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rd.

Doomworld Fantasy Megawad

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I found this old thread about assembling a fantasy megawad featuring iconic maps from many different megawads, and thought it would be cool to do with the benefit of more years of stuff. I have a similar schema in mind except that instead of voting, I'll use discussion and implied consensus in this thread to choose which maps to pick. 

 

I'll update now and again with maps "currently" in the megawad, and use (or paraphrase) a bit of text from an argument for that map. So by the end, the list will be a readable little thing on its own, 32 short entries formatted like:

 

map01: "Map" by Mapper from Megawad

 

-screenshot (eventually)-

 

"Lorem ipsum map05:dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea former-human-commodo consequat."

 

map02: "Other Map" by Other Mapper from Other Megawad

 

...

 

Guidelines: 

 

- No restrictions on ports, format, replaced resources, etc., other than the Doom 2, Final Doom iwads. (Like the previous thread, it's more of an exercise than an attempt to create a cohesive, playable experience.)

- For the map you suggest, provide this info: map slot, map name, megawad, author. A screenshot is totally optional though. Explain, at least in brief, why you feel it's a good map for that slot.

- Maps must come from a megawad (15+ maps). There will be a limit of one level per a given megawad.

- edit: map01 in our megawad is limited to map01s in megawads, and so on.

- To help with consensus and selection, you can also discuss wads and talk about stuff. 

- No limits on participation, but I'd prefer to choose maps from as many people as is reasonable. The timeline is indefinite.

- If you end up suggesting a map that gets replaced, don't feel bad; it might happen. Although once I pick a map for a slot, I will be unlikely to replace it without a really good reason. This is so that people who put effort into arguments won't feel their work is likely to be wasted. 

 

To keep some picks interesting, I will act as if no consensus "most iconic mapXX" exists, for slots where it probably does -- so strong persuasion might see some dark horses nab (and hold on to) spots. Although that has its limits; I'd probably have to decline even if you did write a brilliant 30,000-word monograph extolling the virtues of Big Crappy Shit Megawad map20.

 

Have fun.

Edited by rd.

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-MEGAWAD IN PROGRESS-

 

map11: "My Fav" by Nanka Kurashiki from Japanese Community Project

 

etrn78.png.ef083c49f7ad382bb056a39d8b5af4bf.png

 

I think in most megawads this would be a secret map. And I think that's a shame!

 

OK -- I am a total sucker for cute concepts, bright colors, and silliness. I know that to many players, Doom wads should be serious, violent, and metal (and sometimes I indulge in that too), but at heart I think I've always enjoyed it more when I think of Doom as a bright, cartoony arcade game and a vehicle for dumb jokes. My Fav totally gets that. [skillsaw]

 

[BONUS] map33: "RJSLOTH map10" by TimeOfDeath from ESP 2

 

attachment.php?id=55330

You can't have a "fantasy megawad" without including one of ToD's maps. A fantasy megawad that does not concern itself with formats and subgenres with regards to restrictions is a perfect place to showcase the many different subgenres which have emerged over time. That being said, we're looking at a very strong case to include a rocket-jump map in this thing -- and I can't think of a better candidate than ToD's RJSLOTH 10. It is expansive, it's creative, it offers multiple play-styles (rockets only, or later a PR once it is unlocked), and it's one of the very few "magnum opus RJ maps" that ever appeared in a megawad to the best of my knowledge. [Nine Inch Heels]

Edited by rd.

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map32: "RJSLOTH map 10" by TimeofDeath from ESP 2 (found in mapslot 37)


Coop-20190506-180616.png

 

 

Why this map?
Because you can't have a "fantasy megawad" without including one of ToD's maps. Also, a fantasy megawad that does not concern itself with formats and subgenres with regards to restrictions is a perfect place to showcase the many different subgenres which have emerged over time. That being said, we're looking at a very strong case to include a rocket jump map in this thing - and I can't think of a better candidate than ToD's RJSLOTH 10. It is expansive, it's creative, it offers multiple play-styles (Rockets only, or later a PR once it is unlocked), and it's one of the very few "magnum opus RJ maps" that ever appeared in a megawad to the best of my knowledge.

