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Retro Dino

What demon annoys you the most?

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Every single one of them is annoying. Fuck all of them. The ones that particularly annoy me these days are: 

 

Shotgunner: Hate the variable damage output, especially when you don't have armor, miss a shot and they retalite when your shotgun's still reloading. 

 

Spectres and pinkies: Dumb creatures. Their roaming sound is just ear rape. Just shut the fuck up!

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2 hours ago, The_SloVinator said:

I started to despise Spectres more & more. Maybe it's because of the Crispy Doom source port

 

He, what does one thing have to do with the other?

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May have something to do with spectres being a lot harder to see in software mode. Recently, I ditched OpenGL and noticed the difference myself. 

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Barons. Incredibly boring to fight in nearly every scenario.

 

Every wad that replaces them with a better monster to fight is doing everyone a favor.

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10 hours ago, fabian said:

 

He, what does one thing have to do with the other?

:P

Well, it's not just Crispy Doom, it's also doom2.exe & chocolate.

Basically the dark areas make them almost fully invisible & since they use the same sound (the one where they are hunting you) as most demons, it's tough to tell where are they coming from.

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Barons are just a slog. putting 2 or 3 hell knights in place of a baron makes it as or more difficult than one baron and way more engaging, and feels a lot more rewarding. It's genuinely the only demon i cannot stand, as even the most annoying of other enemies serve a function that isn't just meat shield.

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4 hours ago, paturn said:

Punching barons is hella fun though

Still getting the hang of that, but would still rather punch two hell knights

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On the low end, it has to be the lost souls. They're not really all that bad because you can shoot them before they get to you, but they get in your face quite a lot. On the high end, probably pinkies and whatever the invisible ones are called. They get in your face too, but they start chomping on you if you don't deal with them first. Edit: The pinkies are also annoying if you're not careful and back you into a corner (like in E1M8 or 9's pentagram room thing)

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Pain elementals....

Because they are not fun to fight :
-They spwan ennemies that block you and force you to move around.... nice eh ? well heck no !
They spawn in your face and stops you, they are always blocking the z axis, and in a shit load of maps, they are used combined with large monsters and just fuck around by blocking everybody : focusing them is not that good since the souls are still around.
Atually I might have a problem with lost souls the most rather than pain elementals.... 2 shells to kill them, and its not always a one hit kill depending on the distance... rocket launcger is suicide... plasma gun is fine but it takes forever to kill 7 of them, adn I'd rather be someplace else doing some fun stuff instead... reallly, individual lost souls can be fun to force the player to move around or to infight, using them as xeapons but pian elementals spams them and it just feels like I have to kill all of them before the fight begins proper. Hate 'em. Hate 'em so much.
Arch-vile are fine, even with the standrad shotgun its a break when you have to confornt one on one on one.... when in umbers coupled with other deamons, you always have cell wepaons or RL so they are not that much of a challenge.

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Well, there are "Archie invasion" maps by LA, which eventually moved from 500 to 1000 revs when it was determined that 500 were no longer a challenge. I always wondered how a "Revenant invasion" or "PE invasion" map would play out, obviously after restricting the BFG and maybe even the RL (just for the Revs, feel free to use it against the PEs).

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3 minutes ago, Marisa Kirisame said:

Pain elementals should not be allowed to exist.

 

What about a "Mother of Pain" monster that shoots Pain elementals?

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The real unspeakable persecution.

Please, mappers, dont make an icon of sin that spit only PE
I beg of you.

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Arch-viles. Not only are they basically hitscanners, but they're hitscanners that are durable as fuck, can't be reliably stunlocked to cancel out their attacks, and can use revived enemies as meatshields that they're also able to target through to use their flame attack on the player. I think they're honestly perhaps the most unfun enemies to fight in any id game out there.

 

People love to deride foes like Quake's Spawns or DOOM Eternal's Marauders, but those guys demand more nuanced and skill-based approaches that don't make the combat's pace come to a screeching halt once you're able to deal with them effectively. With classic DOOM's Arch-vile, all you can really do is either stop to sneak in and out of cover to whittle down its health, or spam whatever you may have at it (ideally the BFG) in hope that they don't hurt or kill you. They're such goddamn slogs.

 

Hell, I don't even think that Pain Elementals are nearly as bad, despite people's most commonly held opinion going by this thread. Pain Elementals don't have stupid hitscan attacks and can be stunlocked easily with something like the Chaingun.

Edited by chemo

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21 minutes ago, chemo said:

I think they're honestly perhaps the most unfun enemies to fight in any id game out there.

