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AvadaKedavraWithQuadDamage

Who do you think is the strongest infighting enemy? (poll)

Who do you think is the strongest infighting enemy?  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Strongest infighting enemy?

    • Zombieman
      4
    • Shotgun guy
      0
    • Heavy weapon dude
      16
    • Imp
      0
    • Pinky
      1
    • Spectre
      1
    • Lost soul
      1
    • Cacodemon
      0
    • Hell knight (only melee attack)
      0
    • Baron of hell (only melee attack)
      5
    • Revenant
      6
    • Arachnotron
      4
    • Mancubus
      7
    • Pain elemental
      1
    • Arch-vile
      12
    • SS Nazi
      0
    • Spider mastermind
      8
    • Cyberdemon
      66


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For me, Cyberdemon is the 1st, Pretty self-explanatory, the Cyberdemon is indeed is the strongest enemy in Doom. Ready to kick every demon ass.
 



Mancubus deserves to be the 2nd, he has a wide target but moves slowly, rarely dies from mid-tier demons. I feel like he dosen't deserve to be the 2nd but I've been playing lots of slaughter wads and seen him alot infighting low-tier monsters (particularly Imps and Pinkies) so he kinda deserves being 2nd.

3rd and below can be anything. But i think the Arch-vile earns it.
 

Edited by HitBoi64

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Cyberdemon > SMM > Mancubus > Chaingunner > Revenant mainly for me.

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For the majority of scenarios it's no-brainer the cyberdemon, leaving aside those rare cases when it gets pinned to death in corners. It's the best designed enemy for long endurance against crowds while usually remaining a threat not to ignore. I think the next on the echelon must be the baron followed by arachnotron and mancubus on third place, these last two more prone to be roasted in seconds since they have higher pain chance and tend to call too many monsters that they can't deal with.

 

The SMM sits in her own podium because there's no way to tell how long it'll be alive or how much it'll do, unless it's too obvious. It can shred a cyberdemon at point blank range in seconds, take up to 25 hell knights behind a fence, but ultimately collapse to one lone imp scratching air because that's the easiest to happen as long as both can cross the same space. 

 

An interesting fact, if you make an archvile infight a monster above 500 HP in ZDoom, it's more likely the archvile to get wrecked than to win. 

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Not-fun Fact:

 

If you put SMM and Cyberdemon close to each other, SMM has a way higher chance to win. The distance between Cyberdemon and SMM on Doom 2 Map20 is beneficial to the Cyberdemon so the Cyberdemon can usually win.

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Commandos are probably the best at competing well above their own "weight class." They have a fighting chance against pretty much everything 600 HP and below.

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  1. Cyberdemon - highest HP, fires rockets, low pain chance.  
  2. Baron of Hell - 3rd highest HP and 4th highest damage output, low pain chance. 
  3. Mancubus - high HP, high damage output, high firing rate, big size. (Sometimes the chaingun and the arachnotron plasma also fail to stun them). 
  4. Spider Mastermind - highest damage, rapid fire, second highest HP, but gets stuck very easily. Also the pain chance is higher than you think.
  5. Arachnotron - rapid fire, yet low HP.
  6. Arch-Vile - lowest pain chance, 3rd highest damage, dominates all monsters, but cyberdemons and mastermind. And other monsters don't retaliate. The reason they're this low is their HP, as well as the fact they're the only monster that can commit suicide. (Unless the "suicide bug" occurs.) If you remember, that happened on Tatsurd's Tyson run on Hunted in 2011. (Or maybe it was actually an arch-vile killing another arch-vile.) 
  7. Hell Knight - high damage output, low pain chance. 
  8. Chaingunner - Pretty much underrated in infighting. Still, low HP. 
  9. Revenant - a literal glass cannon, the homing missiles are an asset. 
  10. Cacodemon - they actually have quite a lot of health. 
  11. Shotgunner - Only because of the high attack. 
  12. Imp - At least they know how to attack and hit. Unlike a few monsters below. 
  13. Lost soul - Don't preserve targets, hits often are va banqe. More likely they'll p*** the player off. 
  14. Zombieman - Self explanatory. 
  15. SS-Nazi - I'd rather discount them. 
  16. Pinky and Spectre - their bites rarely reach the actual target. 
  17. Pain Elemental - They summon lost souls, so they basically don't attack. 

