"New year, new URE" - URE:E2 - E2M2 up!

[Zylinderkatze]

And of course I only answered 2 out of 3 questions >_<

 

Short Version:

1. Have 4
2. None assigned
3. Preferrably need full set of 9*
4. Profit

___

^{*If you feel extra giving and involved, I'd also be happy about an Intro (D_INTRO) and Intermission (D_VICTOR).}

[Bucket]

I'm sure I could make three songs with a similar theme. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[zokum]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:28 PM, ketmar said:

i think so. but Zokum did alot of their own research, so i'm not sure how much of Zen code actually left there.

 

thank you! just if you want some more useless info...

  Reveal hidden contents

Doom GL-BSP is quite interesting too. contrary to what Quake (and i believe all other BSP-based 3d engines out there) did, GL-BSP is storing empty space, not solids. i.e. in Quake, each BSP leaf is storing a convex solid, but in Doom, it is "convex emptyness". that's also why GL-BSP has so-called "minisegs" -- segs that aren't belong to any linedef. they're required to "close" convex contours.

 

this is clever trick, which is possible because Doom BSP is still 2D, even for OpenGL. it also allows easy creation of nav-meshes (Q3, for example, does alot of work to extract empty space from its solid-based BSP). but it also makes it quite difficult to use Doom BSP for coldet, because for fast coldet you need to use convex solids.

 

i did several attemps at BSP-based coldet for Doom, but still don't have a good solution. it "mostly works", yet to make it really work i had to add alot of hacks, and then blockmap code looks simplier (and faster too).

 

another fun fact: early Doom versions (at least up to 1.2, afair) were using blockmap for hitscan/los tracing too. but there were some bugs with corner cases Carmack was unable to properly fix, so he switched to BSP-based raycasting. Heretic is still using blockmap-based algo, tho. also, at least GZDoom (all ZDoom forks, i believe) and k8vavoom are blockmap-based too (and i recently -- well a year or more ago, but still -- found a bug in GZDoom code, that was sitting there for decades ;-).

 

oh. i prolly can write the whole book about various design aspects of Doom engines, but it's prolly enough for today. ;-)

 

A fair bit, but I did fox a ton of bugs and improve the4 algorithms and add new ones.

[Zylinderkatze]

In case of doubt, mention algorithms

 

Hello people! My back and shoulder are a lot better. And I've been thinking about map ideas, current and future, a lot more again, too.

 

Also, I am almost done with 100%-ing Horizon II, so there's one excuse less ^^ I wonder if their designs will inform any of my idea.

 

Right now I'm plagued with an onsetting cold (and since I'm a guy, I'm practically dying!) so I'm giving myself some more rest.

 

But I will be back soon-ish! I miss you guys >_<

 

~ZK

[Zylinderkatze]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:00 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

an onsetting cold

 

So. That cold? It was Covid. However, for reasons beyond my pay grade or understanding (potentially thanks to being vaccinated), it only played out as a bad cold. From which I've now recovered for the most part!

 

Then last night I had two small ideas for stuff to try out in Doom mapping and I figured "I don't have to write this down, I'll remember in the morning.." ..only that this time, I actually did!

 

So.. without any further ado, here's one of them (admittedly, a small idea):

https://streamable.com/0s3wp8

 

I think it looks pretty interesting for what it is.

 

So.. maybe I'm back?

 

*shrug*

[Bucket]

I just bought a netbook from eBay so I can get back into the vibe of composing MIDIs at 2 in the morning at an all-night diner.

[Zylinderkatze]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:23 AM, Bucket said:

I just bought a netbook from eBay so I can get back into the vibe of composing MIDIs at 2 in the morning at an all-night diner.

 

That has some sentimental quality, to me. Makes me consider mapping in other places! 

 

Congrats on the acquisition ^^

[zokum]

Doom's BSP tree isn't 2D. It describes a 3D space, but with some limitations. The third dimension is stored in the leaves. Thus for any spot on the level you can use the BSP tree to find the floor height and ceiling height. The limitation is that each X and Y coordinate can only have one floor and one ceiling height at once, but they will have them. It's basically a height map with an accompanying ceiling map as well.