 

This map needs to be put in a secret slot simply by virtue of it being extremely disruptive in case it appeared in a normal progression of maps. Since it requires ZDaemon to work, and is so vastly different from the vast majority of maps out there, I can't think of a single reason not to put it into such a slot. In fact, I'd argue the map would work better in slot 33, assuming that's available, but by the looks of it that's not the case.

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map32: "RJSLOTH map 10" by TimeofDeath from ESP 2 (found in mapslot 37)

...

In fact, I'd argue the map would work better in slot 33, assuming that's available, but by the looks of it that's not the case.

 

I guess it wasn't clear enough that mapXX in our megawad is limited to mapXXs in other megawads, but since I don't want your effort to go to waste, our megawad now has a map33, where this is placed. 

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BTW, I know this is just an exercise rather than an actual attempt (as you stated). But is it even possible to make such a wad? Because if there are maps from various wads with custom Dehacked monsters like 1 from Ancient Aliens, 1 from Eviternity, 1 from Struggle, 1 from Valiant etc. then all the maps would have to be modified and custom monsters would probably have to be butchered for this to work. I am not even going into the realm of levels from various source ports like (G)ZDoom mods here.

 

How would this really work?

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It would be possible in GZDoom with work (notwithstanding potential permission issues). pk3-style organization, as well as a script to remove unused resources to limit file size, would make that doable. I don't think the oldschool formats would be possible at all.

 

Either way, the idea is not to make a playable megawad, just a fun list, so the inconceivability isn't a big deal.

Edited by rd.

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From ToD I would vote for Peter Perv Private Place , a map with crazy , obscure and very creative progression , a lot of cool "vanilla tricks" and porn pics hidden in secrets with many monsters keeping them.

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MAP01: "System Control" by Tom Mustaine from TNT: Evilution

 

Spoiler

etrn11.png.0908bde8558ad830009763c51b8c5f76.png

 

System Control is a megawad putting its best foot forward. With a par time of 30 seconds and less than a couple minutes to 100% this level wastes no time, tossing you into a nicely-lit room with just your wits, a pea shooter, and a berserk. Whilst you can go through the level plinking away at enemies with your meagre weaponry (unless you find the secret shotgun) the berserk provided in the starting room turns what may otherwise be a less memorable opener into a frantic melee with lower-tier enemies.

 

There's plenty of armor and health to keep you alive, but if you plan on satisfyingly punching your assailants into giblets then you can't afford to get too lax—the level won't hesitate to kill you, tossing in multiple chaingunners and sneakily-placed imps.

 

Outside of the gameplay the aesthetics are also on-point, placing you in a cramped techbase setting that has use of appropriate textures and great use of lighting in the first and final rooms, as well as providing you with small outdoors areas that really help the map feel more like an actual place.

 

The music shreds too, using "Sadistic" by L.A. Sieben, who wrote many of TNT's tracks and would later go on to write music for Perdition's Gate and Hell to Pay. It's a short but sweet track that easily won't end up looping enough times to drive you crazy as other MIDIs in other maps might.

 

On the more meta end of things: Within the context of a larger fantasy megawad I think a frenetic and brief opener is a good way to open up any project. The community has put out so much quality work over the years that there's no shortage of longer maps to fill slots but I think that brevity can really help a mapset not outstay its welcome.

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So, a quasi community project where everyone has to describe maps they think are good instead of making maps they think are good. Sounds like interesting stuff. I might add my own mark later on.

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MAP01: "Surface" by Fonze, Jimmy Paddock and 40oz, from Mutiny

 

NGuXZI2.png

 

Between megawad first maps of all sort of flavors throughout the years, a moderately brief, fast and relentless opener such as this one is likely to satisfy anyone's appetite. There are magnificent vistas that create full immersion, with particular tricks included, the gameplay is powerful barrel-fueled frenzy to your advantage -or disadvantage!- and no time is wasted to introduce some beefier demons along the way to victory, because let's be real, we are in a contemporary megawad. Apart from that, there isn't just one straight-lined order to find your progression into the map, although this doesn't have to be a requisite, it's a commonly known design motif to ensure replayability.

