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hurricane hoatzine

What do you think of midnight

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When i discovered his videos long ago it was a really cool Channel but now its just clickbait thumbnails and uninteresting videos 

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5 hours ago, whatup876 said:

At least Doomkid was not coming from a "elitist gatekeeper" behaviour and even Midnight responded to the video in a positive manner.

Honestly, he probably knew what he was doing, Doom trivia is so well documented and easy to find, of course he knew that a lot of the information on his video was wrong, but "Doom has real life gore" and "Columbine shooter recreated his school on Doom" and et cetera gives a lot more views than the actual truth. Midnight must have like 4 or 5 apologies/"I will try to do better" videos on his channel, I didn't watched any of these because everyone knows how these videos work (other than that, he stretches all of his videos to more than 8 minutes for ads). Probably he didn't expected Doomkid to debunk his video, in fact, he probably didn't even knew about any Doom focused channels other than these that talk almost exclusively about the reboot games, then he thought that nobody would watch his video and say "hey, this is wrong".

  Anyways, the best way to deal with these channels full of clickbait is to just ignore it, some time ago he was going into obscurity, he could barely reach 10k views in a video, Doomkid only made that video because it had a lot of disinformation and a lot of people saw it and thought it was all true.

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What also felt weird about him bringing up Columbine is a part where he was like "he made wads that you probably played" when Doom modding and wads in itself is so big, that a lot of things are played but not anything from Harris.

Like, even if you don't keep track of every wad or anything about Doom you ever played, you still know you never touched a still thing done by Harris.

From all the most noticeable wads within both the fanbase and outside of it, to obscure stuff you had to look for or stumble upon.

 

Like yeah, almost everyone heard stories about him making maps but actually played them? can't think of anyone, not even "recreational wads".

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Speaking of Doomtubers, i wonder what people think of DOOMGUY BOT because they made videos about gameplay analysis and trivia (like concept art or cut content) that i thought was interesting, but then there's the typical meme content.

The video of theirs that sticked out to me the most was "ranking every Doom joke" and despite the title, it only fixated on recent memes with the exception being "rip and tear".

So no idspispopd, Benellus god of shotguns or Impse or even FIREBLU and subtle chaingunner placement.

It was the kind of video that came off as a prespective that seems to say "us, Doom fans" but it comes off as from a newer generation of fans and not old guard.

It shows how modern Doom fans are more vocal about their "Doom fanboyness" despite not having the same information or traditions as the older fans.

 

But for all the newcomers or Redditors that act as the "natural" part of a fanbase, you also wonder about how the old blood responds to this because Doomkid making a video about Midnight seems to be an only instance.

Maybe because other people have better things to do (like mods or port developing, of course) or don't want to come off as gatekeepers.

But at a certain point i wonder if a potential line will be crossed and there will be a certain effect.

I've already seen people complain "Doom fans have the same shitty jokes and repeat them all over again" and it comes from someone familiar with r/Doom as "the Doom fanbase", so no mention of older memes or concepts like WADs.

And with this in mind, it also makes me look back at events like Brutal Doom's popularity.

Like all this stuff about it having a lot more coverage than most mods but nowadays, we reached a status where people declare themselves as "the Doom community" but barely care about modding.

 

I say this as someone that's neither old blood or new blood: somewhere in the middle but with some research and insights that just need correction and more from better sources or perspectives.

In general, it reminds me of nerd/geek culture and the jump between "awkward nerd that knows some skills and talents from the computer" to "Funko Pop collector that respects brands".

Or how people even look at fanbases in general, as if they had certain "formats" or "rules" that have to be shared, hence why there's a version of a meme based off any popular game or show. (one example being Reddit fanbases with the typical "wholesome memer/brand loyalist" aspect but Tumblr specifically also has "fandom culture" and some weird stuff that's kinda carried over Twitter).

So Doom's fanbase has some culture that's not that parallel to how other people perceive fanbases, both those inside them and those outside them.

