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Wadmodder Shalton

Can anyone find the original source used to create the Rocket Launcher sprites?

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We all know that id Software has used a few real world references to create sprites & textures, namely the coffee table book Nightmares in the Sky, Mediaclips CD-ROMs from Aris Entertainment, Computer Motherboards, Toy Guns & original clay models.

 

The references of the Weapons of DOOM I & II are as follows:

 

Pistol: A Beretta 92FS model toy pistol

Shotgun: Tootsietoy Dakota toy shotgun

Super Shotgun: mostly reused parts of the shotgun graphics, and reused the unused shotgun shell graphics planned for shells to eject

Chaingun: Tootsietoy Ol' Painless chaingun, this gun was also used to create textures, the electric pillar & floor lamp decorations

Rocket Launcher: nobody knows the original source used to create the sprites

Plasma Rifle: a part of a toy Rambo M60

BFG9000: Creatoy Roargun, this weapons was also used to create textures

Chainsaw: McCulloch Eager Beaver chainsaw borrowed from a girlfriend of Tom Hall

Fists: basically just Kevin Cloud taking photos of him punching the air. Cloud's hairy arms was also used to create some textures

 

As far as we know nobody has found the original source used to create the sprites of the Rocket Launcher sprites in DOOM, and since the Super Shotgun is just the Shotgun graphics modified with the hand sprites of the Fists, Pistol & Chainsaw, other sources used to create the Super Shotgun graphics are unknown.

 

If you know any source that was used to create the Rocket Launcher sprites, let me know in this discussion

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My guess is the RL was drawn by hand without any reference because it has very simple sprites and doesn't look like it has been photographed. Even if it had had the original source, doomers would already find it.

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Wadmodder RiderPùdu,

 

Adrian Carmack is a gifted artist. He hand drew the rocket launcher, and most of the scans used for other weapons, items, textures, and monsters are heavily edited from their original photo scans.

 

Respectfully,

 

-alLAN95th

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If that's the case with the Rocket Launcher, then can anyone confirm if the Tootsietoy Dakota toy shotgun was used to create textures in DOOM, as scene in the picture I've uploaded above?

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I don't recognize any texture or flat in the game from the stock. For the Super Shotgun, I honestly want to say that it reused little, if anything, from the Shotgun, except for the hands and muzzleflashes, because it really looks like Adrian just painted them from scratch (digitally).

 

FWIW, I always looked at the muzzle of the early BFG9000 and thought that one of its barrels look a tiny bit like the Rocket Launcher.

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I am quite sure the rocket launcher sprite was derived from the gun used for the bfg sprite.

Remember the guy that buyed this gun and recreated the sprite in hi-res with accurate angles and what not? Look at the mirrored image of the gun.

Now doesn't this barrel look awfully familiar?

MACHINE_01.jpg

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5 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

I don't recognize any texture or flat in the game from the stock. For the Super Shotgun, I honestly want to say that it reused little, if anything, from the Shotgun, except for the hands and muzzleflashes, because it really looks like Adrian just painted them from scratch (digitally).

 

FWIW, I always looked at the muzzle of the early BFG9000 and thought that one of its barrels look a tiny bit like the Rocket Launcher.

Well, if your unsure if any of the textures or flats were created from the toy shotgun, here's a few flats & textures that I theorise were created with the toy shotgun (also, please note I extracted textures from the Neural 2X Upscale, mostly due to difficulties seeing textures with JPEG compression):

Spoiler

824430188_ShotgunFlatsReference.jpg.42e9c82a3748b3f67c198524b6950c65.jpg

Possible textures the DOOM Shotgun was used to create said textures:1019350515_ShotgunTextureReference.jpg.9fa7e3b310bb997b3755060b93967df4.jpg

 

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I guess maybe CEIL5_2 or FLOOR7_1 could maybe have been derived from it, but if they did, it'd be pretty impossible to tell. I don't think the toy has any kind of faux-wood texture or pattern printed or molded onto it, and if it's just the plastic, which may not have much of a visible grain structure to it (if any at all), then they probably worked the texture over to the point that it's completely unrecognizable.

 

I couldn't say for sure, but base textures in question are very simple and would be really easy to make just from scratch or from who knows what stock resource, so in my opinion, I'm inclined to say they didn't do that. The only guys who'd know that for certain would be Adrian Carmack or Kevin Cloud.

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The brown plastic does have a sort of imitation wood effect but it's very plasticy and also extremely unlike any sort of texture in the entire Doom catalogue. The closest possible match would be FLOOR7_1, though even that one is a stretch. Definitely none of the others, and certainly not any of the BROWN wall textures that are defined by their parallel vertical streaks.

 

As for the black plastic, I suppose it's supposed to be a possible source for CEIL5_1, but sorry, no. CEIL5_1 just looks like some random noise effect over a dark gray fill.

 

 

I am also not really seeing a resemblance between the rocket launcher and the proto-BFG.

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7 minutes ago, Gez said:

I am also not really seeing a resemblance between the rocket launcher and the proto-BFG.

It's not a 1:1 dead ringer, but I always saw a faint similarity.

