Most overdone/played-out Doom arguments?

[D4NUK1]

"Arguments about what is or isn't "truly Doomy" For me, it's not only aplicable to custom maps, gameplay wads, it's extend even to the new games (Eternal saying Hi). They like to take down merits of those custom games, maps, new games only because it's not a full extension, convertion or remasterization of Doom II.

Also by extension, the difficulty, it's adversed that custom games or newer games will not be the same difficulty as old games, so yeah , we know you can beat DOOM 2 Nigthmare without dying, but it's not comparable to Doom 2016 Nigthmare.

[Tristan]

cw: hot takes

voted for all of them because they all suck, I think 'worst iwad map' does my head in the most though. It's not quite as bad now as it was but there definitely used to be a new thread for that like every 2 weeks a couple of years ago. Shut. Up.

 

As for the rest:
 

Spoiler

 

Brutal Doom arguments were obnoxious but from my perspective they're a bit of a thing of the past now, used to see them all the time years ago, not so much now.

I've flipped sides of the slaughtermap argument, still not really my cup of tea personally but not sure why we still need to get all upset over them so often.

Source ports, literally who cares what engine some random people on the internet prefer to play doom with.

GZDoom see above, as for Graf, I think basically everyone usually involved in those arguments are tired of it.

Doom is/isn't 3D. When we're starting to debate the definition of a dimension, it's time to stop. (P.S. it is 3D)

Non-related Doom stuff is just the Everything Else forum. I don't really look at it anymore.

What does truly Doomy even mean at this point.

Difficulty setting arguments are just gatekeeping bullshit. Most maps are designed around UV, some aren't. You're allowed to play on a lower difficulty and anyone who gives you shit for that can fuck off.

Doom is dying, I don't really see this much apart from that one recent thread. Probably because it's about as far from accurate as you can get.

 

 

[leodoom85]

17 minutes ago, Eris Falling said:

 voted for all of them because they all suck, I think 'worst iwad map' does my head in the most though. 

If you see a Gantlet vs Gauntlet argument, I guess that you'd vote that as well :D

[leodoom85]

Another argument that I cringe to see, would definitely be brutal doom stuff. That mod left a mark yes. I do have my opinions but, the argument is old.

 

Enough is enough.

[The Almighty Egg]

Doom is very much clearly 4D.

[Omniarch]

To me, it'd have to be the plague of 'Worst/Most Overrated/Hated' threads and their innumerable variants. Like, I get that some people (myself included) enjoy venting online about some trivial annoyance and maybe getting some low-effort likes for their trouble, but the sheer quantity of such threads makes me roll my eyes. There really are better uses of front-page space than the hundred septillionth 'Most Hated Monster in Doom' topic.

[Not Jabba]

As a spinoff of "best/worst iwad maps," there's the whole "Doom 1 is a better game than Doom 2 because it has more realistic design" and all the discussion that spawns from that. Just in case we want to have that argument again, the people who say Doom 1 is a better game are wrong.

 

5 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

I propose that all 2021 arguments nominated in the poll be manipulated by tactical sock-puppetry into heated debates about what Christian name best describes doomguy's face in the hud until this becomes the #1 issue communitywide.

 

I reckon he's either an Ernest or a John. Could also be a Michael but I doubt the immaculate stoicism and jawline would have been able to take form after repeat utterances of the word 'Mike'.

 

The name on his birth certificate is Doomguy Michael Blaze, with Blaze being an Americanized form of Blazkowicz. My sock puppets and I will die on this hill.

[DSC]

10 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

As a spinoff of "best/worst iwad maps," there's the whole "Doom 1 is a better game than Doom 2 because it has more realistic design" and all the discussion that spawns from that. Just in case we want to have that argument again, the people who say Doom 1 is a better game are wrong.

THIS A MILLION TIMES. Its alright if you think Doom 1 is the better game, but please, lets keep the discussions out.

[Diabolución]

Your post has reminded me of the tired argument that Sandy Petersen’s maps are subpar or rubbish.

