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Ryath (aka scwiba)

The UnMaking: a 33-map nightmare for Doom 64 (HUGE update)

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5 minutes ago, Ryath said:

They're a bit unpredictable, yes. You might even say "Manic."

Well, I thought it was intentional. Like some evil entity took and left them in a weird state.

Now for eternity they shoot at everything they see. :)

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7 minutes ago, LuciferSam86 said:

Well, I thought it was intentional. Like some evil entity took and left them in a weird state.

Now for eternity they shoot at everything they see. :)

I like this explanation of them. They're sort of... halfway possessed soldiers.

 

I didn't set up any of their behavior -- just used what was already there. They're actually the marine "bots" used in the Doom 64 title sequence. When you place them in a regular map they'll attack enemies on sight but also attack the player if they make any noise. I noticed that behavior when I was messing around with them and thought it was interesting, so I decided to base a couple maps around them.

Spoiler

You'll see them again as a major part of map15 (if you haven't gotten there already).

 

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21 hours ago, Ryath said:

I like this explanation of them. They're sort of... halfway possessed soldiers.

 

I didn't set up any of their behavior -- just used what was already there. They're actually the marine "bots" used in the Doom 64 title sequence. When you place them in a regular map they'll attack enemies on sight but also attack the player if they make any noise. I noticed that behavior when I was messing around with them and thought it was interesting, so I decided to base a couple maps around them.

 

Yeah, you can easily figure out this behavior once you realize that the marines in the title screen map were actually shooting at the player character all along! This wasn't really noticeable in the original N64 release due to the limited screen resolution, but the Nightdive remaster made it really obvious, as this time you can easily see an invincible Doomguy being shot near the edge of the map.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, D.Vile said:

 

Yeah, you can easily figure out this behavior once you realize that the marines in the title screen map were actually shooting at the player character all along! This wasn't really noticeable in the original N64 release due to the limited screen resolution, but the Nightdive remaster made it really obvious, as this time you can easily see an invincible Doomguy being shot near the edge of the map.

True! That's surprising to me though because from my experience they only turn against the player based on sound, and I can't imagine there's a way the player makes any sound in the titlemap.

 

EDIT: Also added some episode names to the map list just for fun. They don't appear anywhere in the wad but I figured why not.

Edited by Ryath

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Ryath said:

True! That's surprising to me though because from my experience they only turn against the player based on sound, and I can't imagine there's a way the player makes any sound in the titlemap.

 

 

You can technically use a macro command called "Thing_Alert" to cause all tagged monsters to become active and hostile towards the player.

Edited by D.Vile

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Posted (edited)

Hello, sorry if I sound like a dolt but i am confus.

 

I first beat Doom64 on Project64 (N64 emulator) and loved it. (That was in those heady turn-of-the millenium days when FLCL came out. Ahh... the memories...)

 

Then I played a port of Doom64 for the Doomsday Engine. (For me, post-Haruko era. Ah, she will always have special place in my heart. Ahem.)

 

Then I got Brutal Doom 64 running, like when it came out. It's running on Zandronum engine AFAIK. Uses DOOM2.WAD as IWAD.

Just tried to install Doom64 EX to play your megawad and dropped DOOM2.WAD into the same folder as DOOM64.EXE and start the launcher, select my resolution... and ... "IWAD not found".

What am I doing wrong?

 

UPDATE: I put

-iwad .\doom2.wad

 

into Other Parameters field and now the error becomes:

 

"Textures section not found in IWAD"

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3 minutes ago, marco.nadal.75 said:

Hello, sorry if I sound like a dolt but i am confus.

 

I first beat Doom64 on Project64 (N64 emulator) and loved it. (That was in those heady turn-of-the millenium days when FLCL came out. Ahh... the memories...)

 

Then I played a port of Doom64 for the Doomsday Engine. (For me, post-Haruko era. Ah, she will always have special place in my heart. Ahem.)

 

Then I got Brutal Doom 64 running, like when it came out. It's running on Zandronum engine AFAIK. Uses DOOM2.WAD as IWAD.

Just tried to install Doom64 EX to play your megawad and dropped DOOM2.WAD into the same folder as DOOM64.EXE and start the launcher, select my resolution... and ... IWAD not found.