 

So for those reasons, and because it was my very first thought, I picked this map. I could also talk about how the first map in BTSX:E2 is brilliant too, or many others since there's obviously no "most objective best", but I think Mutiny's map's brevity would accommodate to a full fledged megawad, of nowadays at least. 

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1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

BTW, I know this is just an exercise rather than an actual attempt (as you stated). But is it even possible to make such a wad? Because if there are maps from various wads with custom Dehacked monsters like 1 from Ancient Aliens, 1 from Eviternity, 1 from Struggle, 1 from Valiant etc. then all the maps would have to be modified and custom monsters would probably have to be butchered for this to work. I am not even going into the realm of levels from various source ports like (G)ZDoom mods here.

 

How would this really work?

This process was exactly how I made my Persephone volumes - volume one in particular has DECORATE renditions of the Imps and decorations in GOTHMASH (for my MAYhem 2048 map) as well as Christmas stuff (for Twisted Joke). It's pretty easy to do in GZDoom, although it can take up some time, and you can't encapsulate everything that can be achieved in other source ports perfectly, but for simple DeHackEd or sprite replacement stuff, it's perfectly adequate. A theoretical volume 4 would have a load of DBP maps and each map would be using it's own resource sets.

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Map02: Geothermal, by AD_79, music track "Neato" by Jeremy Doyle from TNT: Revilution.

 

(pending screenshot)

 

Atmospheric, detailed, challengin and really fun!

AD made one of the best second maps ever. The design is wonderful, the challenge is spot on, and use a good range of lowtier with midtier enemies to create good encounters.

Special mention to JDoyle who come back and made some awesome track supporting the project.

Its also the first map that let you apreciate de wonderful sky ETERNAL made for the project.

It gives a sense of dread and incoming madness as no other sky i ever saw before.

 

Unfortunately, the whole skull inside a planet idea got derailed shortly after the start of the megawad, and so we didn't see the full extension of how amazing that idea could be if it was properly developed.

Edited by P41R47

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Sure, i am in the mood for thinking about what it is that i like about some of my favourite maps.

 

It was hard to figure out which Sunlust and Speed of Doom maps to pick, if i were to create my own 'no limits' type list it would probably be dominated by these two megawads - alongside Scythe.

 

Map05 - Precarious - Insane_Gazebo - Sunder

 

4ybPWgD.png

 

A masterclass in conceptual vision and execution; put this under the category of "maps i wish i had designed". I still remember playing this for the first time and finding it absolutely infuriating, yet in beating it also the most rewarding Doom experience i have probably ever had.

 

Map10 - Toxic Touch - Kim André Malde - Alien Vendetta

 

pDO4380.png

 

For me this is one of the most atmospherically compelling maps ever created, Malde captured the atmosphere of the midi absolutely perfectly - i think the ability to marry a 3d environment with a piece of music is perhaps the single most powerful skill any mapper can possess. Yes, i know that Misri Halek exists, but i admire this map more for being so memorable without needing to be really expansive, so i am making the argument for this alternate option (even though i expect to lose eventually). Plus i already allocated map 20 to something else.

 

Map31 - 1010011010 - Darkwave0000 - Speed of Doom

 

Ez2uqAL.png

 

For me there is something irresistible about futuristic techno-wasteland type themes, and this is one of the best examples of that. This is one of those maps which is action packed without being overwhelmingly difficult which lends itself to being one of those maps i can pick up and play whatever mood i am in.

 

Map20 - Inverti in Darkness - Ribbiks - Sunlust

 

NrnMtgq.png

 

As close to perfect as it gets, in my opinion. Amazing visuals against a dramatic sonic backdrop with brilliantly interwoven gameplay that also features optionality and numerous memorable set pieces.

 

Map22 - Acerola-Orion - esselfortium - Ancient Aliens

 

RmAojZs.png

 

It is not often that you could describe a map as being truly beautiful and peaceful but you could in this instance, thanks to the gorgeous blend of colour on display and the serene music. Structurally this map is supreme with overlapping intertwined paths and well executed recycling of areas - it all feels very thoughtfully constructed.