[DSC]

1 minute ago, Diabolución said:

Your post has reminded me of the tired argument that Sandy Petersen’s maps are subpar or rubbish.

THIS TOO! Honestly, how can play people say that when Tom Hall's rooms in Doom 1 are a thing?

[Andromeda]

I don't mind them, honestly.

 

[Rare Hatchiama]

Brutal Doom arguments are boring.  

 

"I like Brutal DOOM."

 

(A collective WHAT)

 

"Yeah, I think it's cool."

 

(Elitist babble and some sentitive types bringing up some old comments Sgt Mark made as if that has anything to do with the content of the mod)

 

Rinse and repeat.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Rare Hatchiama : Realized I didn't capitalize DOOM.

[Bauul]

Out of all of those (and I dislike every one of them!) the argument about whether Doom is 3D is to my mind the most utterly pointless, because whatever the conclusion is doesn't make any difference to anything.

 

You could argue the same about "What IWAD map is best", but there is at least some merit in artistic discussion - it's not unusual for art to be reevaluated over time - but the 3D argument is purely technical. And I'd be very happy if I never had to think about it ever again. 

[Xyzzу]

Should I link this again?

 

 

[Redneckerz]

6 minutes ago, Bauul said:

Out of all of those (and I dislike every one of them!) the argument about whether Doom is 3D is to my mind the most utterly pointless, because whatever the conclusion is doesn't make any difference to anything.

Its obviously 2.5D. (And its true because its on that page.)

/s

 

6 minutes ago, Bauul said:

You could argue the same about "What IWAD map is best", but there is at least some merit in artistic discussion - it's not unusual for art to be reevaluated over time - but the 3D argument is purely technical. And I'd be very happy if I never had to think about it ever again. 

The best IWAD map is Barrels O Fun because Barrels.

[Dimon12321]

I feel like the site's search engine is just a joke since it's easier to create a new thread than to look for something specific which was widely discussed 100 times before.

[Doomkid]

I think the search is very useful personally, but whether or not someone starts a new thread or bumps an old one makes no difference to me, really. Since the forum software was updated a few years back, it could be argued that starting a new thread is more considerate so as to not send out pointless notifications to people who posted in the thread years ago, but even then it’s no problem one way or the other imo 

[Uncle 80]

I voted "stock maps" which in my mind also includes all the threads á la "What color underwear do you think the Baron is wearing under his fur-pants?". Those are the absolute worst... (edit; those kinds of threads aren't all that argumentative, but still)

[QuotePilgrim]

For the most part I don't really care because well, first I'm not a super active member of the community, I'm more interested in just playing the game. Second, though, and most important, we have to remember that the people who bring up these points again may not be aware that these discussions already happen in the past, even if in hindsight that's obvious, given that the community has been around for so long.

 

Of course, anyone can look it up and read old threads about these things before bringing something up, but that leads my next point, which is opinions change. Reading an old thread about something gives absolutely no insight on where people stand now, and that, at least to me, is always a valid reason to ask again a question that has been asked in the past.

 

I understand the annoyance, and despite what I have just said, I too get annoyed about certain things. Even though I haven't really seen it that much, I find the whole "Doom is dying" thing very tiresome. Also the whole "Doom was meant to be played with the keyboard only" thing, which was not an option to vote on, and something I was fully unaware of until I had been playing the game for a couple years and watched a YouTube video talking about it.

[MxCraven]

The most overused argument is -file

Thank fuck for enyo-doom (and other launchers) :P

[SpaceTrash]

Anything that involves claiming theres a "right" or "wrong" way to experience DOOM. The best way to experience DOOM is the way you enjoy it the most. 

[DNSKILL5]

Source ports. It’s like a pissing contest. Just get down and suck in that piss if what source port you use vs others use means that much to you already. It reminds me of little kids in grade school arguing over made up bullshit and the one with the loudest voice always wants the final say. Grow up. 

