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kraflab

dsda-doom source port [v0.24.3]

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41 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Yeah but for demos doesn't complevel 11 force default settings for those options independent of what is set in the menu? So that shouldn't be a problem.

Honestly, IDK. I've never recorded MBF demos so I can't give you a profesional explanation, but I remember @kraflab pointing that out somewhere.

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On 7/18/2021 at 4:59 AM, kraflab said:

Those settings don't take effect unless you're in complevel 11 or higher. Tweaking them as a user basically goes against the philosophy of dsda-doom and isn't allowed for speedrunning anyway, so I removed them all. They can still be edited by wad authors though, which is their main function.

Sorry for the quote and double comment, but here it is

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2 hours ago, Gregor said:

i prefer playing on complevel 2 but i don't want monsters to get stuck on doortracks or Arch-Viles to create ghost monsters.

This is kind of a contradiction. If you change those settings then you aren't playing on complevel 2 anymore. If you want to change the default values, you can create an options lump that changes the default behaviour and add it to your autoload folder (or just include it in your command / launcher). More details on that here: https://github.com/kraflab/mbf21/blob/master/docs/options.md. You could copy the example there for doom 2 and change the couple settings you want (and play on complevel 21). The next release of dsda-doom will automatically detect known maps that are broken on higher complevels and update the compatibility options as needed (e.g., to fix the stairs on tnt map 30). That might appeal to you as well.

 

Incidentally, if anyone knows a map that is broken in default compatibility but can be fixed with compatibility options, and it isn't on this list, please let me know:

eternal 25
doomsday of uac e1m8
hr 19, 26
phobos 03
h2p 14, 22
icarus 24
pl2 32
requiem 23
the waterfront 01
gather2 05
darkside 01
reverie 18
projx 14
archie 01
seej 01
6pack2 02
squadron 417 21
mayhem 2013 05
imps are ghost gods 01
confinement 31
conf256b 07, 12
sunlust 30
tnt 30

Edit: btw, if you didn't follow the development of complevel 21, you might not realize that it is closer to the old complevels in some ways - monster ledge behaviour and infighting are more like vanilla than, e.g., boom / mbf.

Edited by kraflab

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2 hours ago, MechanicalSanity said:

Hi, I recently found out about this source port, and I have to say that it is really neat! But there is one thing I want to criticize, and that is the fact that this source port does not emulate sc-55 by default or use the drivers or whatever. I was able to get that SC-55 sound by watching a video about this port specifically. Here is a link to the video, and I timestamped it so that you can see what I am talking about: 

 

 

Please add this in by default! Thank you!

 

 

 

What you saw in the video is simply the sf2 soundfont, with the samples taken from the SC-55 rom, which is loaded into Fluidsynth (integrated in Prboom-plus/DSDA-Doom). This isn't an emulator, and it will not sound the same as the SC-55.
Currently there is no SC-55 emulator, the best you can find is Roland's Sound Canvas VA, a Roland SC-8820 emulator with SC-55 instrument support but it is not 100% accurate and costs I think €120, but if you search on google you will find it.
Otherwise on Windows there is Microsoft GS Wavetable, a software synthesizer developed with Roland in 1996. This uses low quality samples of the Roland SC-55/SC-88, it sounds much worse than the Sound Canvas VA.

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1 minute ago, Kappa971 said:

What you saw in the video is simply the sf2 soundfont, with the samples taken from the SC-55 rom, which is loaded into Fluidsynth (integrated in Prboom-plus/DSDA-Doom). This isn't an emulator, and it will not sound the same as the SC-55.
Currently there is no SC-55 emulator, the best you can find is Roland's Sound Canvas VA, a Roland SC-8820 emulator with SC-55 instrument support but it is not 100% accurate and costs I think €120, but if you search on google you will find it.
Otherwise on Windows there is Microsoft GS Wavetable, a software synthesizer developed with Roland in 1996. This uses low quality samples of the Roland SC-55/SC-88, it sounds much worse than the Sound Canvas VA.