What am I doing wrong?

 

You have to use a program called Wadgen to convert a Doom 64 rom into an IWAD file.

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13 minutes ago, D.Vile said:

 

You have to use a program called Wadgen to convert a Doom 64 rom into an IWAD file.

 

Got it, thanks!!

I did the Wadgen shuffle and put -file .\unmaking_fix.wad into the Other Parameter field, everything proper now.

 

I play with 360 pad 'cause Doom64 EX dev blog explained it was keeping it old school like Doom Retro (love the automap on the second screen) so no jumping, crouching or looking up and down. I mostly play GZ and Zandro with gaming mouse and keyboard but no problem.

 

Played the first map, after taking the Berserk I went to the service tunnels and hit the power switch... the whole station came to life and ... I had forgotten how cute D64-guy's gardening gloves looked! Awww... @_@ Not so for the Demons and Possessed when they experienced the classic Hokuto Shinken full body explodey whatcharekkonofzetmove!? I kept going only using the punch but my disdain for the pistol caught up with me when an Imp's green fireball finished me off in the green armor room.

What a great start!! I look forward to playing your saga... I'm sorely tempted to assemble my new Ryzen system and get into streaming just so I can blind run your megawad. Haha everyone have a good time i see you later.

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All right, let's take stock of where I am with this :) I started episode 3 tonight and am about a third of the way through it - and just like I said for the first two episodes, you continue your amazing talent for using the building blocks of the game in new and unexpected ways! I'm completely unfamiliar with how any of Doom 64 works so even the normal stuff sometimes comes as a surprise to me. Amazing work as always

 

 

 

 

 

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Once I have thinked that for Heretic in general there are few wads in comparison with Doom and even fewer of them are solid ones. The presence as such in principle and even suitable in the case of Doom 64 against this background is a completely statistical error.

 

About difference of official release and Doom 64 EX you can read here: https://doom64ex.wordpress.com/2020/03/24/differences-between-doom-64-ex-2-5-versus-the-official-remaster/

 

If you are not familiar with Doom 64, then briefly it can be described as follows: Doom on the Quake engine with a bias in the atmosphere of horror, with its own storyline, which was later recognized as the canon, new design, but slow gameplay and a cut-down number of monster types.

 

Settings and Features:

 

1. First you need to get DOOM 64 EX. You can get it here: https://doom64ex.wordpress.com. Downloads section, doom64ex_2.5_win32, maybe doom64ex_sdl_fix will come in handy.

2. You will need 2 additional files - doom64.wad and doomsnd.sf2. For that you will need original Nintendo 64 ROM and read the instruction how to deal with it.

3. Next, after adding all the files to, for example E: \ Games \ Old \ Doom \ doom64ex_2.5_win32 \, select Launcher.exe, settings, at the end in "Other Parameters" specify -file unmaking_fix.wad

 

An alternative way, in particular if the parameter is not saved at next run, create a shortcut to DOOM64.exe and in the Target line (launch line) write E: \ Games \ Old \ Doom \ doom64ex_2.5_win32 \ DOOM64.EXE - E: \ Games \ Old \ Doom \ doom64ex_2.5_win32 \ unmaking_fix.wad

 

4. Before playing, I recommend making a few more settings. Options -> Controls -> Bindings -> Use -> Space. Options -> Controls -> Mouse -> Mouse Look is disabled by default + mouse is slow enough.

 

Doom_64_EX_1.png.13ee15790e72612ba5662cc63fac7509.png

 

I took such settings.

 

5. Next, you can go through a number of options in Setup, Display and Video.

 

Doom_64_EX_2.png.cea220399f7dbe6100c346f36027b722.pngDoom_64_EX_3.png.96cf73dcbb35ae36eec8f933a225eb8f.pngDoom_64_EX_4.png.d420580a4713a0ce1bcbf9ee43f3279f.png

 

There are a couple of interesting settings you can find in Setup in the N64 Compatibility. Limit Lost Souls. Due to what appears to be hardware, pain elementals were able to release a maximum of 17 lost souls each. There was no such problem on a PC, so disable the setting. The second point is the ability to pick up highly placed objects without using a jump. Theoretically it can be useful, for example at level 32, on the other side it can act as a cheat at, for example, level 10, allowing you to pick up a key and weapons without going through a series of traps.