[Rare Hatchiama]

Fuck people who don't capitalize DOOM.

[Bridgeburner56]

Oh good I can vote for all of them

[dmslr]

We are forgetting texture filtering...

[Nine Inch Heels]

There are some kinds of arguments that really peeve me, but I don't see them being represented in that multiple choice:

The big one is "what's fair encounter design and what isn't?", which usually segue ways into discussions about "good and bad design", as well as "what people are supposed to consider fun". It often ends up dying either a very sudden death due to threads getting locked/abandoned, or go down the road of a very slow and steady death after everybody's said their piece while some folks can't quite let go just yet.

 

Not too ramble too much about this one, but: You don't get to decide what somebody else does or does not enjoy, even if you're washed with all the mainstream waters out there. "Me and 10,000 other people like this thing over the other thing, therefore other thing is less good." is an argument from authority which completely ignores the simple fact that people have different tastes. Just accept that, sometimes, people like something you don't enjoy, which they have every right to do, and move on with your life instead of trying to rationalize why your personal preference is somehow better than somebody else's...

 

 

The next one is "what's acceptable to have in a map and what isn't?", which often involves things such as height variations, or other arbitrary """standards""" such as "is it okay to have a cyberdemon in map01 of a megaWAD?"... You wanna know why these discussions piss me off so much? It's because these discussions largely exist due to the fact that some very loud people - most of which never drew a single sector in their lives - think that they need to promote their ideas of what a map should or shouldn't have on less experienced mappers - who are learning the ropes just that very moment. If you think that cyberdemon you put in Map01 elevates the map in some way, just fucking leave it in, play the map a few times, see if getting rid of the cyb is about as enjoyable as keeping it in mind is - and that's it. Wham, bam, done...

 

If you "promote" these supposed standards so vehemently that new mappers ask questions about the acceptability of their work, because they might be concerned about getting picked apart publicly by self-appointed experts on game-design, then I'd argue it's come to a point where trying to "science the fucking shit" out of every mapping aspect has gone a tad too far...

 

Is it good to have "guidelines"? Yeah... Of course it is. By all means, man, help people get some basic idea of the kinds of "elements" they can use to make their maps more appealing and interesting, just link them some guide, or some interview with some popular mapper to get them started...

 

Is it in any way positive when these "guidelines" make new mappers feel insecure long before they even released a single damn map? Fuck no... It bloody ain't...

[GraphicBleeder]

I'm gonna be honest with you man.


I am getting really tired of Brutal Doom discussion. 

[AtticTelephone]

9 hours ago, Phobus said:

I picked the "stock maps" option, as I think we all know Slaughter is shit, so we don't need to have the argument ;)

I was going to go on a very long rant about every reason why that claim is wrong, but then I realized you were joking.

 

Anyways, I think that us as a community need to remove the "doom is dying" and "what is the best/worst" threads so that we can finally have intelligent discussion on things like how gimmicks should be done in maps, or how to create advanced Sunlustesque architecture and make brilliant lighting effects, or what Final Doom would be like if it had new monsters or weapons. These are all threads where advanced intelligent conversations can actually occur instead of rants, flamewars and whatnot, and this can be an actual reality, but it would be hard to actually make it so that these hypothetical threads were more popular.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

The "Doom is/is Not 3D" is by a long shot the worst. The sheer scale of bullshit this discussion brings is ridiculous, involving even devs from other games, game journos and youtube personalities that have shit nothing to do with Doom.
And most importantly, is the most useless of all, that has absolutely no impact on the future or past of the community.

[GarrettChan]

1 hour ago, Rare Hatchiama said:

Fuck people who don't capitalize DOOM.

I only capitalize the D, so should I be f**ked?

 

2 hours ago, Xyzzy01 said:

Should I link this again?

While I agree with this "whether UD or D2 maps are better than the other" is pointless... I saw there's a post in the same page from the 30 YO me... and I somehow felt strange that I would reply to such a bad post, which bugs me now :P