 

rockits.png.3599eccbaffaafeed95142c88473d652.png

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7 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

It's not a 1:1 dead ringer, but I always saw a faint similarity.

 

rockits.png.3599eccbaffaafeed95142c88473d652.png

It is the same toy gun used by the BFG that was used to create the Rocket Launcher sprites, albeit with minor hand drawn editing to the sprites. Awesome job finding the original source for the Rocket Launcher.

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I wouldn't say it's 100% definite, but it looks closer than any other known asset seen in any of the builds or asset dumps, at least in my opinion. Here's the early BFG9000 sprite before they gave it the muzzle from the Plasma Rifle. If they did use the raygun for that, I would suggest that they may have used another photo of it, or cropped it from the photo they used before scaling it down.

1430432028690.png.4a0bb0570173b9195d1adb14f59f772d.png

 

I've seen some people suggest that THIS thing was supposed to have been turned into the Rocket Launcher, but in my opinion it looks absolutely nothing at all like it, if they did, then Adrian painted over the thing completely, and to me, it would make a little bit more sense if that was done with a shape that much more closely resembled the final launcher.

gunthing.jpg.9ca31c935c413f45fb0f21db61123bdb.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Wadmodder RiderPùdu said:

That was probably used to supposedly create these textures or something?

 

Nah, those are made from scans of the Spider Mastermind's torso section:

 

801540543_mastermindtorso.jpg.1efc1de76295793ecedd21847c955412.jpg

 

 

1 hour ago, ChopBlock223 said:

gunthing.jpg.9ca31c935c413f45fb0f21db61123bdb.jpg

 

Has anyone ever identified what this photo is actually of? Romero described it as "Toy scan for chaingun, 1993" but it looks nothing like the big plastic minigun the chaingun is based on.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Nootrac4571 said:

Has anyone ever identified what this photo is actually of? Romero described it as "Toy scan for chaingun, 1993" but it looks nothing like the big plastic minigun the chaingun is based on.

Maybe it's an awkward close-up on one of the details? Just like the Creatoy Roargun, the Ol' Painless was covered in a bunch of greebling, some which they turned into textures and stuff. Maybe it's from some other toy or model kit which they just didn't end up using for anything else, but it could just as well be some car part, machine shop implement, piece of plumbing, section of some fusebox assembly, or a vacuum cleaner.

 

The angle is awkward and the resolution fuzzy, god knows what it really is.

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8 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

The angle is awkward and the resolution fuzzy, god knows what it really is.

 

I'm sure it's not part of ol' painless.

 

Yeah it could be anything, but the community's been amazing at tracking down nearly everything else over the years, just wondered if anyone's ever made any headway on this one.

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I'm also unsure if the Rambo M60 toy gun was used to create textures.

2038914959_PlasmaRifleReference.jpg.122bf5c7d3c136dc7fcd0ac91cc0d34e.jpg

Here a few guesses for textures the toy gun source for the plasma gun was likely used to create said textures

Spoiler

2058053541_PlasmaRifleTexturereference.png.f19bb417bbcb49e820cd45152e31447b.png

If there are any resemblances to any of the parts of the M60 toy gun, let me know.

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I don't see the resemblence anywhere, you'll have to cut out the parts you mean specifically and show the textures next to them.

 

I know that a pair of snakeskin boots were used to create some of the textures, and likely these are the steel hexagonal tiles of different kinds.

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the "texture" of all these toys is way too basic. There's basically nothing you get from scanning it, it's just noise which isn't hard to create manually. The comp textures are also an extremely poor match. Their simple detail makes it 100% obvious they're pixeled.

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38 minutes ago, Wadmodder RiderPùdu said:

I'm also unsure if the Rambo M60 toy gun was used to create textures.



 

You seem to be strongly of the opinion that many textures in the game were derived from scans of toy guns, in addition to the weapon sprites. May I ask where this presumption comes from? I'm no expert on the origin of Doom textures, but I hadn't heard this point of view before.

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We all probably know that the textures from Wolfenstein 3D & Spear of Destiny were simply palette swaps or recycled assets of each other. As scene here:

Wolfenstein 3D

1375.png?updated=1460970129

Spear of Destiny

10151.png?updated=1548283973

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1 hour ago, Bauul said:

You seem to be strongly of the opinion that many textures in the game were derived from scans of toy guns, in addition to the weapon sprites. May I ask where this presumption comes from? I'm no expert on the origin of Doom textures, but I hadn't heard this point of view before.

Because a lot of the tech textures you see in Doom and Doom 2 were made from the detailing on the Creatoy Roargun toy, and to a lesser extent the Ol' Painless toy.

1651991612_bfgcreatoy.jpg.ffd942b85bc94e3e012c76ddd19be6ac.jpg

painless.jpg.c16cb600812c8490c70602ff7b015061.jpg

door03.png.7888bf599cbadb735cc193e691c7ffd4.pngwall24.png.69ace02339162030230dfaac56467d4a.png

wall17.png.3e97fec1c7bce278b9ef7206267b1fd3.pngspr8.png.d46d283b8f71337c192445b86eba05b9.png

 

 

 

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