has its imperfections.

 

But that's for another thread or topic.

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What do you mean by 'perfect game'? What other games would you describe as perfect?

 

Even Brood War, Street Fighter 2 and Super Mario Brothers 3 have flaws. Maybe Tetris is perfect?

 

I like the view that Doom has flaws but they are inconsequential.

 

I will argue, however, that Doom, taken as a whole, is absolutely the best videogame ever. But that's a different thing.

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"Man, other than infinite height enemies, blood brightness being too high by default, numerous mapping errors throughout Doom 1 and Doom 2, forced weapon switching in deathmatch, a maximum of 4 simultaneous players, 320x200 resolution being blurry, the irritating MIDI glitch on The Inmost Dens and The Catacombs, that blindingly bright invulnerability effect, invisibility spheres being a detriment 99% of the time, an automap that was passable for 1993 but is nearly worthless these days without mods, the inability to add custom sprites easily in vanilla, the lack of any dedicated deathmatch maps, the lack of splitscreen, and a whole bunch of other aspects I'm not too crazy about, this game is PERFECT!"

 

 

 

(lol it took me time just to think of all these nitpicks.. none of them prevent it from being a fantastic game.)

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It's easy for people to suggest flaws in comparison to how games evolved over time since it's release and how they are today.

 

But for it's time, under the technical limitations of systems and technology of the 386/486 era, it is flawless and nothing about it should have been changed. It was a profound accomplishment and overachievement. A marvel feat that raised the bar for gaming as we know it and set standards as a first of its kind (that are still used in games today). And for this reason, it is historically preserved as being a "flawless masterpiece" and a experience not easily replicated.

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Doom aging like a fine wine is a great analogy I've heard many times, but I would like to take a different approach. Many people consider the Beatles the first heavy metal band, others Led Zeppelin. Most say it's Black Sabbath. Is any song on Black Sabbath's first album "flawless?" (rhetorical question). The name of your thread "Doom 1 and 2 are flawless" probably kicked a knee-jerk reaction in a lot of people, hence the nitpicking in the previous posts. Was Doom (1993) perfect? (another rhetorical question lol). That is a subjective question. I consider episode 1 the seed (or one of the seeds) planted in the ground of the modern FPS: cool graphics, great gameplay, interesting environments blah blah blah. When the seed first sprouted into a short, stubby plants (Ultimate Doom and Doom II), was Doom perfect? Maybe not. What about in 2002, after amazing mods breathed life back into the plant and it grew and grew, keeping the IP relevant 27 years to the present day? One could argue every FPS game (and even more genres) thrive under the beautiful shade of this Doom "tree of life" if you will. So is Doom (1993) perfect? Like I said, it's a subject question. ;)

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Flawless? Hardly. Even Ultimate Doom episdoe one has its issues, even though I regard that as the quality benchmark for techbase maps, as well as non-linear maps.

 

I mean, if we're talking Ultimate DOOM episodes 2-4, as well as DOOM 2 in general, there are a whole bunch of dud maps. Even so, I understand your feeling @HombreSal - without these WADs (and in particular TNT + Plutonia) the community and its products would have taken a lot of years to catch up to the current level of quality.

 

As Civvie11 said: "We probably wouldn't have gotten this good if it weren't for Plutonia." (paraphrase) And in my mind, this holds true for Ultimate DOOM and DOOM 2 as well. But there are shitty instances as well (DOOM 2 MAP21: Nirvana comes to mind).

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"Perfection is boring, it's the imperfections that truly make something unique"

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On 10/24/2020 at 3:06 AM, HombreSal said:

Unless you think of the graphics, which still look good, then that's it. These are the perfect games.

 

Do you agree or am I drunk?

No, you're right. They are flawless. Graphics too.

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Nothing is truely perfect, but Doom is probably one of the closest things to perfect I know :-)

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On 10/23/2020 at 7:08 PM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

maps that are pure trash like Chasm.

Chasm is one of the best maps :P

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29 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Chasm is one of the best maps :P

You're totally right, I recant my statement. And Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is the best racing game ever made. Can we get a wad based on Big Rigs? You can race by riding pinkies. Chasm can be one of the tracks.

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1 minute ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

You're totally right, I recant my statement. And Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is the best racing game ever made. Can we get a wad based on Big Rigs? You can race by riding pinkies. Chasm can be one of the tracks.

Lol, I didn't say Big Rigs is a good game.

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Even though doom community maps far exceed anything in the base game, I've still played the base doom 2 maps more times than any map set. It's not even close.

 

With all of its flaws, doom 2 is an experience for sure. 

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3 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Lol, I didn't say Big Rigs is a good game.

No, you said something much worse. Something that caused my mind to spiral into a dark place, tunneling deeper and deeper, utterly devouring my sanity and sense of being. YOU'RE WINNER.

 

And Big Rigs is objectively the greatest game ever made. You don't know what it's like to live until you have driven a tow truck 999+ miles per hours backwards over a large mountain while your opponents sit there defenseless, so consumed by your power that they can't even find the strength to drive their trucks. YOU'RE WINNER.

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17 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

No, you said something much worse.

Heh, the way you assess things is so funny that I can't even remotely think you're sane at the first place.

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Doom 1 & 2 seemed flawless to me even in 2016, when I did my first complete play through. 

 

I recently finished Plutonia and decided to revisit Doom 1 & 2. Doom 1 was hard for me to enjoy without the SSG and Doom 2 monsters.  Doom 2 was slightly more fun, but nowhere near as  enjoyable as the first time. Plutonia became the new standard for me. Doom 2 pales in comparison, both in level design and challenge.

 

Personally, I don't think Doom 1 and 2 maps have aged well and I don't ever want to replay them. That being said, I would still recommend them to those who want to get into Classic Doom, just so they can learn the ropes and later on move on other commercial releases and community WADs.

Edited by paturn : Grammar

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