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Still sad we had to kill ... (DLC spoiler)

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In Doom 2016 Doomguy found a new ally, maybe even the first and only one he ever had. They supported each other, Vega enhanced the Slayers suit and in the end Vega was even willing to sacrifice himself, but was rescued by the Slayer.

 

In Ancient Gods 1 we get an objective "destroy his life sphere" and that's it :-(

 

I know about the pros (destroying the Dark Lord forever) and cons (no backup) and it was Vegas decision to leave the physical realm and move into a life sphere, but it still feels wrong. He was the Slayers buddy in both new Doom games. I replayed 2016s campaign 3 or 4 times and Eternals even more and I was always happy to hear him.

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Same, Vega was a good companion, and I was hoping to see his partnership with Doomguy continue even after Vega returned as the Father.

 

Though here is an interesting idea I just thought of, what if Doomguy destroyed Vega's life sphere not to harm him but rather protect him. Think about it, since Doomguy was planning on resurrecting the Dark Lord to try and kill him for good, there's a good chance that the Dark Lord might try to do the same to Vega. However, with Vega's life sphere gone, there is no means of resurrecting him back to his physical form, and therefore no means for the Dark Lord to kill him. Just a thought.

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Eh, I don’t think the Slayer really killed VEGA/The Father, rather more that destroying his Life Sphere pretty much made sure he wasn’t able to take a corporeal form. Hell, the Slayer even hesitated when he was about to potentially kill Samur.

 

From what was read in the Codex, even Samur was begging The Father to kill the Dark Lord but the latter refused because he loved one of his creations too much.

 

I think the reason the Slayer ended up destroying the Father’s Life Sphere is because there would be a potential chance of the Father getting in the way of the Slayer killing the Dark Lord and he did so as insurance to make sure he wouldn’t interfere, Samur and the rest of Urdak be damned; almost as if to say in his own particular way “they are no longer your people to save”.

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I’m kinda confused about The Father’s/VEGA’s current state. We hear VEGA in the Holt because we left him there apparently, but he still has some powers, as he teleported Samur away after the final battle.

 

i know the codex says something about their presence being spread throughout the  cosmos or something like this. Is he becoming more of a typical God (like some people believe in today)?

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Just now, Mattatsu said:

Is he becoming more of a typical God (like some people believe in today)?

In the Year One Pass promotional material, he was called the true god of the Doom universe. The lore even says that.

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15 hours ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

Though here is an interesting idea I just thought of, what if Doomguy destroyed Vega's life sphere not to harm him but rather protect him. Think about it, since Doomguy was planning on resurrecting the Dark Lord to try and kill him for good, there's a good chance that the Dark Lord might try to do the same to Vega.

This seems to be the only good reason for destroying the life sphere. According to the codex, Vega feared something similar and therefore asked Samur to hide the sphere: "Should The Father perceive any rising dangers from Jekkad, Samur would be calling to bring The Father's life sphere to a place that none could find it."

 

14 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

I think the reason the Slayer ended up destroying the Father’s Life Sphere is because there would be a potential chance of the Father getting in the way of the Slayer killing the Dark Lord

 

14 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

Agree. The Slayer destroyed the life sphere of The Father/VEGA to make sure he wouldn't become a obstacle to his mission.

That's what I also thought in the beginning, but I don't think it makes sense: At least Vega still has enough power at the end of the DLC to teleport Samur away in front of the Slayer. He could just as well do that with the Slayer before he approaches the Luminarium or (later) the Dark Lord.

 

The situation reminded me a bit of the "trolley problem": to actively kill someone in favor of a larger group. It would have been easy to maintain the "friendship" between Vega/Slayer: What if the Slayer had received a message from Vega after entering the Blood Swamps that the sphere must now be destroyed, and the destruction of the personified Dark Lord is the only way to stop the demons from spreading outside of hell.

 

Nevertheless (or therefore) a very bad feeling remains. Real heroes try to save every good person instead of sacrificing them on the side. Considering what Vega did, the Slayer now seems less of a hero than Vega.

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Look it's the Slayer. Slaying's what he does.

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2 hours ago, Gez said:

Look it's the Slayer. Slaying's what he does.