 

And yet, there are maps (LA Survival) that center their gameplay precisely on flooding the whole map with them. This works far better than you'd expect, and in fact people got so good at it that the initial (?) 500 Archies was soon doubled to 1000 per map, as apparently people learned to handle them.

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On 1/15/2021 at 6:03 PM, <<Rewind said:

Sometimes I'm half inclined to just type mdk and get it over with, for example mind numbingly fighting a Cyberdemon. That wouldn't be an option if I disabled the console in gzdoom, which brings the question: can I disable the console in GZDoom somehow?

You type it every time? I just binded MDK to ' and I feel good

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Humans making same, repetitive topics about "hated" or "annoying" Doom monsters are most annoying demons for me.

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2 hours ago, Loud Silence said:

Humans making same, repetitive topics about "hated" or "annoying" Doom monsters are most annoying demons for me.

Damn who pissed in your cheerios 

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Pain Elementals take the crown, they have a fitting a name. Second most annoying would be Archviles if I don't have map geometry to maneuver around and a few rockets to spare, or I don't have enough ammo for a head-on BFG blast right in their face.

 

Well, except Barney. He's a dreamy lad.

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I'm cool with Barons, they have their own interesting niche. But hell knights having half the health just gives mappers an excuse to put them everywhere.

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Revenants are probably the ones I have the most trouble with, I'm not good at dodging the homing rockets yet lol. I actually like Pain Elementals when they're used sparingly, I feel like they keep you from leaning on rockets too much.

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I feel like one thing Doom II really lacks is another monster or two with a similar hit point count to the revenant, meaning that in practice they end up being the preferred foot soldier in a lot of maps.  I do appreciate their versatility of course, both in mobs, alone and as turret enemies, but because there's nothing else nearly as flexible (even Hell Knights are too meat shield-ey and are ineffective at longer range) I just end up seeing way too many of them.  This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that their missiles are actually quite potent, meaning that it takes only a couple minor fuck-ups to die on a lot of maps.

 

I do try and avoid making all my maps feel just like "revenants and friends" and allow a variety of monsters to predominate, but there's a lot of situations where there's just no alternative to more boney bois.  Maybe something like a Hell Knight with lower HP, a faster walking speed and maybe faster projectiles would've been useful, I'm not sure.

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Lost souls annoy me the most. Especially when a ton of them are charging at you. It's worse when you got the pain elementals choking them out!

 

Archviles I wouldn't call annoying, even though they piss me off, 'cause I'm too busy being scared of their fire to even get annoyed by them lol

 

 

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8 hours ago, StupidBunny said:

Stuff about revs

 

Counterintuitively, the Cacodemon is the monster that most closely fits the role of a "foot soldier" after the Rev, even though it has no legs to speak of :-)

 

Think about it: quite close HP (Rev: 300, Caco: 400, and both require two SSG shots to be dispatched anyway), both are medium-to-high damage dealers (even though the Rev's 80 HP rocket is really an anomaly of Doom gameplay, IMO...), both have melee attacks, and the lack of a homing missile attack can be offset by higher attack rate (the Caco's is one of the fastest in the game, at least for a non-bullet-spamming monster), and of course the ability to fly and pester you even where Revs cannot reach. OK, it's somewhat chubby and doesn't fit everywhere... but would you really like a slimmer, more agile version, all other things being equal? :-D

 

But yeah, the Rev can be surprisingly -and annoyingly- cruel. Its 80 HP damage attack means that it can one-shot kill you when you least expect it, and its homing capability makes it surprisingly effective even against tougher monsters, because it always hits. As a result, a 1-on-1 between a Rev and a Hell Knight is quite evenly matched (with odds favouring the Rev if fighting is mostly at a distance), while even a Baron of Hell can lose WAY more than the Rev's own HP before putting it down, while against two Revs it's not even a contest.

 

Its role in Doom games is yeah, that of a foot soldier, but what kind of foot solder: one belonging to a tough, ruthless, Latino or Pakistani street gang. Deceivingly powerful and resilient, tough, hard-boiled, ruthless, playin' dirty, and comes in great numbers as well.

Edited by Maes

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On 1/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, paturn said:

Spectres and pinkies: Dumb creatures. Their roaming sound is just ear rape. Just shut the fuck up!

 

Ever played one of the old vanilla Doom versions with the weird "sound mixing bug"? That blended any continuous, insistent sounds into a weird, syncopated cackling noise unlike that of any monster. Even 3-4 pinkies in a room were enough to trigger it.

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15 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

Ever played one of the old vanilla Doom versions with the weird "sound mixing bug"? That blended any continuous, insistent sounds into a weird, syncopated cackling noise unlike that of any monster. Even 3-4 pinkies in a room were enough to trigger it.

Never heard of this, I'll have to check this out. 

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