 

* Jumping to 64 EX is disabled by default.

 

(?) From an annoying moment - the map switches between 2 types in the style of Doom and in the style of Quake / Duke Nukem 3D. On the first one, you can enable the display of doors that require keys, on the second one cannot. In this case opening / closing a map each time requires 2, not 1, click + the second one slows down a little. If someone knows how this aspect can be adjusted only for the first style - let me know.

 

* Completed on "I Own Doom!"

* I did not collect 100% of secrets, as well as it is difficult to judge whether they remained due to bugs in the port.

* MAP13 - "When Hell Freezes Over". For a teleport-exit to appear on this map you need to destroy ~ 120-124 enemies.

* MAP14 - "Sicklied Symmetry". There is a hint at the beginning of the level. Enemies here seem to appear endlessly. By the end of the level I had killed 38 of 1976+. The counter, however, clearly shows a wrong number. The bottom line is that new types of monsters will appear on the map while you shoot some of the old ones. At some point 1 red will appear among the barons. You need to get rid of him. After that two platforms will go down, you will need to press 2 switches - most of the enemies will disappear and you can go to the next level.

* On MAP15 - "Mercurial Minions" you can find both hostile (same as on other maps) and friendly soldiers. In the original, as I remember, these were no any. New enemies types also include greenish, ghostly versions of regular enemies.

* On MAP20 - "Misaligned and Maligned" to set the platforms to the correct height leading to the yellow key do not use the second (left to right) switch.

* At the last level, #28, you need to kill ~ 320 enemies before the final ghost boss will appear.

 

(?) secret map #1. I didn't got onto map #32. Did not find how, no any obvious switches or missed niches...

 

Secret map #2. To get to #29 "Remote Control" from map #4, you need to tinker a little with the platforms. By the time you get to the exit pay attention to the inconspicuous elevator in the wall to the left. Climb on it and with the proper skill it will be possible to jump over into the purple gate, which is opposite. Platform #5 won't help here because the maximum level to which it can be raised is lower. Through the windows you can see a key hidden in the vault behind a blue door. To get to the door you need the next platform, #4, and to get the blue key, you need to look into another passage from another platform, which is next to the left, where you have not been before. To do this make platform in a such row:

 

Doom_64_EX_MAP04_1.png.ac0a0cc12b19e2f0d4738da010c86334.pngDoom_64_EX_MAP04_2.png.228ff796232b234e90326f9fafc057bc.png

 

Here you can go in the left passage for the blue key. Then return to the door, which is accessible from platform #4. There is also a secret behind platform #1. Behind the platform controls there is a yellow door and a secret exit.

 

No idea how to capture the rune here...

 

Secret map #3. To get to it, you need to build the correct sequence of open doors in map #12 "Walled Garden" + you need a blue key. The key can be found simply by pressing all the buttons in a particular location sequentially, one after another, and destroying new enemies, that will appear. There is only one door leading to the center of the map. It should be open, like another neighboring one. I will not tell you the exact sequence, the only thing I can note is that the main sequence consists of only 2 buttons - the first one opens the passage directly to the blue door, the other to the section to the door that precedes this passage. Each button opens or closes 2 doors. To pick up the rune at level 30, pay attention to the openings on the left when you fight the barons of hell. Having climbed on one of the platforms, you can return with a rune to the same location. The boss here, by the way, can be flattened by the same mechanism.

 

Secret map #4. MAP #18 - "Going Nowhere Fast". After you get the red key next to the cyberdemon and return to the beginning of the location instead of going to the door, which was also next to him, go northwest of the starting point. A small red icon can be found on one of the platforms. By clicking on it you will open a teleport, which will move you to the exit to the secret level. At the secret level make a save at the start. The situations here are generated randomly and you will only be able to get the rune if the game allows you to do it. With a fortunate coincidence the teleport at the end will move you to one and will not lead to the fact that you leave the level. After that you may need to poke the exit doors and the switch in the center of the last location several times before you can leave the level.