The original Doomguy was sent to Mars as a punishment for punching his superior officer, who ordered Doomguy to fire upon civilians.

The Slayer in Doom 2016 made a backup without being asked to do so.

The Slayer in DLC1 kills his one and only ally without further notice.

 

The sad thing about Vega is, that it was the first true ally (beside some random characters in Rage and maybe Quake IV, which wasn't from id) in an id game ever. I liked the design of this figure: No annoying chatter, but focused, clear and loyal.

 

After Vega was willing to sacrifice himself in favor of humanity he became (at least for me) a much closer ally. The Slayer and Vega both were willing to face death, just to stop the terror of the forces of Hell. Vega supported the Slayer at each step, unlocking more powers and guiding him through the hell invasion. Then you start the Blood Swamps and suddenly have to kill him.

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21 minutes ago, igg said:

The original Doomguy was sent to Mars as a punishment for punching his superior officer, who ordered Doomguy to fire upon civilians.

The Slayer in Doom 2016 made a backup without being asked to do so.

The Slayer in DLC1 kills his one and only ally without further notice.

 

The sad thing about Vega is, that it was the first true ally (beside some random characters in Rage and maybe Quake IV, which wasn't from id) in an id game ever. I liked the design of this figure: No annoying chatter, but focused, clear and loyal.

 

After Vega was willing to sacrifice himself in favor of humanity he became (at least for me) a much closer ally. The Slayer and Vega both were willing to face death, just to stop the terror of the forces of Hell. Vega supported the Slayer at each step, unlocking more powers and guiding him through the hell invasion. Then you start the Blood Swamps and suddenly have to kill him.

You don’t really kill him though. If anything, the Slayer ensured he can never be killed by shattering the sphere. He’ll still exist the same way he always has in both games, just can never take a physical form.

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Actually, the Slayer seems to fight just for humanity's sake. If he has to destroy The Father's life sphere in order to ensure that objective, he'll do it.

And he didn't even kill The Father. He just prevented Him to be a problem in the future.

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My thinking is that the Slayer saw that giving Samur the Father's lifesphere would just be delivering the universe from one Makyr's hands into anothers. Look at Hayden's actions through both games: unseals the Slayer to contain his F-up, immediately sends him away when its contained. Helps the Slayer take out Khan Makyr and save Earth, immediately goes about recovering his body and trying to secure the father's lifesphere.

 

Hayden and the Khan were rivals, fighting over who got to exploit humanity and in what ways.

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You know, he could also just have taken the Dark Lord's sphere with him and left the Father's life sphere where it was. In fact there were plenty of smaller life spheres around that he didn't destroy.

Nobody is going to get into that place again anyways -- none of the Night Sentinels got in, Samur obviously couldn't take the sphere with him, so who else would?

 

It just feels like out of character edginess just for the hell of it, just to say that "Doomguy literally killed god!!!1" and again, it makes no sense in regards to previous games.

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5 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

You know, he could also just have taken the Dark Lord's sphere with him and left the Father's life sphere where it was. In fact there were plenty of smaller life spheres around that he didn't destroy.

Nobody is going to get into that place again anyways -- none of the Night Sentinels got in, Samur obviously couldn't take the sphere with him, so who else would?

 

It just feels like out of character edginess just for the hell of it, just to say that "Doomguy literally killed god!!!1" and again, it makes no sense in regards to previous games.


Eh, not really; and besides, I have to restate again that the Slayer DID NOT KILL THE FATHER. Not only that, the Slayer only destroyed his Life Sphere as insurance:

 

Namely to ensure that not even The Father will try to impede in the Slayer’s quest to kill the Dark Lord, and also to ensure that The Father himself doesn’t get killed off as he would require a physical form in order to actually die. (And it goes without saying that you need a Life Sphere to take any kind of physical form and to potentially render yourself mortal in the process.)

Besides, it’s pretty much well-documented that The Father had loved the Dark Lord too much to just kill him even when Samur was begging him to do so.

 

As for the smaller Life Spheres, it’s highly likely that they belong to more Seraphim.