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Shouldn't have included obvious pics like the bosses / biggest bullet sponges in the game, honestly. Logically, what else are we supposed to pick?

Excluding the Cyber and Mastermind, in a small room where the monsters will walk to each other until they meet, I'd say the Mancubus is the strongest. Monsters like to get close when infighting, so he can concentrate all 6 of his fireballs on them.

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For a tier list, my guess would be Mancubus > Arachnotron > Archvile (if others were to attack back) > Baron > Hell Knight > Cacodemon > Chaingunner ties with Revenant (Chainie can die in 1 or 2 rockets, but can also get lucky enough to stun the Rev until it's dead) > Pain Elemental > Imp > Shotgunner > Pinky/Spectre > Zombieman. No idea where I'd put the SS, don't think I've ever even seen those guys infight.

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I'd argue the strongest infighting monster would be the Pain Elemental. Since it doesn't do direct damage it cannot be targeted by other enemies even though it is actively attacking them. It will endlessly spawn lost souls until all enemies are dead, and so long as none of those enemies are players the only way it can be killed is through incidental damage either caused by explosions or stray attacks from other monsters.

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I picked the Archvile since, like the Pain Elemental, he can't be targeted by other enemies and if given enough time, can dispose of even the cyberdemon or spider mastermind

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The icon of Sin! That bad boy can one shot anything in the game including cyber demons and spider masterminds if it hits them with the spawn cube!

 

Serious answer is the cyber demon though :-P Ever since “tricks and traps” my go to stat is getting a cybie to shoot a rocket into a cluster of enemies then hiding around the corner until everything is dead :-P

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Since nothing will infight with the archvile, it technically cant die unless the player interferes.

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Archvile is broken tier because he can't be targeted

 

Cyberdemon is the strongest all-around, followed by Mastermind.

 

HWD is the best if we're doing large groups instead of 1v1s.

 

Pinky is stinky tier.

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4 hours ago, N1ck said:

Since nothing will infight with the archvile, it technically cant die unless the player interferes.

They can die from their own splash damage.

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Why are the bosses even on this list? Nothing can compete with any of them without stupid things like melee lock bug or a arachs\chaingunners magically managing to stunlock a mastermind. 

 

For actual monsters (Except arch-vile and Pain Elemental because they are cheaters):

1)Baron : Most consistent monster. Can get killed sometimes by mancubi but will almost always kill everyone else.

2)Mancubi : Less consistent than Baron if he gets stunlocked, but if he starts firing he'll pretty much always win.

3)Arachnotron : If it starts attacking first even a baron is lucky to survive. Most of the time it will never get a projectile off.

4)Hell knight \ Caco \ Revenant : All these stupid monsters do the same in infights. Hell knight has a slight edge because of tankiness and lower pain but the others have better attack speed which helps vs some monsters.

5)Chaingunner : Most of the time he'll get slapped to death since monsters are tankier than doomguy. But everything under him is trash at infights anyway..

6)Pinky : Can kill the monsters below it just by sheer willpower, Will still get fucked in melee by nonstop stunlock by imps sometimes. Nightmare pinky can kill chaingunner and revenant. 

7)Imp \ Shotgunner : Both are horrible infighters, shotgunner can nuke imp so he is slightly higher.

8)Zombieman : Please don't hurt me.

 

Lost soul can kill everything below chaingunner.. Except it always forgets target and goes for Doom guy.. So all it can actually defeat is zombies it instakills with RNG. Nightmare Lost souls can kill revenants, arachs and cacos. Assumed both monsters start firing on sight instantly, even if it isn't with -fast projectiles.