 

Pros:

 

+ Despite the general modesty of the possibilities that Doom 64 allows against the background of the usual Doom and the tight deadlines that the author set for himself, a fairly balanced and interesting wad came out. What could not be played up with design and wide possibilities is compensated by a frightening atmosphere, mysticism (in episode 3) and an interesting combination of mechanisms.

+ No mediocre maps.

+ Well-rendered horror atmosphere. In particular, on MAP05 "Ghost Stories", where you can meet a number of ghostly opponents. Some are completely killable, but, for example, the baron of hell or a cyberdemon will disappear after a few shots as ghosts, but they can kill you. There is also a non-killable cacodemon that will follow you all over the map no worse than some Mr. X from Resident Evil 2.

+ Most of the levels are compact locations with different types of puzzles and a small number of monsters, less than 100.

+ MAP02 - "Maniac Marines". A successful combination of puzzles and crowds of opponents. Having only a pistol as a weapon you need to find a combination of the former with the latter, so that most enemies destroy their own kind.

+ MAP03 - "Hexcomplex". The entire level consists of platforms-hexagons, stepping on which you can change it's architecture within one closed small arena, which is also a hex in a turn. As you click on these panels new opponents appear, a total of 140 enemies here I've found.

+ MAP32 - "Remote Control". The player is fixed in a small tower measuring 1 meter by 1 meter from where you need to shoot enemies and hit the buttons in order to continue progressing through the level. There is a rune on this card, but I did not figure out how to get it...

+ MAP06 - "Sardine Packing Plant". The map with the self-explanatory name is even smaller in size than MAP03 was. 64 opponents, close-range battles and press, which can help you fight with those.

+ MAP08 - "The UnAbsolution". A joke card with 1 enemy in a tiny location, where BFG is immediately issued. It is also a preface to two other episodes.

+ MAP09 - "Dig Your Own Grave". A dark gothic-style map at the end of which you may need to kill 4 cacodemons with fist only.

+ MAP10 - "Blast Processing". The entire puzzle level is built around the interaction with explosive barrels. And practically only at the expense of them you need to destroy most of the opponents. Also, the map is remarkable in that in one place to open 4 gates you will need to aim a homing projectile at 4 cacodemones.

+ MAP11 - "Crosswind Crossfire". To pick up the blue sphere you need to light a torch near the location of such.

+ MAP30 - "No Going Back".

+ MAP15 - "Mercurial Minions" Not a bad fortress map that is not overloaded with unnecessary elements or complicated puzzles. At the end will be a battle with waves of opponents, the last of which will be a cyberdemon.

+ MAP16 - "The Infinity Gantlet". A small map in the form of an infinity icon or, if you prefer, an eight, which gives a new meaning to the phrase "circles of hell" - 2 cyberdemons, 2 platforms and cacodemones constantly appearing nearby and, sometimes, pain elementals, angrily laughing at their appearance will not let you get bored. In my case, it was required to destroy 50 opponents before I took both secrets and left the map.

+ MAP24 - "Remember the Hellamo". For ~ 10,5 minutes you will need to defend youself in a small fortress, the walls of which will gradually disappear. 163 opponents.

 

Contras:

 

* Not so much a clear minus as the peculiarity of the 64 EX port. It is essentially impossible to name the exact number of opponents on the map, since there is a bug that will display the number more than the actual number. For this reason it is often impossible to get 100% of killed enemies and same may go to secrets.

- Some items cannot be picked up on MAP32.

? MAP18 - "Going Nowhere Fast". Not a good solution with a timer at the beginning of the level, requiring a completely insane reaction speed to get to the switch. In my best attempt, I didn't have  about ~ 1,5-2 more seconds to do it. As a result I used noclip for that switch.

 

Update from 7.02.21, author commentary:

Quote

Yeah, you shouldn't be trying to do both the barrel maze and the damaging liquid area back to back (though it IS technically possible if you take shortcuts in the first part and haul major ass in the second). Each section ends in a switch that opens access from the hub to the next section.

This kinda gives me an idea for a new secret though...

Edited by UnknDoomer

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Hi @Ryath (alias scwiba)

 

then, you did a great job again more maps for DOOM 64 again more fun ! I support you keep up the good work !

