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dsm

Deathmatch weapon functionality

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Holy crap! Dsm's got an idea concerning Doom 3 deathmatch! What is the world coming to???
:-P

Anyway, I've been playing Generations Arena recently and funnily enough, I got particularly hooked on the Doom class (though my fav weapons in that mod are the Q2 weapons).

So I thought, what id could do for the deathmatch part of the game (or the "proper" deathmatch installations they seemingly intend to implement after the game is shipped) is that they could make the weapons function differently in deathmatch than they do in D3 sp.

Like for instance have the players start with akimbo pistols (regardless of it being in single player or not) so that they at least have a chance when they respawn. And tone the rocket launcher down so that it fires just as unrealistically slow rockets as the old Doom rl did. Especially the bit with the rl seems imo like a decent idea, because I've heard numerous times how people think the rl's in modern fps's are unbalanced. Maybe slowing the rockets themselves down would make it a slightly more balanced and fair weapon to have in the game.
After all, deathmatch doesn't have to be all about realism and we already know that the movement speed will be faster in deathmatch, so why not make some of the other things have an old-school feel to them?.

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Err, Not completely on topic, but I think that id should do the same thing for doom 3 that they did (well, gray matter did) for RtCW and get a different team all together to work on the multiplayer side of things. Worked very well for RtCW.

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The nifty thing about Doom 3 deathmatch is that if the final game is as slow as the alpha is, ping times won't be a problem. The engine will manage to render one frame while waiting for the next packet :)

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oldschool-like: silent bfg/weapon sounds, speedy movements, and wallrunning if its possible at certain points, etc.

Please try not to make another Quake 3.

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999cop said:

oldschool-like: silent bfg/weapon sounds, speedy movements, and wallrunning if its possible at certain points, etc.

Please try not to make another Quake 3.


I don't think any of those things will be in Doom3. Those are all bugs.

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Shaviro said:

I don't think any of those things will be in Doom3. Those are all bugs.

Yeah, but it will be so darn cool if id would add them as features into the game.

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999cop said:
Yeah, but it will be so darn cool if id would add them as features into the game.

If you truly think that, You’re really going to hate doom 3.

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What? Why would I hate it? MP isn't the principal concept of Doom 3. Besides, as a matter of fact, they are exactly the reasons why I love Doom deathmatch so much over than any modern MP games nowadays. Noted: but of course, they should not be included in SP, so calm.

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Shaviro said:

I don't think any of those things will be in Doom3. Those are all bugs.

It's funny how wallrunning's been in all id games from Doom until q3. Guess they knew about the bug, just didn't feel like fixing it. Then again, some engine bugs make for more skilled gameplay -- think of bunny hopping, strafejumping, doublejumping, wallrunning, rocketjumping (not exactly a bug but a truly unintended feature).

To stay on topic, usable respawn weapons and slow rockets make players angry. I remember the endless flames about the q3 machinegun being too strong and the rockets being damn slow in q2/q3.

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Waldon said:

To stay on topic, usable respawn weapons and slow rockets make players angry. I remember the endless flames about the q3 machinegun being too strong and the rockets being damn slow in q2/q3.

People complain about slow rockets??? Wtf's up with them - the rl is usually the most unbalanced weapon of them all because it's fairly fast and because of the damage it deals out. How the fuck can they complain about it???
Bah, they're probably too used to that ridiculously over-balanced rl in Quake 1.
O_o

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One thing about the Quake 1 rocket launcher that most people don't even know about is that the rockets can fly through even the smallest of gaps. I've used this 'feature' in Team Fortress all the time, mostly to destroy their sentry guns and dispensers (which can wipe out an entire room of people if it explodes).

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dsm said:

People complain about slow rockets??? Wtf's up with them

Might be the years they spent playing multi and learning what works and what does not. Is a projectile that the enemy can simply run away from really that fun? I thought qw's rockets were the best ever in an id game, exactly because they were fast and strong.


Bah, they're probably too used to that ridiculously over-balanced rl in Quake 1.

Balance has nothing to do with how fun a DM game/map is. QW is probably the most successful multi FPS ever -- what with starting a new trend and still being played by many -- and it had basically two, maybe three usable weapons. It's the possibility of developing a wide set of skills that matters, not balance.

