Brutal DooM with GZDooM - Alterations to MegaWADs

[DJMadMax]

Greetings dear DooM fans,

 

at the moment I'm playing DooM with GZDooM as frontend and Brutal DooM (bd21RC8.pk3).

 

I am planning to play DooM, Sigil, DooM II, TNT, Plutonia and the Hell on Earth Starterpack with Brutal DooM because 1) I really enjoy BD and 2) I already know all of those MegaWADs without the BD-Mod - with the exception of Hell on Earth Starterpack, this one is completely new to me.

 

My question with this is:

How exactly does Brutal DooM alter the WAD files? I mean, how does Brutal DooM know "when" to change something? For example, in the very first DooM Level E1M1 there are already minor changes in the first room with warning lights at the ceiling and a giant burning aircraft standing on the outside field right to the starting position (where the blue armor is).

 

I really enjoy these kinds of alterations because it adds much to the replay value for me - not "only" having the brutal part of BD.

 

I also took a quick look in the first Plutonia level which is also heavily modified in terms of ambience. It's raining outside, there are vines hanging from the walls and so on. This is just great!

 

My question now is:

Which WAD files are actually supported/upgraded this way by Brutal DooM? Is there a list, a changelog or whatever? Unfortunately I couldnt find anything useful about this.

 

Since my version of Brutal DooM is nearly 2 years old by now there is, for example, no alteration to Sigil whatsoever - would this be different with a newer version?

 

Thanks in advance for any information about this :)

[MFG38]

Can't be arsed to download Brutal Doom and confirm this, but my best guess is an ACS script that checks which level is loaded and applies the necessary alterations accordingly. That's one of only a few possible methods without ripping the maps themselves right out of the IWADs and modifying them, but I doubt SgtMark would tread that path. It is a major legal gray area after all.

[Chezza]

Out of topic, but if you're looking to play wads built specifically for Brutal Doom (rather than vanilla wads with BD slapped on), I can link you my one. But it only works for Brutal Doom v2b. Any other version will cause bugs or even break it, as the scripts are very dependent on the resources that version has.

[DJMadMax]

Thx so far, the technical standpoint seems clear after being pointed out by @MFG38 :)

 

@Chezza

I'd fancy both - Brutal DooM features slapped upon already existing WADs and specially built WADs for BD. Since it's no big deal swapping out a BD.pk3 you can of course link me to your maps, I've already downloaded v20bR3.

 

I also tried playing Hell on Earth Starterpack without Brutal DooM just to check out the differences. Ammunition is so scarce even in the first level that I doubt it was ever in the creators mind being played without Brutal DooM ^^

[P41R47]

Brutal Doom comes with an option called ''Map enhancement'' or something along the lines.

What it does, if you had it activated, is alter the IWAD maps to have more details and a more inmersive atmosphere.

These ''Enhanced maps'' can only be played with the IWAD as there is some code that prevent them to be played with other mapsets.

But one can extrat those maps from Brutal Doom for certain, compile them on new wads and have their own ''Brutally enhanced IWAD maps'' :P

ITs quite a grey are, kinda bordering the Illegal, but well...

Also, there is a more advanced version of Hell on Earth Starter pack called ''Extermination Day'', maybe you want to check it out.

2 hours ago, DJMadMax said:

I also tried playing Hell on Earth Starterpack without Brutal DooM just to check out the differences. Ammunition is so scarce even in the first level that I doubt it was ever in the creators mind being played without Brutal DooM ^^

Its mean to be played with Brutal Doom, for sure.

If not, you will reach some point where some actor would not appear at all.

Like a rendition of the Tower of Babel with a new DECORATE monster to fight.

Without Brutal Doom, the monster will not appear... i think.
Maybe its coded inside the HOESP and i didn't notice it :P

[Gez]

Straight from the horse's mouth:

On vendredi 2 octobre 2020 at 7:15 AM, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

About the legal problems of doing it, there is nothing stopping you from doing this. You just won't be allowed to upload it to idgames. Mr Chris used literally all Doom maps from all Doom games to make his popular Maps of Chaos, and as far as I know, Bethesda never tried to throw him in jail for it, despite the fact that it allows you to play literally every doom map from every classic doom game using FreeDoom.


The real question is... should you work on it?
See... in 2015 I started working on a new feature for Brutal Doom called "The Map Enhancement System". Same idea as yours, improving Doom maps by adding new stuff to them. But I wanted to get around the limitation of modifying Doom maps. So how I did it? I wrote about 30,000 lines of DECORATE code to make a system that could read what map has been loaded. 
Yes, I opened every Doom map from the classic games and checked the position of every object, so I could find the X and Y world coordinates of them, feed them into the code, and manually add every new detail through DECORATE code. Spawning them in every specific point of the map. Techbase levels have shinny new textures, the cities of Doom 2 have Terminator-like post-apocalyptic debris, the jungles of Plutonia looks like an actual jungle, and so on.
 
Here is a picture of what it looks like:



How long it took? 3 fucking years.
3 years of my life wasted into a stupid obsession developing an useless feature. Time I regret wasting. Time I should had spent with my family and friends, or working on my own stuff, my own maps, my own games. Before this I had this other stupid idea of a project called "Recurring Nightmares" that I probably spent another year on it.
The system also works with a switch in the options menu, you can turn it off and just play normal Vanilla levels. To my surprise, half of the people who record playthroughs of Brutal Doom disables this feature. Another highlight of how useless it was.