 

I would also like to ask you if you would agree if I work on a new version of your campaign, Basically it means I redo the 33 maps by adding the effects and the new Brutal DOOM 64 daemons on the maps, and make it compatible with Brutal DOOM 64 TC REMAKE, of course i would credit your name, if you agree I would put your campaign in my list of future campaigns to redo for the future of Brutal DOOM 64 TC ^^

 

best regards,

styd051

Edited by styd051

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Hi everyone! Thank you for all the comments, though I've somehow missed everything here since early January. Just now catching up on the recent posts.

 

Very long response to @UnknDoomer below. Spoilering just to shorten the post:
 

Spoiler


On 1/27/2021 at 12:00 PM, UnknDoomer said:

The second point is the ability to pick up highly placed objects without using a jump. Theoretically it can be useful, for example at level 32, on the other side it can act as a cheat at, for example, level 10, allowing you to pick up a key and weapons without going through a series of traps.

 

* Jumping to 64 EX is disabled by default.

A revised version of the wad coming soon features a lot of little changes to help prevent items from being grabbed early due to this issue. That includes the blue key on map10. Regarding jumping, I haven't tested any maps with jump enabled and it should be considered a cheat.

 

On 1/27/2021 at 12:00 PM, UnknDoomer said:

* MAP13 - "When Hell Freezes Over". For a teleport-exit to appear on this map you need to destroy ~ 120-124 enemies.

* At the last level, #28, you need to kill ~ 320 enemies before the final ghost boss will appear.

Neither of these maps' progression is tied directly to how many enemies you kill. On map13 it's a matter of simply running out a timer, and on map28 you're required just to kill a few specific enemies.

 

On 1/27/2021 at 12:00 PM, UnknDoomer said:

(?) secret map #1. I didn't got onto map #32. Did not find how, no any obvious switches or missed niches...

I won't spoil here exactly how this secret exit works but it is very similar to Doom 64's exit to Hectic. Once you have completed the necessary actions a door will open to a teleporter.

 

On 1/27/2021 at 12:00 PM, UnknDoomer said:

+ MAP09 - "Dig Your Own Grave". A dark gothic-style map at the end of which you may need to kill 4 cacodemons with fist only.

There should be enough ammo on all skill settings to kill everything without having to resort to your fists. However, part of the gimmick of the map is that if you haven't gathered all the goodies on each phase before lowering to the next, you have... as they say, dug your own grave.

 

On 1/27/2021 at 12:00 PM, UnknDoomer said:

* Not so much a clear minus as the peculiarity of the 64 EX port. It is essentially impossible to name the exact number of opponents on the map, since there is a bug that will display the number more than the actual number. For this reason it is often impossible to get 100% of killed enemies and same may go to secrets.

- Some items cannot be picked up on MAP32.

- MAP18 - "Going Nowhere Fast". Not a good solution with a timer at the beginning of the level, requiring a completely insane reaction speed to get to the switch. In my best attempt, I didn't have  about ~ 1,5-2 more seconds to do it. As a result I used noclip for that switch.

The issue with incorrect monster counts is due to Doom 64's spawn function. I've tried to address it as best as possible in the newer version but you're correct 100% kills is not always doable. However, 100% secrets should always be possible.

 

Could you let me know which items you mean in map32?

 

Which section of map18 did you have trouble with? The part with the barrels or the damaging liquid?

 

(Thank you also for all the great feedback and compliments! I'm really glad you liked the wad.)

 

 

On 2/4/2021 at 11:16 AM, styd051 said:

Hi @Ryath (alias scwiba)

 

then, you did a great job again more maps for DOOM 64 again more fun ! I support you keep up the good work !

 

I would also like to ask you if you would agree if I work on a new version of your campaign, Basically it means I redo the 33 maps by adding the effects and the new Brutal DOOM 64 daemons on the maps, and make it compatible with Brutal DOOM 64 TC REMAKE, of course i would credit your name, if you agree I would put your campaign in my list of future campaigns to redo for the future of Brutal DOOM 64 TC ^^

 

best regards,

styd051

This would need to be based on the updated version of the wad, which at the moment is still in the works. I'll give this offer some thought and let you know when the new version is ready.

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@Ryath (aka scwiba),

 

Quote

Could you let me know which items you mean in map32?