Best example is doom2 map01, a totally unbalanced map, absolutely loved by the best players.

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I agree with Waldon. Quake DM is awesome fun, much thanks to the rocket launcher, despite not being balanced.

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Wald: I am confused of what the word "balance" means in your book. For instance, speaking of map01, all parts of the map are fairly balanced in every respect for me. A person can be possibly stopped if one overuses BFG excessively. Each weapon seems to be reasonably usable and effective in proper needs if they are used correctly as aspect changes. Definitely it is one of the greatest examples of what skillful Doom maps are supposed to be.

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I want a Multiplayer with GOOD NETCODE that is all I ask. However I have a few questions. Does the Rocket launcher in the alpha shoot fast (for example, like the half life one) and also, if another company uses the Doom 3 engine, they can make their own netcode they don't need to use what id uses do they?

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Trasher][ said:
Alientank, I don't think there's an RL in the alpha.


Hmm I'm pretty sure there is, dunno.

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Fredrik said:

There's no RL in the alpha.


WRONG! There is a rocket launcher, plasma gun, BFG and hand grenades.

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It is not a rocket launcher because it doesn't work.

The "rocket launcher" thing that's in could just as well be a poop gun for all we know.

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Fredrik said:

It is not a rocket launcher because it doesn't work.

The "rocket launcher" thing that's in could just as well be a poop gun for all we know.


It DOES work, as do the plasma gun, BFG and the hand grenades. The RL, PG and BFG use Q3A graphics, and firing the BFG crashes the game. The hand grenades are shitty and don't harm enemies when they explode. Also, there is a railgun thing but it crashes the level when you try to "give" it, same with the chaingun. There is also a "chainsaw" which uses the Q3A gauntlet as graphics.

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I am aware of the Q3 weapon graphics they left in, but they're entirely irrelevant to anything. The discussion was about a Doom 3 rocket launcher, and there is no Doom 3 rocket launcher in the alpha.

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Fredrik said:

I am aware of the Q3 weapon graphics they left in, but they're entirely irrelevant to anything. The discussion was about a Doom 3 rocket launcher, and there is no Doom 3 rocket launcher in the alpha.


You said, and I quote :

There's no RL in the alpha.


Which I said there was. You never said "there is no Doom 3 RL in the alpha" you said "There's no RL in the alpha." which is false. There is indeed one in Doom 3, just not the one that will be in the final product.

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BigBadGangsta said:
Which I said there was. You never said "there is no Doom 3 RL in the alpha" you said "There's no RL in the alpha." which is false. There is indeed one in Doom 3, just not the one that will be in the final product.

wheeeeeeeee! A mod trolling! Über-interesting!

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Ok, The BFG crashes the alpha? Didn't on mine, although I would hardly call them weapons. The word placeholder springs to mind here.
Although, I didn't know about the grenades. The other remaining weapons/monsters that aren't in yet crash the alpha to the console if you try and spawn them.

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999cop said:

Wald: I am confused of what the word "balance" means in your book. For instance, speaking of map01, all parts of the map are fairly balanced in every respect for me.

Two BFGs on one end of the map right next to each other. One respawn point behind a wall (cover) with three powerful weapons next to it, another one in the middle of a hallway with no cover or weapons -- that's usually instant death if an average player fights against a high skilled one -- another one about the same in the plasma room. Not much balance.

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A deathmatch game to most people is fun if they are able to frag something - that usually depends on the weapon the person gets. It sucks if someone get an unbalanced rocket launcher before you and you have to stay in hiding until you get another chance to get an even weapon - much better to at least have a chance against a rl toting player even if you don't have a rocket launcher yourself. The few times I played Q3A, I had more fun with it than most other dm games, because I had a chance to kill the guy with rl, whether I had a rl myself or something more 'pathetic'.

BBG: Does it fucking matter whether there is a non-functioning rl in the Alpha or whether there is no rl at all? The relevant thing is whether there is a working rl in the Alpha which there isn't, because the placeholder art for it does not work according to fredrik.
Now stop trolling around - just because you're technically my superior doesn't mean that you can fuck around. In turn, I expect you to come and stop ME from fucking around when I do.

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