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7 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Namely to ensure that not even The Father will try to impede in the Slayer’s quest to kill the Dark Lord, and also to ensure that The Father himself doesn’t get killed off as he would require a physical form in order to actually die.

I don't think Vega can't stop the Slayer anymore. He was able to teleport Samur right in front if the Slayer. I'm pretty sure he could have done the same with the Slayer before entering the Luminarium.

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It could be he destroyed the father life sphere as a sort of insurance should he fail to destroy the dark lord. Who else could replicate the slayer feat to gain access to the sphere? Of course the dark lord. So of the dark lord win he could not kill the father anymore. But if the dark lord win, it's highly unlikely the father would make a difference in his current state.

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14 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

As for the smaller Life Spheres, it’s highly likely that they belong to more Seraphim.

I personally think the smaller life spheres are for lesser Primevals for lesser dimensions - and like the Dark Lord's sphere they may have been taken by the Father for dissent, then hidden away in the Ingmore's Sanctum.

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Btw, I just realized that back in the lore for 2016, it’s mentioned that VEGA is actually an acronym for a top-secret name that I think only Samuel Hayden knew about.

 

Just thought I’d drop it here.

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1 hour ago, Man of Doom said:

Btw, I just realized that back in the lore for 2016, it’s mentioned that VEGA is actually an acronym for a top-secret name that I think only Samuel Hayden knew about.

 

Just thought I’d drop it here.

 

V - Virtual

E - ???

G - God

A - ???

 

That's the best I can come up with so far.

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The lore of this game jumped the shark the second we got that "flashback" of original Doomguy.

That's the second I went "oh fuck, here we go... multiverse bullshit... because a basic, linear storyline that actually makes sense is just TOOO fucking cliche right?"

Doom 2016 had me rivetted to the seat with the story. Eternal's lore completely lost me and the Ancient Gods was just laughable.

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1 hour ago, Doom-X-Machina said:

The lore of this game jumped the shark the second we got that "flashback" of original Doomguy.

That's the second I went "oh fuck, here we go... multiverse bullshit... because a basic, linear storyline that actually makes sense is just TOOO fucking cliche right?"

Doom 2016 had me rivetted to the seat with the story. Eternal's lore completely lost me and the Ancient Gods was just laughable.

 

I don't feel as strong as you about this, but totally agree about this multiverse dribble.

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1 hour ago, Chezza said:

 

I don't feel as strong as you about this, but totally agree about this multiverse dribble.


Don't get me wrong, I love the game. The graphics are stunning, the gameplay is superb (physically tiring after a long session though), the setpieces are brilliant... but the story just spirals into shitsville and the deeper it goes, the more absurd it becomes. Yeah, I know Doom is known for being absurd and has been since the beginning but I just think they could've been a bit less "lets go as nuts with the story/lore as we did with everything else" as they were.
 

In addition now that I'm thinking about it, one point in the story I think they could've done a lot better was The Betrayer. They hint at who he is in D16 and the impression I got was it was the Slayer himself. That HE was the one who betrayed the Sentinels and lost his son to evil and his campaign of destruction against hell was him seeking revenge for being tricked into his son being resurrected as the Icon Of Sin which I thought was an awesome plotpoint... when I found that the Betrayer is another Sentinel entirely and unrelated to the Slayer I was disappointed. That you were cleaning up someone else's mess instead of seeking vengeance for your own...

It is what it is I guess...

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Here's the way I see it:

VEGA/The Father isn't dead dead.

 

We specifically put him back into Urdak at the end of Eternal so he could configure the teleporter. So obviously he can do a little more than absolutely nothing. And as previously mentioned, he teleported the Seraph away from the Slayer at the end of his fight. He can't be put back in his body but the lad is still immortal.

 

So what we know is that the Slayer destroyed the life sphere so that he couldn't be stopped from resurrecting the Dark Lord and then killing him. (Although ironically, so far it seems like the Father both knows about what the Slayer is trying to do and doesn't entirely disapprove. It's like he bonded with him somewhat and understands that he gets things done.) But VEGA, as a conscious entity, still exists. There's nothing stopping us from just plonking in another Holy Flashdrive and pulling his consciousness out, and then putting it back into another man-made computer.

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