 

Well, it doesn't have to be emulated. The sound just has to be really close to the original soundtrack. Searching those up on youtube and comparing it to the soundfont I added to the sourceport, they sound really close. Pretty much identical. So I think it should be integrated, or at least packaged with DSAD-Doom

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2 hours ago, MechanicalSanity said:

But there is one thing I want to criticize, and that is the fact that this source port does not emulate sc-55 by default

I don't think the port should make a decision about what sound font a user uses. I don't use the one you linked for instance.

 

The sound font is a user customization basically. It's not a native part of the port.

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13 minutes ago, kraflab said:

I don't think the port should make a decision about what sound font a user uses. I don't use the one you linked for instance.

 

The sound font is a user customization basically. It's not a native part of the port.

well yes. I agree. But, in this case, this is the closest we can get (as far as I can tell) to getting the original intended music on PRBoom Plus and DSDA Doom. At the very least, it would be nice to be able to select it as an option through the menu. 

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It's worth noting that the SC-55 is a proprietary device and its samples are technically under Roland copyright. Best not to get entangled in the potential legal issues. Also, the soundfont recommended in the video is also nearly 10MB, which would more than double the dsda-doom download size. If you really want it, you can get it yourself.

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Here's one if you're interested, and for anyone reading this who wants to give the soundfont a try

 

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4 hours ago, MechanicalSanity said:

 

Well, it doesn't have to be emulated. The sound just has to be really close to the original soundtrack. Searching those up on youtube and comparing it to the soundfont I added to the sourceport, they sound really close. Pretty much identical. So I think it should be integrated, or at least packaged with DSAD-Doom

Even if the OST for the original games might sound nearly identical with that soundfont that doesn't make it the "ideal" choice for Doom in general. Most custom midis that are being created nowadays don't have an actual Roland SC-55 in mind. For instance, the soundtrack for Back to Saturn X I & II was aimed at the Microsoft GS Wavetable sound. It's the intended way to listen to these tracks. And even tracks that weren't made for the default Microsoft MIDI often sound quite a bit more balanced when compared to one of the many SC-55 soundfonts. These fonts were tweaked to sound great with Doom 1 & 2 but with other midis the results are often more variable and less consistent while the Microsoft MIDI is more versatile. Most midis will at least sound good with it while with SC-55 soundfonts it will sound awesome with some specific tracks and others will be somewhat grating to downright ugly. The one that Dwars recommends in his video is no exception. It's ultimately a matter of personal taste, obviously, but suffice to say that even a "perfect" SC-55 soundfont wouldn't necessarily be the Holy Gray of Doom midi either.

Edited by Gregor

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2 hours ago, kraflab said:

If you want to change the default values, you can create an options lump that changes the default behaviour and add it to your autoload folder (or just include it in your command / launcher). More details on that here: https://github.com/kraflab/mbf21/blob/master/docs/options.md. You could copy the example there for doom 2 and change the couple settings you want (and play on complevel 21). The next release of dsda-doom will automatically detect known maps that are broken on higher complevels and update the compatibility options as needed (e.g., to fix the stairs on tnt map 30). That might appeal to you as well.

 

Edit: btw, if you didn't follow the development of complevel 21, you might not realize that it is closer to the old complevels in some ways - monster ledge behaviour and infighting are more like vanilla than, e.g., boom / mbf.

 

Thanx a lot! I didn't know any of that. That might just do it for me. I haven't been keeping up with MBF21. Sounds great. Fingers crossed most big projects from here on will adopt it as their default setting.

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6 hours ago, kraflab said:

If you want to change the default values, you can create an options lump that changes the default behaviour and add it to your autoload folder (or just include it in your command / launcher).

 

I'm glad you mentioned using MBF21 and the options lump for vanilla-like functionality. I was thinking of doing this very thing for regular play to fix some cosmetic stuff like the Ouch Face, Translucency or even demo affecting like the SSG Reload from lower complevels while still ensuring that maps will function as intended. So this automatic compatibility support like GZDoom sounds interesting.

 

I did a quick test with a recent build of DSDA-Doom with TNT MAP30 for comp_stairs. My understanding is that automatic compatibility will only work during casual play and be disabled for demo recording so that only the MBF21 default or a loaded options lump are used. Correct? I'm sure you will explain it very well in the release notes when they come and since this is mostly for Vanilla/Boom maps it shouldn't matter too much because no one should be recording an MBF21 demo on these maps anyway.

