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whatup876

Bringing back the Chaingunner

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The Chaingunner/Heavy Weapon Dude is the one enemy from Doom 1 and 2 that hasn't returned in the new Doom games and most assume it's because he either doesn't fit or isn't interesting enough.

Some even believe the Hell Razer was the modern equivalent of the Chaingunner.

Although i've seen people's ideas on how he could be modernized, from gameplay to design.

 

Some suggest him having grenades, even if the Arachnotron already has that attack, but some tweaks could allow to make him tossing grenades in a different way and with different effects.

I've seen suggestions for a face shield, to prevent headshots.

The more popular one recently is probably giving him the ability to shoot puddles of purple slime, which could be a brand new attack, that hasn't been implemented yet.

 

I remember when some people expected him to be a fusion of his classic counterpart and the Commandos from Doom 3, where he could get a tentacle arm. (or some voice lines inspired by the alpha Doom 3 version)

 

An idea i just thought of was if he could summon mines (like explosive ones with proximity detection and beeping noise alongside lights) where the player could still spot them and even use them against enemies (by shooting at it) but the player being distracted by enemies, combined with the Chaingunner running away and planting more mines, could be a bit gimmicky. (may or may not fit some bigger, maze-like arenas)

This illustration shows some suggestions on how to modernize the Chaingunner; it's actually a revision based off some responses by UndertheMayo.

So here's the older concept:

One has a gore nest on his back, the other has a double chainsaw, a beard and an eye scouter thingie. (these two visual details honestly add a bit of personality)

Even if some of these ideas are just random concepts, they could work for some other enemies, maybe.

This is another concept by someone else and in the comments, one of their ideas was if the Chaingunner could summon burning rings from him, which i assume is an attack meant to keep the player away from him. (reminds me of a chaingun from Team Fortress 2, that wasted more ammo to summon flaming rings, which came from an update that i think was to promote Sleeping Dogs on PC)

 

I could also post some videos discussing this, two from UndertheMayo and another from Peter Lawrence.

 

 

 

Does anyone else have some ideas about this?

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Chaingunner would be a nice break of pacing of buffed demons, and more like a trink before engagin type of enemies, i like it!

 

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D64's cut enemies in general are cool looking and could have potential for new attacks or ways of handling things.

I always imagine that HR Giger woman having some "health syphon/self heal" ability and it being a TF2 medic-like healer for nearby enemies, even if you had to work around to justify it.

Stuff that not only makes enemies unique gameplay-wise but it existing in gameplay even comes off as "canonically raising Hell's powerlevel".

 

Speaking of possessed enemies, the fact that zombies in 1 had rifles (which was later replaced by a pistol) makes me surprised they're not carrying actual energy pistol, like the one in 2016.

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I always thought the Hell Razer in Doom 2016 fulfilled a similar role to the Chaingunner - a sustained long-ranged damage dealer soldier. He even had a brown/red color scheme. I think both enemies could be brought back and combined into a single demon.

 

It would be a Hell Razer with a Classic-inspired Chaingunner appearance, similar to how they designed Possessed Soldiers and Security into Zombie Men and Shotgunners respectively. The "ossified arm cannon" could be made into a chaingun that has melded into the Hell Razer's flesh.

 

Rather than haphazardly flailing a laser beam like in 2016, they will now take a second to "lock-on" to the Slayer, and then unleash a piercing energy beam that tracks the Slayer's movements. This gameplay will be more closer to the Classic Chaingunner, who was hyper-focused when targeting the player. The tracking can now be broken by dashing or double jumping - similar to how Eternal's Revenant missiles can lose their tracking by dashing as well. Maybe they could have a bit more health too, since the Classic Chaingunner had more health than its Zombie Man / Shotgunner counterparts.

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The Hell Razer also reminds me of the Shambler from Quake, because both are these red/white creatures with charging lazer beams.

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Chaingunners deserve to return, they were the bane of most players, specifically those who played Plutonia. And I like the concepts in the images and video, really makes him look tough. The Chaingunner definitely should be Heavy Demons, but while the art states Carcass/Revenant health, I think they should be tougher so that they can live long enough to dish more damage 

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Not sure how I feel about any of those concepts and art, but I would like to see the chaingunner brought back in some form. 

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Was the Chaingunner in Doom 1? I'm at E2M6 and I haven't seen him. I thought he was added in Doom 2, and did see him in Doom 2's early levels & beyond. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Adding the chaingunner would be interesting. I do hope id keeps to the 'simplicity' mindset: what was the chaingunner's role in OG game play? My guess is suppression fire with hitscan. I wonder how they'd translate that to DE.

Edited by Rytrik

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26 minutes ago, Rytrik said:

Was the Chaingunner in Doom 1?

 

Only if you are playing the PS1 port on Ultra-Violence. Its very first level, Hangar, already features a chaingunner.

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2 hours ago, Diabolución said:

 

Only if you are playing the PS1 port on Ultra-Violence. Its very first level, Hangar, already features a chaingunner.

 

I learned something new. Thanks!

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He most probably would be a BEAMgunner instead of Chaingunner because New id allergic to hitscanner classes for some reason, IDK.

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To be fair, the combat of the new games has a different philosofy that also changed other enemies.

Besides the simulation of bullets, hitscan was also a thing because how combat worked means that hitscan technically fit there. (like the simpler ai and enemy placement)

I thought a more natural evolution would be with "bullet" projectiles, so the context of "carrying the same weapon as you" would be there, even if the gameplay is slightly different.

 

It can also depend on how you can justify certain attacks.

Like for example, there's concept art of 2016 Multiplayer's Harvester with weird back lungs.

That could be a weakspot to deactivate abilities like healing other enemies or syphoning your health.