The engine is also 3D as it clearly handles height. A lot of the arguments for Doom being 2D come from Doom being 3D but having an extremely simple model for collision detection in order to avoid many problematic edge cases and allow for optimizations.

You can avoid getting hit by fireballs by letting them pass above you. Firing rockets over a hole with monsters in it will not have the rockets detonate mid air due to monsters being infinitely tall. Monsters only have infinite height when performing collision detection with other monsters, the player, etc. Projectiles will take the monster height into account when checking for collisions.

There is nothing in the engine that makes it impossible to have monster over monster. They chose not to allow this in order to simplify the collision detection. As with many other games, they chose speed over accuracy, which is a perfectly valid choice. Not having a 100% accurate model of the world doesn't remove a dimension.

Most games contain simplifications in order to speed up calculations. One of the most common one is to model objects as square boxes like in Doom or as spheres etc.

In Quake 3 Arena, all player models use the same hit box. Literally a box, doesn't make it a 2D game.

[Zylinderkatze]

On 4/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, zokum said:

The third dimension is stored in the leaves.

 

While I do highly appreciate these technical insights and the almost poetic quality with which you deliver them, I suspect that post was not meant for this thread?

 

It's very welcomed but I am worried that the originally intended recipients might be missing it ^^

 

Also, yes, I am still here lurking :D

[zokum]

That could very well be, I was probably in a hurry at work. It was probably some post early in the thread :) I should have been more clear with whom I replied to.

[Zylinderkatze]

Is this mic on?

 

So I just flew in from London and boy are my arms.. what? oh. Not funny, you say? Get off the stage, you say. We're not actually an audience and you're making all of this up, you say?

 

Fine.

 

I was on a short trip to London and returned yesterday. Still not really back to mapping. I'm not sure whether this kind of update is appreciated xD

 

I did think of a few creative (?) doom-related ideas while I was there, though. Like for house fronts and the illusion of multi level houses.. but it's mostly detailing stuff (aside from one idea to reveal an ambush). That's a reason to write here, yes? :D

 

I hope all is well with you peeps.

[Zylinderkatze]

"Oi mate!"

 

He only spent less than a week in London.. tsk tsk.

 

So.. it happened.

 

Zylinderkatze is mapping again!

 

^{Is that an exit sign I (barely) see?}

 

What started off as a simple "hmm.. maybe I'll put this here as a callback to URE2020" has now developed into a "yup that's how you leave the level" concept I am pursuing with determination.

 

This is also how you get reminded of another area, off to the top right.. and get the hint that there might be a way to get to it (when the hint is done).

 

Still don't know what kind of reward it will hold but I have a few ideas! Although those will require me to either find a good way to present / tease at a pickup in a different part of the map.. or to just make the best of the level architecture I already have, because.. vanilla limits.

 

More on that later.

 

Also, there is kind of an easter egg in this map that I am spending way too much effort on with hardly anyone ever finding it, I'm suspecting.. but I want to put it there and that's all the reason I need xD

 

Btw, this is the "once you're about to actually leave" view of this area.. you start off over on the side, where the crosshair is pointing.

 

Also also, now that I am writing this: The idea I just put there to not forget was, that you open that gate on the left and then "walk" out that way. But at the same time my idea with this ship (in the middle) was that you'll arrive at the next map on it.. so either I'll have to reposition it here, so that it's not accessible until after you clear the path.. or to at least make the "W"- (or "S"-) action line that you use to exit the level not accessible until you've opened the way.

 

I have a few ideas for that already, too. We'll see.

 

Repositioning the ship might also actually help me disarm a few of the vanilla hot zones.. so enjoy this view while it lasts ^^

[Zylinderkatze]

Slow drip

 

No posts for two weeks. He stopped mapping again, didn't he.

 

Quite the contrary!

 

But there isn't that much to show, still, because I just go through existing parts of E2M2 and adjust light levels, texture alignments, shift stuff around a bit, tie up loose ends.