Also there is a golden rule: A polished turd is still a turd. I learned the hard way that no amount of new lights, textures, and cluttering decorations will improve maps like The Chasm or Unruly Evil. There is just no point in trying to save them. They can't be saved.
So  here is my advice: Don't do it. Go make your own stuff. Don't waste a portion of your life working on something this irrelevant. Whatever map you make, no mater how bad it turns out, is still a better idea than trying to polish the game's original maps. At least you can improve your mapping skills through trial and error. But you won't learn anything trying to copy somebody else's work.

[DJMadMax]

Guys, enough of that technical terms, It got covered already in the very first reply I got in this thread.

 

I actually dont want to do it myself. I just wanna know WHICH WADs (ideally MegaWADs, gladly provided by yourselves) actually are improved this way out of the box!

 

So far and as I am aware of, the following (i)WADs are:

DOOM.WAD

DOOM2.WAD

TNT.WAD

PLUTONIA.WAD

 

And as already mentioned the Hell On Earth / Extermination Day-Mappack.

 

Are there ANY other (Mega)WADs that have been out for maybe a couple of years, got infamous throughout the fanbase and got a proper "polish", as SgtMark himself calls it? Or are there any other MegaWADs with Brutal DooM already and packed with those extra stuff only available through Brutal DooM?

 

If the simplest answer is "No", then I can totally live with it. I just dont wanna miss out on anything.

[Korozive]

I used to be hooked on Brutal Doom until EOA came out. Now there is no going back. Absolutely the best way to tear through a Megawad. Justsayin

[Major Arlene]

The simple answer is that no amount of gore and middle finger flipping is going to improve IWAD levels. Play with something like Supercharge instead.

[MFG38]

2 minutes ago, Korozive said:

I used to be hooked on Brutal Doom until EOA came out. Now there is no going back. Absolutely the best way to tear through a Megawad. Justsayin

 

Let's not turn this thread into another "here's my opinion on Brutal Doom" shitshow, please. The whole point of this thread was simply a technical curiosity about how a thing in the mod works, and the OP's question was answered swiftly. There's no need to take it further than that.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

18 minutes ago, DJMadMax said:

Are there ANY other (Mega)WADs that have been out for maybe a couple of years, got infamous throughout the fanbase and got a proper "polish", as SgtMark himself calls it? Or are there any other MegaWADs with Brutal DooM already and packed with those extra stuff only available through Brutal DooM?

Judging by Gez's linked thread to Mark's comments about the map enhancement system, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. As said, you will have to boot up a map editor and do a ton of tinkering and alterations for these impressive visuals to work.

[Major Arlene]

1 minute ago, MFG38 said:

 

Let's not turn this thread into another "here's my opinion on Brutal Doom" shitshow, please. The whole point of this thread was simply a technical curiosity about how a thing in the mod works, and the OP's question was answered swiftly. There's no need to take it further than that.

except he asked if any of the IWADs are actually improved in any way, which is going to come down to subjective taste.

[Biodegradable]

Doom-X-Machina made a map set not too long ago that he recommends using with BD. You could give that a spin:

I'm not aware of any more megaWADs specifically made with BD in mind besides what's already been mentioned. As for the IWADs, all BD does is muck with the textures thanks to its Map Enhancement System and changes demon behaviour. It should also be noted that BD has a habit of breaking maps in terms of progression, causing things to not function properly, so you might find lifts not going up or down or sometimes a door might not open, that sort of thing.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Biodegradable

[Korozive]

43 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

The simple answer is that no amount of gore and middle finger flipping is going to improve IWAD levels. Play with something like Supercharge instead.

I don't think that mod makers are trying to "improve" IWAD levels, just make them more fun. It's all a personal preference as to how you want to play DOOM. 

 

Personally, I think, because there are so many variations of gameplay out there is one of the reasons why this community is still thriving and will continue to thrive.

[Gez]

Regardless of whether you think it's an improvement or not, SM4 said it covered every Doom map from the classic games, which I suppose means doom.wad, doom2.wad, tnt.wad and plutonia.wad. And nothing else.

[D4NUK1]

It's just add decorate stuff on the maps, it's to your perception if you find it more fun or not. They can also alter the way the game it's played, as car dervis on MAP 15 in DOOM 2 may stop you circle strafes.

If anything, i only like to use that with gameplay mods, not a reason to play MAP ENCHAMENT in vainilla.

[Chezza]

@DJMadMaxHere's the direct link https://www.moddb.com/mods/brutal-doom/addons/operation-uac

 

Please read the description in moddb. If you want to unlock all special rooms / full content you can replay in a higher difficulty. There's lots of scripting specifically tailored to Brutal Doom. 9 level wad.

 

Enjoy!

 

[Doomkid]

For whatever it’s worth, most modern wads look beautiful in a way the iwads did not, and are thus not needing of the extra polish. You’ll still be getting the proper experience, you won’t be missing anything. If you like, you can add high resolution textures alongside Brootal Doom while playing, but most wads have custom textures which will clash with the high res ones.