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I like the idea of an enemy that can launch the purple goo from mid to long range. Like the Cyber Mancubus and it's acid attack.

And if you get close to the chaingunner, he can surround himself with more purple goo, which discourages the player from attacking close range. Topping it off with an enemy that has more resistance to precision bolt and ballista, this is something you'd need to attack from the air.

 

Sounds rad.

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What if the Chaingunner had a second phase, somehow? (like the DH, kind of)

I once imagined the Arachnotron and Baron suddenly turning into the Arachnorb and Afrit from Valiant and Realm667 or something close.

Or even a Tyrant regenerating his body, just to regain normal limbs and become an Harbinger of Doom.

 

I also thought if an enemy with a projectile reflecting shield could lead to an opportunity of the player's own chaingun shield doing the same (with an upgrade), so you could technically play Pong in Doom.

And because of the fire themed Baron, i kind rock/stone demons could work. (or even one made of toxic green slime)

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On 12/25/2020 at 3:32 PM, THE IMP said:

He most probably would be a BEAMgunner instead of Chaingunner because New id allergic to hitscanner classes for some reason, IDK.

You forget that the Shotgun Zombies are Hitscan, then again that is one class in an entire game

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I would rather like to see how they would bring the fire extinguisher from DOOM RPG to DOOM Eternal, guess that leaves our imagination, unless DOOM does some DOOM all-stars like Nintendo did with Mario in 1993.

 

I also got to be honest here I do not have Eternal, waiting until I beat 2016 to buy it.

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I feel like if id ever wanted to do a throwback/tribute stuff with Doom, it could be like a spin off series.

Something like MetaDoom or MiniDoom 2.

Could also be the ground for stuff like exploring unused/cut concepts or "remasters" of classic designs or music.

 

Stuff that fans technically did, so that could be some opportunities for some collabs or something.

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Maykr drone fill their role better in Eternal's gameplay philosophy. A hitscan chaingunner will just be extremely annoying in fights with super fast demons. If they really want to add a chaingunner variation then the Doom 3 version is much better for this role, as they stop shooting to try and melee attack.

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The concept of the purple goo reminded me that an enemy directly slowing down Doomguy could be interesting and fit a potential snow themed demon, but the opposite (making Doomguy too fast) could lead to avoid using dash and relying on meathook.

Like, slippery ice/water floor areas or a bunch of demonic snow or something that affects your movement or friction.

 

Other ice related abilities could include:

* Something with reflecting/richochet projectiles (i think Heretic's Iron Lich or the Wendigo from Hexen had this) that would turn the battlefield into a game of Hell ice hockey.

* Maybe something with shields, walls or platforms and blocks. (BattleMode's PE could summon a shield of souls and shoot it, which is kinda like the player's chaingun shield)

* Forming clouds dropping snow, like the Tome of Power's effect for Hellstaff Heretic. (would function like a mix of DHunter/Tyrant's aerial/falling rockets and Cybermanc's acid areas or even the sky laser beams Khan Maykr spawns)

* Maybe just creative projectile patterns or some mechanic that wasn't tried yet.

* Like the Tesla rocket, modern BFG tracers or those electric eyes summoner by Samur.

* Maybe wind or tornados too.

 

I also thought an ice theme could fit like a subspecies of Cacodemons or another "floating head" type, which is a category i don't think id hasn't done much with.

Like floating things with more mouths, tentacles, brains, cybernetics, some new colors

Or also a rock/stone theme, like how there's a fire Baron.

The Marauder sort of fills the "medieval" theme but i wonder about demons with a cultist "hood" theme like a throwback ot those Watchers in Doom 2 RPG or Heretic/Hexen.

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O/T: That makes me think about a demon with an ice bomb-type ability (slow down). And the only way to avoid the full duration of the effect is to use your flame belch, or wait for the cooldown on it, then use it. 

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I don't like the idea of adding a new slow-down thing. I'd hate it and I think it wouldn't add anything interesting to the gameplay but making battles more annoying. I have enough with the purple mucus in some areas.

Edited by Martin-CAI

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I also remember the BattleMod Manc having some flashbomb like ability.

Because of the fogs in Blood Swamps, maybe there could be and enemy that spawns fog-like clouds just to make it harder to see, but something like the flame belch could put away those clouds.

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We need a marauder with SSG ballista \ ice combo but no shield. 

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Chain gunner with chain gun shield mod. Use Plasma to counter the shielding. Spews bullets and belches flame on death. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, Pegg said:

We need a marauder with SSG ballista \ ice combo but no shield. 

Nah, we just need a Marauder who is equipped with a chainsaw instead of an Argent sword, and yes it's a one hit kill (or quick time event for a chance to lose only 50% health and armor). And his dog companion can bite and hold onto you, reducing your movement speed. Possibly equipped with an "ice belch." I can see the busted controllers now... 🤔

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16 hours ago, SYS said:

Chain gunner with chain gun shield mod. Use Plasma to counter the shielding. Spews bullets and belches flame on death. 

That would make sense if security zombies had a similar shotgun as the player, so they also had the same mods.

Or Zombiemen with either the heavy cannon or even either the 2016 pistol or even the cut one.

 

I'm also surprised they haven't done actual Plasma Rifle carrying zombiemen yet.

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6 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I'm also surprised they haven't done actual Plasma Rifle carrying zombiemen yet.

 

The Possessed Soldiers in 2016 had a Plasma Rifle model fused to their right arm. The Plasma Rifle Codex entry also mentions how the weapon has become "standard issue" among military units. Likely the explanation why they used projectiles instead of bullets. Not sure if the Eternal variants kept the Plasma Rifle model on their arm.

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