 

Also, I look at stuff with new eyes (don't ask me where I got them from.. I'm not at liberty to say) and generally revise previous sections to look better or feel nicer. Or both.

 

 

There is a bit of new stuff though!

 

Adjacent to the picture from the previous post..

 

..there's this loading bay.. thing?

 

^{Green and brown? quirky!}

 

The side that I am taking this picture from is actually a secret area of sorts.. without much of a payout yet (besides a backpack for now).. but it's fun to map and it looks pretty neat.

 

^{From the other side, too (already updated with a ceiling light fixture)}

 

 

Additionally!

 

Or "also also", to keep with traditions~

 

Just the other day I noticed something that's either new(ish).. or that I just always looked past: The "classic rendering" for the visual mode in UDB!

 

What?

 

^Thisum.

 

It's so helpful, especially for me (or people like me), targeting the Vanilla / Chocolate variety of looking at my maps.

 

THANK YOU, GODS OF UDB, for this inclusion :3

 

It makes all the difference for anticipating how something will actually look in engine:

 

 > 

^{That's bright enough? right? Oh.}

 

This isn't really actually that much of a good example because it's a decently lit area. I just wanted to sneak another level preview into this post ^^;

 

So yes, I am still mapping ^^

[Zylinderkatze]

Small update

 

I was spending time with people in the physical world so I didn't map that much.. but here's a little update before I go to bed:

 

Another "using vanilla textures to fake imply details" example:

 

^{PLAT1 is a workhorse.}

 

I have no clue if this console will stay this way (or in the map at all) so I wanted to at least post a screenshot ^^

 

G'night!

[Zylinderkatze]

Should've never given ZK Console rights

 

Here's another one, kind of extending from the wall a bit:

 

^{For once, textures kind of fell into place.. with a little prodding ^^;}

 

Not really done yet but I thought I'd share an early view of "more details".

 

This is all from the area close to the exit of E2M2.. which (if you know me) does not mean E2M2 is anyhere near done, though.

 

But I think I am finally getting close to 90% with E2M2. As in: "past the 80% and halfway into the infamous last 20%-stretch".

 

More soon!

[Zylinderkatze]

"When in doubt, double down"

 

So that "finish the level" console is now this:

 

^{All the consoles.}

 

There's "EXIT" signs on the way to here but I think there will also be one somewhere right within view before the player triggers the "end level".

 

Also, marvel at the failed "DOOMCUTE" attempt of a blue keycard lying on the counter / hatch, right under the crosshair.. before it's gone ^^;

 

Like me. Because it's time for sleeps!

 

Goodnight~

[Zylinderkatze]

Where did the time go?

 

It's the middle of the day here and the fact that I am on this forum during my work hours might be a good indication that I'm "burning" for URE:E2.

 

Same with the fact that I was up mapping until 2am last night.

 

It's never "half force" with this ZK dude, is it.

[Zylinderkatze]

This is an intervention..

 

"ZK, we love you, we care about you.. and so we thought we should take a step towards you to let you know that we believe you have an unhealthy obsession with this one particular computer console. Please.. stop. We're worried."

 

^No.

 

Okay.. maybe.

 

 

So I haven't even really worked on that part.. I basically just wanted to give a "now seriously" last look at the key card.

 

The keen-eyed might even spot the "EXIT" sign in the background!

 

Am I overselling this? I'm actually excited about my progress though.

 

Not in that last picture so much, though.

 

 

But this one!

 

^{Different area (further away from the exit area) but yet another console.}

 

It's in a bonus / secret area that's purely optional but once you get in there, that computer console on the right is the only way to get back out. I hope it'll be obvious enough.. but then again in order to get into that area, you had to use one like it already.. so I think you'll know to use this one to get out again, if you made it in in the first place.

 

I might try to go to bed earlier today.. so in case that works out and this is my last post for today: Goodnight xD

[Zylinderkatze]

Too dark?

 

Okay I suppose I can show you something "lighter".

 

^{What might this be?}

 

It's another one of my "let's feel out this area"-aspproaches (meaning I didn't have a concept beforehand or use one of my previous drawings). It's an optional room that's past a mandatory one.. so for now it's not very purposeful. 