 

Map23 - Anger - Erik Alm - Scythe

 

rSVobWJ.png

 

Probably a left field selection that i expect will be ousted by something more grandiose, but i always feel the need to shout this map out when i get the chance. This map is just a small courtyard with a couple of caverns attached, yet the mileage Alm gets out of it is absolutely astonishing - one of those instances where there is a lot more to this map than meets the eye. The decision to restrict armour puts the player in a different mindset and in this instance adds a lot of depth and nuance to how the map must be approached in order to survive. This map is a masterclass in efficient design and the ability to see the bigger picture of a whole megawad when creating individual maps.

 

Map24 - The Mucus Flow - B.P.R.D - Community Chest 2

 

yh5Ewcc.png

 

I considered writing a post doing some 'table filling' with obvious picks but instead decided it might be more interesting to just write about maps i personally adore - that said, i think this one fits into both categories. The obtuse nature of the gameplay plays into the truly foreboding and surreal atmosphere of the map, which is enhanced by the music used. Possibly the single most influential map ever made given the pronounced effect it had on death-destiny, the aforementioned Darkwave and their creations, which have in turn influenced a formidable array of modern mappers.

Edited by Scotty

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Sure, i am in the mood for thinking about what it is that i like about some of my favourite maps...

Great list! 18 is probably my favorite Sunlust map as well, and I'd be more than happy to see it take that slot in the final version of our "fantasy" WAD. AA MAP22 is another great pick. Kinda wanting to do my own now, so-o-o-o...

 

MAP19: The Popes of Roam - From Valiant, by Skillsaw

wMggnFy.png

Probably not the first map anyone thinks of from Valiant, but it's a frantic and fun battle against 4 cybies and plenty of other rabble. I enjoy this map whenever I play it (as with most of Valiant), but I chose this one specifically because it is memorable, visually interesting, and the general openness would go well with Mu Cephei before it. 

 

MAP26: Insanity - From Going Down by Mouldy

tiSGy0m.png

Spoiler

YL7Xl4A.png

Wow, what a transformation. Going Down is full of fun, and I could have named any number of maps from there to put in here. This one seems best because of its awesome and weird theme, and the memorable "remodeling" that takes place, as well as the amazing gameplay the rest of the WAD is known for. I don't know if I've ever seen anything else in Doom (or at least in something non-ZDoom) as technically intense as the transformation sequence. Almost every sector moves, like damn.

 

I'll probably be back to this thread for more pretty soon.

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Cool idea, rd! If I did a full draft, I'm not sure I'd be able to follow all the rules (it would be really hard for me to pick 32 maps without a few repeat megawads). I might just do that anyway..

 

Anyways... 

 

MAP02 - Underwater Explosions by Tango from Back to Saturn X: Episode 2

etrn73.png.cae30f26ac61c091fef91f1f3b69165d.png

I don't know exactly what a MAP02 is supposed to be, but I love what Underwater Explosions is. It's playful (both in its gimmick, and its great music track) and despite the ambitious scale of its architecture (which might lead you to believe it wants to be something much grander), at it's heart this map is a quick, fun, gimmicky romp. I know everyone remembers that E2 opens with Shadow Port, but I think this map is just as effective in welcoming the player back to Back to Saturn X.

 

MAP04 - Seclusion by Mattias Berggren from Alien Vendetta

etrn74.png.8870031d8b21511aec6aca71b684350b.png

I know there are "better" maps in Alien Vendetta, and I'm sure there are "better" MAP04s in other wads, but this map has a special place in my heart and I'll defend it to the death.

 

Alien Vendetta was the first mapset I played after rediscovering Doom in the 2000s, and Seclusion is the first map in AV that really ups the monster count and density to levels that I really hadn't seen before. Especially not in a map that (at least superficially), looks like it wants to be in an E1 replacement. There's one drab, gray hallway with a monster closet inside a monster closet inside a monster closet, and there are more monster closets outside. Experiencing this monstercloset-ception made me fall in love with Doom again. This map is great.