Armor and something else. Two or three in total.

 

Quote

Which section of map18 did you have trouble with? The part with the barrels or the damaging liquid?

As I've said. Timer at the starting point. Not enough time to run to the the first switch, no matter how good I've tried.

Edited by UnknDoomer

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1 hour ago, UnknDoomer said:

@Ryath (aka scwiba)

 

As I've said. Timer at the starting point. Not enough time to run to the the first switch, no matter how good I've tried.

 

You mean the switch before the area with the damaging liquid ? The one that is supposed to open a shortcut to said area ? And you know the shortcut is supposed to stay permanently open after you hit said switch, right ?

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You mean the switch before the area with the damaging liquid ?

No. Right after it.

The one that is supposed to open a shortcut to said area ?

Well. Looks like I didn't find one back in the day and that's a reason of my trouble?

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Yeah, you shouldn't be trying to do both the barrel maze and the damaging liquid area back to back (though it IS technically possible if you take shortcuts in the first part and haul major ass in the second). Each section ends in a switch that opens access from the hub to the next section.

 

This kinda gives me an idea for a new secret though...

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Hey friends! The long promised but much delayed update is finally ready! Rerelease candidate 1 of The UnMaking includes changes to every single map in the wad, plus an all new Map26. You can see all the changes in the OP.

 

If you haven't given the mapset a try yet, now is a better time than ever. This is more or less the definitive edition, and it's the build I'll be using to create a version that's compatible with the Steam release. Also anyone who might be interested in porting The UnMaking to GZDoom (@Nevander, @styd051, or others), please use this version as a starting point.

 

Thanks to everyone who has played or will be playing! Feedback is still welcome!

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Posted (edited)

Did the steam version compatible re release ever come out?

 

Update:

Lol you answered my question already that's what I get for not checking the thread fully

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2 hours ago, AnonKaiju said:

Did the steam version compatible re release ever come out?

 

Update:

Lol you answered my question already that's what I get for not checking the thread fully

No worries! Sadly it's not out yet but with the new method of wad patching that they devised over on the Doom 64 Discord I don't think it will be long now. 

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On 5/16/2021 at 1:08 PM, Ryath (aka scwiba) said:

Also anyone who might be interested in porting The UnMaking to GZDoom

I would always love to have more maps ported to my TC. I have a lot of others I still want to do. Thank you for allowing your work to get the porting treatment!

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On 5/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, Ryath (aka scwiba) said:

Also anyone who might be interested in porting The UnMaking to GZDoom

I would love to do the porting to GZDoom if no one else is doing it already.

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I would love to play this, but unfortunately Doom 64 Ex does not work for me. Even after installing the dll fix, it runs at like 15fps. Based on my understanding, Doom 64 Ex doesn't work properly on updated versions of Windows 10. I have tried everything and it seems nothing works.

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Posted (edited)

What is this I have stumbled upon? This looks freaking INCREDIBLE. Gonna try this out immediately!

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Just now, PSXDoomer said:

What is this I have stumbled upon? This looks freaking INCREDIBLE. Gonna try this out immediately!

If you get it to work, please let me know what you did :)

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43 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I would love to play this, but unfortunately Doom 64 Ex does not work for me. Even after installing the dll fix, it runs at like 15fps. Based on my understanding, Doom 64 Ex doesn't work properly on updated versions of Windows 10. I have tried everything and it seems nothing works.

 

I can tell you I just now played the first map of doom 64 and also unmaking on my win10 PC and had a perfect frame rate on my 144hz monitor. I don't know how to diagnose your issue but it's not win10. Sometimes adjusting vsync can have an impact on frame rate. Also there is an option in setup called "framerate: smooth or capped" make sure it is set to smooth.

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1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

If you get it to work, please let me know what you did :)

It's working perfect for me. Both Doom 64 EX and The UnMaking. I'm not sure what could be causing the issue with Doom 64 Ex on your machine. I'm not super good at trouble shooting other than try messing with the video settings. I wish I could be more helpful. :(

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I think it comes down to certain graphics cards as Doom 64 EX runs on an old version of Open GL, so some graphics cards don't seem to like it. My Windows 10 machines do run it fine, but they are all various versions of Nvidia graphics cards. 

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