A bit closer to stuff like emulation, rom hacks, wikis, documentation and all, instead of people making Uncanny Mr Incredible memes or "coffee shop AUs".

 

Like, some guy will go "for the sancticy of Doom, i do not want Doomguy to be in Fortnite" but he never talks about when Romero himself confirmed he couldn't release more unused Doom content because of ZeniMax.

Probably overthinking and going off-topic.

Even then, it helps when a fanbase is big enough to have different fields, like fanart or people masking custom stuff like Doom action figures.

 

June edit: because this just came to mind, i also wondered something about how people claim Doom is "the most epic/most heavy metal/christian/etc series ever" and how much of that comes from the newer fans, while older fans made Doom "more epic than it actually is" through content like fan redesigns and mods.

Like, you could argue than a really good megawad for Doom 2 is more fun to play than the base vanilla levels but the wad itself is never done to "improvise over Doom 2".

Like when people think of TAG2 specifically and "what it should have been", i wonder if that also correlates with the "epicness" of Doom in general and when it comes to potential crossovers like "who would win in a fight?".

Because even when you can think of what the Dark Lord could have been, you at least have TAG2 in general to thank for your creativity, to come up with those ideas in the first place.

Because Doom in itself lived that long as a "sandbox" which can be examplified even besides modding and wads.

Even with fanarts, you'll find someone's detailed portrait of Doomguy made in a time when the series had barely any official art, let alone HD versions of his face.

 

I guess it depends on how many people look up those loud MCU/Disney SW fans and think "that's how REAL fans of something behave" without even knowing why RedLetterMedia or some other people mock that behaviour in the first place.

Edited by whatup876 : adding more

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Midnight as a person? I have no clue. But Midnight as a youtuber? Just another trash clickbait 'content creator' who willfully spreads misinformation for views and the algorithm, and doesn't truly acknowledge his mistakes. Yeah, sure, he did post a comment on Doomkid's rebuttal video, but he never followed up on it with a video of his own, nor did he even have the proper courtesy to link Doomkid's video in his own. I wish he'd just fall into obscurity, but YouTube says 'nope lol'.

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Midnight being the most popular nuDoom-orientated DoomTuber only tells me that the nuDoom side of the community are in desperate need of better talent when it comes to producing YouTube videos. He's shown up in my Recommended section a few times and each vid I've watched has felt really feckless and lackluster. I feel like most of the time he has very little to say and what he DOES say tends to be either milquetoast observations or a very middling understanding of what he's even talking about. He's clearly on that YouTube grind of pumping videos out on a regular basis to keep his channel afloat, but from what I can tell, he's very desperate for video ideas and leans really hard on clickbait topics/titles/thumbnails and even lame rage-bait for what wind up being pretty toothless videos of little substance. I have a feeling a lot of his output isn't going to age too well in the long-term.

 

While he seems to have a tendency to get called out for these kind of things on a regular basis by other DoomTubers in his side of the community, he's at least self-aware enough. Given how well he took Doomkid's criticisms of his frankly embarrassing Doom Iceberg video like a champ, I can at least respect Midnight on that level. He's a bigger man than that dork, Gmanlives.

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On 1/24/2021 at 8:25 AM, VoanHead said:

He's basically what MRBOSSFTW is to GTA content.

Nah come on, MRBOSSFTW has 0 good content

 

He might have done clickbaits (I don't watch him very often to know) and that's uncool if he did, but he has made a lot of good contents, mod reviews etc

 

On 5/17/2022 at 7:16 AM, Skrogezb said:

Well he's misogynistic when it comes to a doom movie doom annihilation about a female lead actor.

The issue with Doom Annihilation is not the female lead actress

It's about the said actress mocking Doom fans on her twitter

And the movie being horribly bad in general

 

Please stop relating movie/game criticism to the gender/sexuality of the main character.

