Monster pop-in on Illuminatus

[The_Hyphenator]

I've been playing through Illuminatus lately, and while I've been enjoying it, I noticed something odd. In a few places on the maps, I've approached a location and monsters have just...popped in. They didn't come from compartments or teleport in or rise from the floor like in Spirit World, they just...appeared. One second I'm looking at empty space, and the next there's a Baron or some zombies standing there. It's literally like what happens with early 3D engines where you approach an object and it just materializes as soon as it falls within the game's draw distance. I haven't seen anything like this before in Doom. Is this a known bug? Anyone else experience this? I'm running the game in GZDoom, if that helps.

[SaladBadger]

This is deliberate. The monsters are actually hiding in invisible holes (illusio-pits, if you will), and when you approach them, a certain trick is used to cause the floor to immediately raise to the surrounding level, revealing the monster.

[Doomkid]

I have used this trick here and there, but because it looks so odd, I considered having a dummy thing that would just look like green teleport fog and the instant it "saw" the doomguy it animated. A person could then place these dummy things on top of pop-in monsters to have it appear as though they teleported in, to avoid the jankiness. Never got it working in DeHackEd, though..

[Juza]

It's a really cheap trick that is unfortunately quite popular... most of the time, it's born out of uncreativity and poor design knowledge. When I was really new to mapping, once I learned this trick, I used it what felt like every three rooms or so. It's a poor way of introducing, or preventing a combat situation to be triggered earlier than expected.

Not to say there aren't good uses for it, but having it to make monsters simply appear out of thin air within the player's vision is not one of them.

[The_Hyphenator]

2 minutes ago, Juza said:

It's a really cheap trick that is unfortunately quite popular... most of the time, it's born out of uncreativity and poor design knowledge. When I was really new to mapping, once I learned this trick, I used it what felt like every three rooms or so. It's a poor way of introducing, or preventing a combat situation to be triggered earlier than expected.

Not to say there aren't good uses for it, but having it to make monsters simply appear out of thin air within the player's vision is not one of them.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that's kind of an obnoxious way to do it. I mean, I expect to get ambushed while playing Doom. It's just part of the game. But the way this is handled honestly looks like a bug or an engine limitation rather than a stylistic choice. I get that people are still trying to find ways to surprise players in WADs in a game that's more than 25 years old at this point, but it just lacks panache.

I'm enjoying the WAD otherwise, and it's good to know that it's not a problem with my setup, but still, kinda disappointing.

[Pechudin]

Not everyone considers it cheap or obnoxious (I do, but I have seen that the opinion is split), though. This is used extensively in a lot of popular WADs.

[Andromeda]

Nothing gets your heart racing like instapop monsters :)

[gothgirlxx96]

10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I have used this trick here and there,

Oh yes I will never forget those 2 hellknights that show up in your shovelware adventure around where you get the blue key.

They get me every time !

[The_Hyphenator]

10 hours ago, Pechudin said:

Not everyone considers it cheap or obnoxious (I do, but I have seen that the opinion is split), though. This is used extensively in a lot of popular WADs.

It just makes me think of the moment that killed Doom 3 for me. I was already not having much fun with the game, but I hit one of the rooms where you have to wander around in pitch darkness, and I stumbled upon a hidden spawn point and saw a Maggot just appear out of nothingness right before my eyes. It just immediately drove home for me what a monotonous "haunted house" experience I was in for.

I did push on for a while after that, but I distinctly remember that being the moment where I completely turned on the game, so seeing it while playing a Doom 2 WAD just invokes bad memories.

[wallabra]

On 12/20/2020 at 3:07 AM, SaladBadger said:

The monsters are actually hiding in invisible holes (illusio-pits, if you will)

 

Ah, yes! You are, indeed, a man of culture.

 

I love illusio-pits. They're very... illusive. Intriguing, if I can say so myself.

 

And quite deadly. Hooves are cool, but the Cybie's are too dang large.

 

Now, if you can insta-raise them - now that is going to be fun! See? Those traps are just mechanized wow.wad miniatures! I knew it all along!

[Devalaous]

pop-up monsters is one of the worst things in Doom maps, and Dr Sleep was a fan of them, a lot of his otherwise awesome maps were soured by monsters suddenly in my face with no lead up.

[E.M.]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:48 AM, Pechudin said:

Not everyone considers it cheap or obnoxious (I do, but I have seen that the opinion is split), though. This is used extensively in a lot of popular WADs.

 

I like the trick as I use it myself, but it can get annoying if it's overused.

[94's the best style]

Illusio pits are the easiest way to create ambushes fast and easy. Also very vanilla limits friendly. Best use is probably to have them hide monsters in areas you can see much earlier than you can access.