 

However, I might still switch this part around and make this room the actual access to that mandatory area. For the time being, the mandatory part (with a necessary switch) doesn't have a predefined route to it, this room is one of two options I might pick. Or maybe I'll make it accessible from both directions.

 

Decisions, decisions.

 

But yes, it's all coming along nicely. I think at this time, the map is "logically" finishable.. it's just not very populated yet.

 

YET.

[Zylinderkatze]

I'm not sure what's going on.

 

Maybe I feel like I need to make up for all the days when I didn't post?

 

Maybe I should just go about this a little more structured and only post once with an "update of the day"?

 

But I don't think that really works with the way in which I operate, when mapping. Too chaotic :D

 

Either way, look!

 

^{I need to work on my "floor detailing" game}

 

Another "WIP", what a surprise- but this is basically a connection from that previous area in the last post and.. well.. some vantage point, basically.

 

 

Wait. I'll show you:

 

^{A clear sign that I mean business: I start drawing O_o}

 

1. You start at the bottom (left), then make it up to the switch (that path isn't mapped yet, hence that purple question mark on the left).
2. Your goal is the Switch in the middle.
3. ...
4. Everything else (the whole green area on the right, including the stuff from the last post and this one) is completely optional.

 

 

At this point, your only "reward" for even going up there is.. being there xD

 

I do hope I can make the experience pleasant and maybe even memorable, in that area.

 

There might be a few neat surprises and tricks~ maybe a weapon!

 

We'll see. You'll see.

 

Stay tuned!

[Zylinderkatze]

Some more moderate brightness!

 

So I was thinking.. I should share less pictures xD

 

^{Less consoles..}

 

^{..less staircases, less workhorse texture cases..}

 

..because if I show everything ahead of time.. no one will play the maps!

 

 

Nah.. I'm just kidding xD I mean- for one, I like sharing. And then I also just enjoy the mapping by itself- even if no one will ever play it ^^

 

Speaking of which, though.. I mean- showing and mapping~

 

Would anyone be curious to watch me "work" on stuff?

 

I was contemplating having twitch run on the side to share my screen while I map but I'm not sure if that's anything?

 

Let me know!

Edited June 2, 2022 by Zylinderkatze

[Bucket]

I had some luck streaming MIDI composition back in 2020. If you stream it, they will come.

[Zylinderkatze]

This is goodnight!

 

But before I go, here's a first look at my attempts to make that "question mark connection" (point number 1 from this post). 

 

^{New: The step, the incision with the light and the SUPPORT2 above}

 

It's very much a "WIP" but I need to keep the complexity low because that area is already at its vanilla limits.

 

I'll think of something tomorrow, I'm sure. May look nothing like this when its done.

 

More tomorrow~

[Zylinderkatze]

Another one of those short updates~

 

Met with real life avatars of virtual people again today so I didn't map much.. only this, really:

 

^{Perfect spot for a.. hmm.. Stimpack?}

 

Not sure if it'll stay this way (that could be my tagline xD) but it looks good to me for now.

 

Also I am wondering whether it might be a "good idea" to try and just make a whole map with only PLAT1 by now.

 

It's 1:30am.. so.. Goodnight!

[Zylinderkatze]

Comparison time!

 

So I updated the design of this passage and it looks good enough to me while staying within the Vanilla limits somehow:

 

^{It's a lot simpler now but also a lot fewer sectors and lines~}

 

The passage itself isn't obvious / inviting enough yet, I think I'll play with the light levels a little, still.

 

 

 

"Sharing it before it's gone" time!

 

There was this secret passage that needed 2 switches to proceed (at the time) so I "cleverly" hid the second switch in the part that gets revealed when the first switch lowers the highlighted (highlit?) wall.. but then I changed the whole thing.

 

But not after taking a screenshot :D

 

^shiny!