That is never the focus for people who are criticizing the movie/game

 

Note:

 

I don't watch Midnight frequently and I don't really follow youtubers on Classic doom except decino/doomkid

As of the late replies there seems to be a lot of claims on him clickbaiting a lot now

And maybe he does, I don't watch him enough to really know

Just recalled a few good mod reviews he had

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I feel like i said this before but newer fans/content creators are either more vocal or just easily exposable than older ones.

So if someone says "Doom fans have the same fucking jokes", they mean the new ones, nothing to do with "Doom boomers".

The problem might not even be the content itself: it's rather how it OVERSHADOWS the more interesting and unique, if not, more important aspects of the fanbase.

Even if unintentional, its how information is controlled around the internet.

A reason why Brutal Doom was disliked for its popularity alone was because you could tell it was causing some misconceptions over both the main series (even Romero had to clarify a certain quote he said about the mod) and the modding scene in itself.

So Doomkid making a video about Midnight is a start, but i'd like to see more examples similar to it.

 

If people think the stereotypical "Funko Pop nerd" of today isn't a "real nerd into Marvel or Star Wars", i think Doom has a much more staggering cultural/generational contrast within that should be more noticed.

But be it the "Funko Pop" people, Reddit memes or even "Tumblr fandom" concepts, i feel like they just grew up with a version of "fan culture" that contrasts how older fans looked at nerd stuff.

But also, how these new fans just didn't catch up with most of the Doom fanbase lore or something.

 

Though one could also see that these aspects aren't just exclusive to newcomers or Youtubers, because even certain boomers or people that are usually more insightful may end up doing a "You can't shoot a hole into the surface of Mars" joke or something that someone would deem "too much like r/Doom".

Like, the kind of people that even make fun of "consoomers" and "Redditors" ended up carrying similar behaviors.

Makes me think that people make fun of modern nerd culture because the same people don't like MCU movies or Disney Star Wars, while Doom is in a better state than those series. (specially when even Crowbcat and MatthewMatosis had positive things to say/make about Doom)

It makes modern Doom an exception to other stuff, even if you think certain trends are still there.

But it's also weird to see this "brand loyalty" behavior in a series whose fanbase was always much more special, it does not need someone make memes about how epic the protagonist is, when you look at the more interesting activities

 

Something could also be said about "recurring opinions" whose prevelancy sort of ruins their legitimacy, like "Doom is for SP and Quake is MP" always felt like something that one guy said and other people started to say it a lot, disregarding stuff like Doom's history with multiplayer and Quake mappacks.

Reminds me of how in anime/otaku spaces, people still fall for rumors related to Evangelion ("Anno hates otakus") and Ghost Stories ("it flopped in Japan") that were technically a product of older generations. (and also fake Sailor Moon quotes)

 

Also, has any big Doom Youtuber talked about the Doom RPG fan port?

 

Also, some people complained about Isabelle crossovers but the ones about the Buzz Lightyear felt like a mixture of "advertising a Disney movie that most people are already forgetting" and "oh yeah, i can see why Doom Eternal went through a cartoony direction lol".

 

 

EDIT: with MRBOSSFTW mentioned, i just remember some names that Midnight and some others could be compared to:

Grandayy, who was notorious for making really unfunny, generic memes like Steve from Minecraft singing Baka Mitai. like the modern version of random humor that feels generated.

Luulubuu was someone notorious for posting generic/safe memes and opinions, but with an "wholesome gamer girl" schtick until people found out it was some guy.

There was also a guy with some variation of Automata on his username and a Nitocris from Fate avatar that also had generic gamer speak and turns out he was faking being a game reviewer just to have free access to recent game releases.

 

I wonder if people recall that age when everyone started to shit on Rage Comic memes and wish death upon sites like 9gag. because with people complaining about Doom memes, it's kinda like a mirror of that, but even these "anti-meme" movement cause some reactionary stuff, where they're just as annoying or new memes are formed.

 

I also think that when people hear "generic fake gamer" they think of Dorkly parodies from 2011 about Skyrim and Mass Effect, so because of how the gaming landscape has changed, they don't believe that something like Bayonetta or DanganRonpa is popular enough to be in a similar spot.