Edited by HackNeyed : oops forgot to say SSG Reload affect demos

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@kraflab concerning these defaults in the options lump you posted on Github... It seems that not all PrBoom-Plus comp settings have an equivalent here. Also, not all the descriptions are self-explaining. What would:

comp_falloff

comp_dropoff

comp_ledgeblock

comp_infcheat

comp_floors

comp_mode correspond to in PrBoom-plus? And is there an options to toggle Doom's original linedef trigger model?

 

Sorry to bother you with this but i just want understand so i can use it myself.

Edited by Gregor

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I second to that, I want the sky to become monochrome when grabbing an invulnerability sphere, so it'd be nice to know how to do it

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1 hour ago, Gregor said:

@kraflab concerning these defaults in the options lump you posted on Github... It seems that not all PrBoom-Plus comp settings have an equivalent here. Also, not all the descriptions are self-explaining. What would:

comp_falloff

comp_dropoff

comp_ledgeblock

comp_infcheat

comp_floors

comp_mode correspond to in PrBoom-plus? And is there an options to toggle Doom's original linedef trigger model?

 

Sorry to bother you with this but i just want understand so i can use it myself.

The names are the same as their settings in the PrBoom+ config file. Here are the menu items they correspond to in PrBoom+:

comp_falloff: "Objects don't fall under their own weight"

comp_dropoff: "Some objects never hang over tall ledges"

comp_ledgeblock: N/A (this is new to MBF21)

comp_infcheat: "Powerup cheats are not infinite duration"

comp_floors: "Use exactly Doom's floor motion behavior"

comp_mode: "Use exactly Doom's linedef trigger model"

 

More on comp_ledgeblock from the spec:

Quote
  • comp_ledgeblock:
    • Ledges block ground enemies (default)
    • Exception: movement due to scrolling / pushers / pullers disables comp_ledgeblock for the next xy movement

This stops monsters from getting pushed off cliffs like they do in Boom/MBF.

 

54 minutes ago, Lol 6 said:

I second to that, I want the sky to become monochrome when grabbing an invulnerability sphere, so it'd be nice to know how to do it

Set comp_skymap ("Don't apply invulnerability palette to skies") to 0.

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1 hour ago, Shepardus said:

The names are the same as their settings in the PrBoom+ config file. Here are the menu items they correspond to in PrBoom+:

comp_falloff: "Objects don't fall under their own weight"

comp_dropoff: "Some objects never hang over tall ledges"

comp_ledgeblock: N/A (this is new to MBF21)

comp_infcheat: "Powerup cheats are not infinite duration"

comp_floors: "Use exactly Doom's floor motion behavior"

comp_mode: "Use exactly Doom's linedef trigger model"

 

 

Hmm. But that can't be right... Comp_dropoff is set to 1 in all defaults except MBF21. It's same for Doom2 and Boom. But you can obviously shoot enemies from ledges/pillars in Boom/MBF while the same is not possible in Doom2/UDoom. So this setting shouldn't be set to "1" in all four presets. Yet it is.

 

EDIT: Monsters can't be shot off from ledges when comp_ledgeblock is set to 1. But comp_dropoff doesn't seem to do anything. But if comp_dropoff really stands for "Some objects never hang over tall ledges" then it should govern this behaviour, right?. Is this somehow broken? The option works just fine in PrBoom+.

Edited by Gregor

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The comp options related to ledges are very confusing. The ledgeblock one was added exactly for this purpose you mention, to restore the original behaviour of enemies not getting shot off cliffs and ending up unkillable because they're trapped in a pit :^)

 

Re: HackNeyed, it works just as you mentioned - it only happens when not recording or playing back a demo.

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55 minutes ago, kraflab said:

The comp options related to ledges are very confusing. The ledgeblock one was added exactly for this purpose you mention, to restore the original behaviour of enemies not getting shot off cliffs and ending up unkillable because they're trapped in a pit :^)

 Well, first of all, thank you. But I have to ask... What does comp_dropoff actually do then? And why is it set to 1 in all defaults you posted on Github?

