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digithead100

No love for Hell Revealed 2 in Doomworld's 100 most memorable maps

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Okay so I get that this list is just someone's opinion. I understand and respect that and I do think its a pretty good list. But, I'm surprised not one map from HR2 made it onto this list. Map 15,27,29 and 32 would've all been great picks, not just because they're good but also cause they're memorable. Did the community not like this WAD as much as I did?

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HR2 is divisive. It's well-liked enough to be #15 on this list, but I've seen quite a lot of people express their dislike for it, as in this thread. There are probably hundreds of maps that could have gone on the "100 most memorable maps" list but didn't.

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100 maps is not much. Not squeezing into such a small group doesn't say a great deal.

Edited by rd.

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Considering 100 maps is really not much when looking at the quality stuff that the community has been making for decades, it's no surprise it didn't make it through.

 

Besides, for me personally, HR2 is one of the worst wads I've ever played. I utterly despise that piece of crap. May it be forever forgotten.

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I'm a big fan of HR2 , but I have to admit that a lot of maps are pretty forgettable , especially in terms of aesthetics. Maybe "Hell's Cauldron" or "Playground" due to the extreme difficulty for its time could fit in the top...

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I don’t hate HR2 and I’ll never forget the thrill the first few maps gave me, but I can see how many people aren’t big on it. I’ve never played it to completion.

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3 hours ago, seed said:

 

HR2 is one of the worst wads I've ever played. I utterly despise that piece of crap. May it be forever forgotten.

Why? Im curious.

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8 minutes ago, JuanchoES said:

Why? Im curious.

 

Bad combat that borders on cheap spam on occasion, and hideously ugly, flat, boring level design.

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6 hours ago, rd. said:

100 maps is not much. Not squeezing into such a small group doesn't say a great deal.

 

yeah, i've barely dented the Doom continuum at reviewing just over 6,000 maps and I would be hard-pressed to give HR2 a seat at a table of 100 just off the top of my head. Its 32 levels make up about 0.5% of everything that I've personally played, let alone the near-infinitude that I have not

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It's hard to really say that an HR2 map could deserve a spot in that countdown (my best pick would be MAP19 for its bridge trickery and numerous traps in that case). One of the reasons is that so many maps are more or less sequels/homages to previous maps in HR (and in one case, a sequel to a Memento Mori map). In fairness, only one HR1 map even made the list for that matter. Perhaps another reason is that almost every one of the HR-inspired wads we've seen ended up eclipsing both HR wads as well.

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4 hours ago, seed said:

Besides, for me personally, HR2 is one of the worst wads I've ever played. I utterly despise that piece of crap. May it be forever forgotten.

 

Heh there's "wads I like" and "wads I dislike" but HR2 is in a special category of "wads that actively make me angry". I even come back to it every few years (even recently) to see if my opinion changed, but all that happens is a fresh calcification of my hatred. The amount of pop-up traps, tight-quarters slaughter, and "Fill the geometry to its physical limit of enemies" philosophy just make my blood boil. And this is coming from someone who made his share of crappy HR tribute monster spam maps.

 

Whew ok therapy session over!

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4 minutes ago, Vorpal said:

 

Heh there's "wads I like" and "wads I dislike" but HR2 is in a special category of "wads that actively make me angry". I even come back to it every few years (even recently) to see if my opinion changed, but all that happens is a fresh calcification of my hatred. The amount of pop-up traps, tight-quarters slaughter, and "Fill the geometry to its physical limit of enemies" philosophy just make my blood boil. And this is coming from someone who made his share of crappy HR tribute monster spam maps.

  

Whew ok therapy session over!

Didn't know that HR2 was so much hated LOL

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9 hours ago, digithead100 said:

Map 15,27,29 and 32 would've all been great picks, not just because they're good but also cause they're memorable.

I suppose it's a subjective matter, but I fail to see how 27 is memorable, its inspiration was much better executed (and even so, not that special). Anyway, as previous posters mentioned HR2 is VERY divisive (emphasis on very) and definitely not for everyone, which may have contributed to its omission from the list. Personally I prefer the original, though HR2 has much more enjoyable combat (at least to my playstyle) despite most levels looking straight out of 1994.

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9 hours ago, digithead100 said:

Okay so I get that this list is just someone's opinion. I understand and respect that and I do think its a pretty good list. But, I'm surprised not one map from HR2 made it onto this list. Map 15,27,29 and 32 would've all been great picks, not just because they're good but also cause they're memorable. Did the community not like this WAD as much as I did?

 

HR2 has always had a weird mixed bag reaction from the community due to its difficultly which is odd to me consider that there are much more harder megawads out there now that exist now such as Dues Vult 2 & Sunder. Also a reminder that Hell Revealed 2 was a top 10 winner of the 2004 Cacowards which I think its worth mentioning how impactful it was to the community.

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To tell the truth i find myself really enjoying HR2, maybe on UV its crap, but on lower difficulties it plays like a charm and the map has some interesting quirks, like elevated corridors and some plataforming. Also i have an especial love for fake 3D bridges, and most maps has one at least, so well, i enjoy it.