Doom's image probably changed too considering stuff like Brutal Doom fans and the contrast between the more dedicated fans and outsiders.

With the new games, the spectrum feels more stretched.

Edited by whatup876 : adding more

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I don't really watch him, but he just seems to create a mixture of generic Doom Eternal clickbait and a look at "creepy" and "offensive" maps like Grezzo or a 3D monster pack. Also, I don't know if this is a nit-pick but he doesn't even link the maps that he's talking about in the description of his videos, making people who may be interested in playing those maps less able to do so. I do think he responded to Doomkid's criticisms of his Doom Iceberg video pretty well, unlike what Gmanlives did with the criticism to his Doom Unity port review.

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6 minutes ago, enigma101 said:

he doesn't even link the maps that he's talking about in the description of his videos

Haven't watched all his vids but I'm pretty sure maps like Moonman and Grezzo are insta-bans

 

6 minutes ago, enigma101 said:

unlike what Gmanlives did with the criticism to his Doom Unity port review.

More than a deletion of the vid?

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Just now, The Doommer said:

More than a deletion of the vid?

Ah, I might have worded that wrong. What I meant was that how Midnight responded by taking the criticism constructively and appreciating it was a lot better than Gmanlives just deleting his review.

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33 minutes ago, enigma101 said:

a look at "creepy" and "offensive" maps like Grezzo

I felt like he meant offensive to people who tend to take mods too seriously.

Hell, I don't really believe Moonman was made to promote KKK and Nazis, just for shock value etc

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I'm seeing more people dislike Midnight, though i wonder if there's sincerity behind it and it's not just because "someone said he's bad".

Like there are obvious reasons to dislike his stuff but i also wonder the angle it's coming from.

Because to me, Midnight sort of represents stuff applied to modern Youtubers and even modern Doom fans, so one could see similar/related aspects with other "Doom tubers". (plus, whether or not one would look at the history of the community in general and how older fans or aspects of Doom fandom compare to new stuff)

Like maybe some boomers going "he doesn't make cool fucking wads, why should i care?" isn't the "only true" way to view Midnight, but this kind of reminds me when your typical meme chasing Twitter artist draws something basic and someone complains, but said complainer is still into current memes.

 

Or like how Reddit is a site people made fun of for specific things and then too many people mock Reddit, so that concept feels changed.

Whereas 9Gag mockery isn't as common nowadays but the fact that it mostly came from cynical imageboard people or even some popular Newgrounds personalities showed a clear culture shock or different worlds in regards to internet subcultures.

 

It's why i think Doomkid's video about Midnight is interesting because it shows a clash of worlds within Doom fan culture.

And it could even reflect trends and changes in regards to the internet or even nerd culture.

 

I feel like some generations get self aware about how they don't have certain knowledge, so they tend to adopt some opinions or ideas from other groups but without much knowledge or experience to solidify those ideas.

And Doom's fanbase always had some great history that i think people could look into.

 

I've talked about DOOMGUY BOT's "Ranking Every Doom Meme" video where they primarly focused on only MODERN Doom memes except one and i saw someone did a video ranking "Doomtubers" and it consisted of recent people except for Zero Master.

It's stuff like this that reminds me of how a side effect of Brutal Doom's popularity was its effect on history, like how other mods still existed or some aspects of classic Doom and source ports getting fuzzy in people's minds.

 

Speaking of Reddit, i guess a particular Reddit trait (or Reddit moment) is when they always make themselves as "the community" even for a group or niche that existed before or elsewhere.

Maybe one could mention that at least Reddit is still a bit better structured as a site than Twitter for communities. (and i still use the "old" design)

 

By the way, i just remembered when some Doom fans on Twitter tried to do a mapping project but it didn't went anywhere.

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On 11/4/2022 at 10:42 PM, whatup876 said:

I'm seeing more people dislike Midnight, though i wonder if there's sincerity behind it and it's not just because "someone said he's bad".