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43 minutes ago, Gregor said:

 Well, first of all, thank you. But I have to ask... What does comp_dropoff actually do then? And why is it set to 1 in all defaults you posted on Github?

The comp_dropoff option shows up in two places in the code. In one of those places, it looks like the point is for enemies near a ledge (higher than the step height) to move away from it (ostensibly, to avoid being knocked off? I can only speculate on the purpose). This effect happens if it equals 0. The second use, from what I can see, allows monsters that are able to drop down from ledges themselves to do so, if it's set to 0. When set to 1 there's a comment in the logic "// don't stand over a dropoff". As far as why the default was 1 and not 0, I could only speculate. I wasn't there :^)

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2 hours ago, kraflab said:

As far as why the default was 1 and not 0, I could only speculate. I wasn't there :^)

 

You're right. Almost forgot that it's all inherited from good ol' MBF and @Lee Killough. So is comp_dropoff overwritten by comp_ledgeblock when using complevel 21? Or is it turned off by DSDA? It doesn't seem to do anything but it does obviously work in PrBoom+ under complevel 11 and up.

Edited by Gregor

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They have different effects, one doesn't overwrite the other (although they do interact in some way at least).

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Doesn't it enable monsters that got, say, frozen by a lowered elevator, to essentially jump down?

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9 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Set comp_skymap ("Don't apply invulnerability palette to skies") to 0.

Thanks :)

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2 hours ago, dew said:

Doesn't it enable monsters that got, say, frozen by a lowered elevator, to essentially jump down?

I think that's comp_falloff.

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May I request a feature to disable cheats from other games? I know I'm probably the only one who wants this but sometimes I accidentally activate Heretic's "kitty" cheat for noclip because my kb-only setup uses IJKL for movement and TY for strafe 😅

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I noticed that if you use OpenGL mode below the monitor's native resolution and while in borderless windowed mode, the screen doesn't scale, staying at the bottom left corner.

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17 hours ago, kraflab said:

The comp options related to ledges are very confusing. The ledgeblock one was added exactly for this purpose you mention, to restore the original behaviour of enemies not getting shot off cliffs and ending up unkillable because they're trapped in a pit :^)

 

I was simply thinking maybe comp_dropoff was kept because it is still a valid option in complevel 11 but not REALLY a part of complevel 21. Testing PRCP.WAD MAP27 with the chaingunners on the pillars and using a small burst of plasma to try and knock them off without killing them seems to show the following.

 

At complevel 21 I can only push them off if comp_ledgeblock 0; comp_dropoff 0 or 1 doesn't seem to matter.

At complevel 11 I can only push them off if comp_dropoff 0; comp_ledgeblock 0 or 1 doesn't seem to matter.

 

I don't know but maybe it should be made clear in the spec.md or something that comp_ledgeblock IS how you get the old MBF comp_dropoff behaviour in MBF21. If that is the case. Obviously WAD makers should test a whole bunch but having some extra helpful information from the start might quell a few headaches.

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39 minutes ago, marver0PS said:

I noticed that if you use OpenGL mode below the monitor's native resolution and while in borderless windowed mode, the screen doesn't scale, staying at the bottom left corner.

This should be fixed in the next release.

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5 minutes ago, HackNeyed said:

At complevel 21 I can only push them off if comp_ledgeblock 0; comp_dropoff 0 or 1 doesn't seem to matter.

At complevel 11 I can only push them off if comp_dropoff 0; comp_ledgeblock 0 or 1 doesn't seem to matter.

You can't set comp_ledgeblock in cl11 because it doesn't exist. With it set to 0 in cl21 it should be the same as mbf (it makes the option nonexistent). Are you sure about that behaviour? It's possible some other code makes the dropoff condition fail as a side effect though.

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1 minute ago, kraflab said:

 Are you sure about that behaviour? It's possible some other code makes the dropoff condition fail as a side effect though.

 I can confirm that. I tested comp_dropoff with a custom map with a Cyberdemon on a platform and setting comp_dropoff to 1 under MBF21 does not keep him from being shot off with a couple of SSG shots; only comp_ledgeblock creates the desired effect. That's why i assumed you turned it off on purpose since comp_ledgeblock takes care of it now in MBF21 but maybe it is just an accidental effect.

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