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8 hours ago, N1ck said:

Since nothing will infight with the archvile, it technically cant die unless the player interferes.

They can still get hit and damaged by others' fire, if they're directly behind the Archvile and you're in front of it.

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Cyber demon smacks basically every other monster. Only the mastermind has any chance, and if "Gotcha!" taught me anything it's that the cyber still wins most of the time.

 

On a term of pure combat usefulness though, I'd say the Archie. Super strong attack. Cant be targeted. And most importantly, he cant rez enemies or blast your ass sky high while he is occupied with some other target. So I almost always try to get them to infight if I can, gives me a little breathing room for a while.

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Archvile strength: 

 

The (regular) archvile is weaker than the cyberdemon as an infighter, and by a lot. Its inability to be targetted doesn't make it broken because it will eventually succumb to self-splash as long as it can move next to its target. So it "loses" to a cyb one-on-one and can only clear out so many mid-tiers -- and it beats mid-tiers relatively slowly in comparison. The cyberdemon meanwhile can clear out whole rooms for you, getting in crazy chains where splash keeps monsters mad at it and keeps the cycle going. 

 

Since someone mentioned that, if the archvile could be targetted, it is below the mancubi, arachnotron, and baron. Those all beat it one-on-one on a flat playing field.

 

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Can't just declare a winner since it always depends on the situation. A Cyberdemon can lose to a single Cacodemon, given that the arena is big enough and the Caco gets knocked back in mid-air just right.

 

Heavy Weapon Dude sucks at long ranges but can kill pretty much everything with 30%+ pain chance at point blank.

 

Cyberdemon will probably come out as the most consistent winner but that doesn't mean there are no scenarios where he will lose. You put the enemies on even ground, he will win but luckily, Doom is not Wolf 3D :P

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15 hours ago, Juza said:

Shouldn't have included obvious pics like the bosses / biggest bullet sponges in the game, honestly.

No, there's no need for obvious pics, there's already a playthrough video which demonstrates the Cybie vs SMM fight.
 

15 hours ago, Juza said:

 Logically, what else are we supposed to pick?

I don't understand you, I listed every enemy that can attack.
I assume that you mean every enemy's infighting strongness is based on his own tier? That's reasonably not true.

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The Cyberdemon. He has no problems accidentally starting a war. Chaingunners with their signature grins are pretty effective too and they can take down a healthy fat mancubus at close range.

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theres a special exception in the games code so enemys cant retaliate against the archvile and archvile also has no targeting threshold wich means if he gets attacked while hes doing devil magics he will immediatly switch targets the only way to get other monsters to fight back against him is by placing down friendlie enemys in doom builder and placing down hostile archviles this is exact proof that the archvile will win every infight no matter how long it takes he can even finish off a cyberdemon for you since the code makes it so the cyberdemon cant attack the archvile

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3 hours ago, ‹rd› said:

Since someone mentioned that, if the archvile could be targetted, it is below the mancubi, arachnotron, and baron. Those all beat it one-on-one on a flat playing field.

 

The reason why I mentioned it was purely mathematical. The damage output of all those is very big and the arch-vile doesn't have as much HP as you think, even if the amount is amongst the highest in the game. Another reason is that their attack is slow, while the other three attack in rapid successions. 

 

58 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

theres a special exception in the games code so enemys cant retaliate against the archvile

 

The reason for it is because the splash damage of the attack hurts everything around the arch-vile, especially if the player dodges it. (And that's how arc-viles can also commit suicide.) If they were targetable, then the monsters would prefer to attack the arch-vile if not hit first by the player. Fitting, since arch-viles anyways are the top priority target in a battle for obvious reasons. So maybe John Romero and John Carmack decided it so on purpose. 

 

Forgot to mention - even in regular Doom settings a player could also get monsters to attack arch-viles. But you have to be a very big micro nerd like Decino to do so. It's in his videos where I have seen mancubi pounding arch-viles to death. 

Edited by spd7693 : Forgot to mention

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