 

There will be other things like this, though, Don't worry. Or do worry, if you don't like stuff like that ^^;

Edited June 4, 2022 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Streamed for a bit, until just now

 

I'm heading to bed now.. you missed your chance! xD

 

 

I was playtesting and balancing this:

 

^{Yes, E2M2 is almost done!}

 

Current verdict: Not enough ammo and med kits for my skill level of dealing with the number of Barons of Hell I put in it on UV difficulty.

 

Other than that, pretty neat!

 

 

Sadly, I noticed that the Drawsegs Visplane Explorer can only do so much when calculating the potential heat of a map with moving parts. 

 

This is what happens when a particular lift is lowered..

 

^{Literally not cool.}

 

I doubt I can do much to fix it but I will try tomorrow.

 

For now it's good night!

Edited June 6, 2022 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Update to yesterday

 

I realized that (aside from it being niche interest), it might not be a good idea to update whether I am streaming (or not streaming anymore) by changing an existing forum post.. because I presume that post changes aren't propagated the same way that new posts would be.

 

So instead I'll just update it as a (prominent-ish) info on my profile from now on, which might be more visible if you already follow me.. and less intrusive if you just want to read about the mapping progress here :)

 

Then it might also just die down again (the "me streaming my mapping forays") but for the time being it's not any additional strain or effort, really.. and I think it might even make me go about it (even) more regularly.

 

We'll see how this goes.

 

 

Speaking of "goes"!

 

Aside from yesterday's Vanilla Limit Disaster (and realizing I didn't put enough ammo in E2M2), I also noticed and fixed..

• a few missing tags resulting in missing interactivity,
• a missing switch to open up a jump-opportunity towards a secret area
• some item placements (swapped around a Soul Sphere and a Berzerk Kit, mainly because the Berzerk came way too late)
• added a secret Invulnerability (though I might replace it for something "lesser than" on UV)

Now there's still ..

• an enemy closet that's broken (floor raising / lowering to the wrong ceiling),
• a Demon (Spectre) ambush of sorts that opens in an area that you don't have to go back to anymore at that point,
• a "bug" where you can get to the chaingun early / in a way that I didn't intend (but I'll leave it in because it's neat),
• the problem(?) that you get the Area Map (seen in the last pics of this post) very early.. which I 'll turn into a benefit somehow though
• a "playful" callback to URE2020 (interaction with the transport ships) that's going a little too far

 

I think that's it. For now, at least ^^

 

More later~

[Zylinderkatze]

ZK, you're a little too much into this whole "streaming" bit, don't you think?

 

Hear me out: While mapping, instead of using potentially Twitch-DMCA-bot-triggering playlists off of Soundcloud (even if they are marked as DMCA / royalty free).. Are you following? Instead of that, I should.. get this.. I should just fire up the excellent work of the MUS / MIDI artists here on Doomworld.

 

Any recommendations? I mean- aside from the ones that already proved going well with URE, like @Lippeth and (very potentially) @Bucket?

 

Also, among those mentioned- any suggestions which songs to use? Just any that are marked as fair use? (also let me know if you'd rather not have your music on a mapping stream).

 

Disclaimer: This is not going to give you any noticable exposure because I have.. like.. 15 followers.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Zylinderkatze

[Bucket]

I don't know, I always played my own music.

But that does inspire me to brainstorm a "24/7 Doomworld MIDI" channel on YouTube. I would have to figure out a way to make the MIDIs loop at least once instead of stop abruptly (pet peeve) and put together a nice custom Soundfont (preferably one where you can HEAR THE GOD DAMNED KICK DRUM).

[Zylinderkatze]

29 minutes ago, Bucket said:

pet peeve

 

Perfectly understandable. I mean- I don't know your reason but mine would be to hear the transition between "end of the song" and its own beginning again, especially if the musician spent time and effort on making it blend / loop nicely.

 

And another "agreed" on the kick drum, though from what I've gathered, there's as many different tastes as there are sound fonts.. I remember when my friend Amaury agreed to make music for URE2020, he almost went crazy on how he could not make sure that the song would sound the same for everyone. Which I'd say is related, to some extend at least.

 

For now I'll just stick with DRM free playlists but that MIDI channel idea sounds awesome.