I think that its a good homenage to he original, with less "learning on map making" by the authors, but yes, it become a little repetitive.

 

Highlights to the soundtrack, the graphics, and one of the most important things of it: Yonnatan Donner played it and approved it as a sequel. 

 

I recently started replaying it, and the only thing that throw me off was that there was no proper text screens, as i was lazy to make them, i went with something more "complete"  ;P

 

Aside from that, i was having a blast.

 

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22 minutes ago, Philnemba said:

 

HR2 has always had a weird mixed bag reaction from the community due to its difficultly which is odd to me consider that there are much more harder megawads out there now that exist now such as Dues Vult 2 & Sunder. Also a reminder that Hell Revealed 2 was a top 10 winner of the 2004 Cacowards which I think its worth mentioning how impactful it was to the community.

I guess its the level design more than anything.

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Hr2 map 32 definitely should be very far high up there in terms of impact it had on evolution of maps of similar genre. It's just something that's not widely recognized by community.

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15 minutes ago, j4rio said:

Hr2 map 32 definitely should be very far high up there in terms of impact it had on evolution of maps of similar genre. It's just something that's not widely recognized by community.

I'm sure it'd get featured in top100 memorable slaughter maps, or a Roots article inspecting the genre. It explores some herding and prioritizing design choices that'd influence later hardcore mappers, however as far as widespread memorability goes, it is just another extreme version of hr22 along with the contemporary av32 and later ks31.

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I think you're underselling it. Back then it was THE map everybody wanted to have a successful run of plastered over youtube. The amount of demo activity on it surpasses all your mentions by substantial amount.

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12 minutes ago, dew said:

I'm sure it'd get featured in top100 memorable slaughter maps, or a Roots article inspecting the genre. It explores some herding and prioritizing design choices that'd influence later hardcore mappers, however as far as widespread memorability goes, it is just another extreme version of hr22 along with the contemporary av32 and later ks31.

Its odd you consider Playground to be the Resistance Is Futile homage, since HR2 MAP27 is a thing. Its even called Resistance Remains!!!

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HR2 has this problem where after a while, the level designers gave up and just plop you in a room with 1000 enemies and give you tons and tons of ammo. The later levels are excruciatingly boring compared to HR1 which was much better paced. It makes the WAD as a whole hard to enjoy and contributes to HR2 having a mixed reception. 

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I tried to complete it some time ago, and just like @seed, I find the levels too boring, simplistic, cheap and with a dreadful combat philosophy. While HR1 is iconic, HR2 fails as a sequel to what was practically the founder of the slaughtermap genre. On an extra note, I blame HR2 for my slight dislike of Slaughtermaps.  :P

 

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I don’t hate HR2 and I’ll never forget the thrill the first few maps gave me, but I can see how many people aren’t big on it. I’ve never played it to completion.

Just out of curiosity, is there anything you really don't like, or Doom gods forbid, hate? You always seem to have such a nice stand towards anything Doom <3

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It's not really just HR2, since a lot of popular WADs aren't represented. I don't think there was anything from the Memento Moris or the DTWID series, or Epic 2 or Unholy Realms and so on. 100 maps isn't actually that many though considering how far back the history of Doom WADs goes.

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5 minutes ago, Midnight_00 said:

It's not really just HR2, since a lot of popular WADs aren't represented. I don't think there was anything from the Memento Moris or the DTWID series, or Epic 2 or Unholy Realms and so on. 100 maps isn't actually that many though considering how far back the history of Doom WADs goes.

I noticed Memento Mori didn't get a mention either, not even in the runners up, though to be fair, I vaguely even remember any maps. Though 31 on the first one would probably had gotten a mention if a lot of others didn't make it, albeit would've been more infamous.

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20 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

HR2 has this problem where after a while, the level designers gave up and just plop you in a room with 1000 enemies and give you tons and tons of ammo. The later levels are excruciatingly boring compared to HR1 which was much better paced. It makes the WAD as a whole hard to enjoy and contributes to HR2 having a mixed reception. 

 

To be fair, hr1 aged just as poorly, but people keep on judging it with rose-tinted glasses. First episode is a bunch of forgettable bland techbases with little to nothing going for them. That's one third of entire wad. A very prevalent theme onwards is having little to no ammo against heaps of meat, so you can easily end up ssging everything. It has some maps that withstood the trial of aging, but then again the exact same can be said for hr2.

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From a pistol start, I find HR much more of a slog to get through than its sequel - about half of the levels require a lot of SSG spam because you have too few rockets/cells to dispatch the huge amounts of meat, whereas on HR2 that problem occurs only in MAP28 and Metabolist's levels off the top of my head.

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21 minutes ago, Salahmander2 said:

I noticed Memento Mori didn't get a mention either, not even in the runners up, though to be fair, I vaguely even remember any maps. Though 31 on the first one would probably had gotten a mention if a lot of others didn't make it, albeit would've been more infamous.

I find 28 in MM1 and 15 and 27 in MM2 to be most memorable from those two, though even those are fairly tame compared to many of the maps on the top 100 list.

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10 hours ago, dew said:

I'm sure it'd get featured in top100 memorable slaughter maps

I can’t wait to read that article :)

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