 

MAP06 - Neo Gerouru by Ribbiks from Sunlust

etrn77.png.943fad2b2f525135b4a9c1eef6ed1518.png

A beautiful map -- I love the neon lights and the contrast between light and dark, and between splashes of bright green or orange and the brown and black backdrop of the map. The ending, in particular is a visual standout, with a descending lift looking at orange and green lights that glow and alternate, almost as if they're dancing, and opening into the super cool neon bridge scene in the screenshot. It's fun to play, too -- the combat is tight and kept to a small scale. It's a good introduction to the combat puzzle/light "slaughter" style that this wad is known for.

 

MAP11 - My Fav by Nanka Kurashiki from Japanese Community Project

etrn78.png.ef083c49f7ad382bb056a39d8b5af4bf.png

I think in most megawads this would be a secret map. And I think that's a shame!

 

OK - I am a total sucker for cute concepts, bright colors, and silliness. I know that to many players, Doom wads should be serious, violent, and metal (and sometimes I indulge in that too), but at heart I think I've always enjoyed it more when I think of Doom as a bright, cartoony arcade game and a vehicle for dumb jokes. My Fav totally gets that.

 

MAP14 - Sledge by Darkwave0000 from Speed of Doom

etrn79.png.109d7f34739fc1287ba1415e41a9867c.png

This map looked insurmountable the first time I saw it. I mean, it doesn't look as intimidating as Dark Dome or Demonic Hordes, but still...

Turns out, though, that Sledge isn't anywhere near as tough as it looks. Speed of Doom gets a lot harder, of course, but at least in Sledge, the name of the game is slaughter with an emphasis on speed, mobility, and player empowerment, and that is right up my alley. It's a great map to run wild and blow off steam in.

 

MAP15 - Cryonology by AtroNx from Eviternity

etrn80.png.2bce1f3253d614bbd8a9680854e31276.png

I think this map mostly speaks for itself so I'm not going to write much.

 

It's insanely ambitious, it's great looking, the clock setpiece is unique, memorable, and fun; and the music carries the map in the parts where the combat lets up. Kind of strangely, I've never found the secret exit, meaning I have no idea how to get to the guest map I did for Eviternity.

 

MAP17 - Canyon of Blood by Erik Alm from Scythe 2

etrn82.png.63321f380f5d1911f6f7012de45e70eb.png

I think it's pretty widely accepted that Scythe 2 is a prototype for a school of megawad based on combat, flow, and a visual style that emphasizes tight theming and macro-architecture over micro-detail.

 

Canyon of Blood is one of my favorite maps in Scythe 2 because it goes one step further by conveying a sense of adventure, grand scale, and visual narrative. After making the bloody trek through the canyon, you're allowed to look back and see what you had to overcome. It elevates the experience.

 

Plus, this is one hell of a palate cleanser after Mr. X (I went there, fight me).

 

MAP30 - Game Over by mouldy from Going Down

etrn81.png.bd53602bc87d4de52f9fda7e5d818398.png

Game Over is my favorite MAP30. If you ignored the carefully planned set dressing, there's not much to it. Do a little switch hunt, run past a couple monsters, exit ... but it's the jokes and references to the wad as a whole that make it so memorable. And I think that's what's important in a finale -- a finale shouldn't be just about challenge, or being epic or visually impressive, it should be about leaving the player with a good feeling about what they just played, and the feeling that the journey was worth it. I can't think of many finales that give me that feeling the way Game Over does.

 

On second thought, it's probably not a good pick for a fantasy megawad, because it draws its cleverness and humor from the 31 other maps you've played through to get to it... but I'm putting it forward anyway (please don't make me shoot rockets at a wall texture anymore).

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Thanks, all of these write-ups are great. Along with assembling the megawad, I'll also end up doing some "convenience linking" to posts containing all the suggestions.

ETAI'll add to the megawad list gradually. If I don't add a map from a post, it doesn't mean it was rejected, just that I want to leave consideration open.

Edited by rd.

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