I have seen a fair few of Midnight's videos, they are delivered with the grace of an unenthusiastic handjob.

 

They're either things I already know, things that are outright wrong or boring pseudo-commentary/let's plays. It feels like every video was an assessment he had to hand in the next day, poorly thought out and delivered in such a deadpan, disinterested job interview format that they make perfect replacements for sleep hypnosis videos.

 

It's the McDonalds of Doom content and you know what? I'm glad he's doing it. As harsh as my words are I have respect for him, it must not be easy.

 

I dislike his videos, not the man behind them, he's trying as hard as he can and I might revile what he makes but as long as he wants to do it then I've got respect for it and him.

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On 11/7/2022 at 10:26 AM, mrthejoshmon said:

they are delivered with the grace of an unenthusiastic handjob.

lmao, bro

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On 11/7/2022 at 5:26 AM, mrthejoshmon said:

I have seen a fair few of Midnight's videos, they are delivered with the grace of an unenthusiastic handjob.

 

 

Yeah, you can tell he doesn't really like doing the "YouTuber" thing which is why he always seems to be making fun of it.

 

On the subject, he mentioned that one horror wad recently, and it's no more clickbait-y than anything else he's done although again, it seemed like we were supposed to take the wad's reputation as gospel or something

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I remember watching a few of his videos during Doom Eternal release. Because there was actual interesting news about the game and DLC speculation his videos had some substance. His delivery was always cringe to me but there was content worth viewing.

 

Despite the news for Eternal began to dry up, his videos didn't. Creating full 10 minute videos to share one minor rumour, gradually making them more clickbaity as time went on.

 

So now we're left just the cringe, the longer videos and clickbait. Although I haven't watched his content in a while now so I'm just assuming he got worse based on the comments on this thread.

 

Also, I notice that many people like to bring up DoomKid in this thread, yet he remains silent probably because it could create drama. Wise.

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17 minutes ago, Chezza said:

Also, I notice that many people like to bring up DoomKid in this thread, yet he remains silent probably because it could create drama. Wise.

I think it's more that he thinks he said his piece in his video response and has no need to comment further, although that's also true.

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I don't blame Doomkid and i can see why he remains silent.

You just want to make stuff and not be seen as a hero and compared to someone else in online discussion.

 

I think Scott The Woz actually hates when people go "unlike this Youtuber, Scott the Woz is wholesome and doesn't do anything problematic".

Because even when an e-celeb/content creator/whatever-you-call-them don't have any skeletons in their closets, there's something weird about treating them too highly and put above someone else, like they're fictional characters and not real people.

Even Newgrounders that made fun of Let's Players and "lazy memes" end up with their parasocial fans acting awkwardly.

 

When i think of Doom's community, i always thought there's a lot about it that's special and could be highlighted but it's also important to avoid bias and overpraising what are essentially just human beings that did stuff.

Hence i tend to look into positions like "Doom's fanbase is too special and that's why there's some drama and hoaxes are too common/it's too easy to lie about Doom" etc.

 

I sometimes wonder if deep down, Midnight had ideas for content he actually wanted to make but just didn't.

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his early content around the eternal hype and tag 1 hype is nostalgic. but i just stopped after the clickbait nonsense

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''World's most scizophrenia inducing disturbing doom torture mod'' and then it is like Hdoom XD I like some of his videos tho to be fair, but too much clickbait sometimes

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I dont know him, so i am not going to talk about his character, but i really cant stand his videos. They are low quality filler garbage.
 

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I don't mind him to be fair, but I really can't help but roll my eyes when he says things along the lines of "this is forbidden content, it'll probably be demonetized so please sub to me on patreon" or whatever. The begging makes me feel kind of uneasy, that's not the reason I visit youtube.

 

Titles and thumbnails are click-baity as hell, but it's no different from a lot of other videos on the platform so eh. If it's a video I don't like, I'll just move onto something else.

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Ok, so I have been trying to be reasonable with this matter, he's a Youtuber that relies on low effort and low quality 10 minute videos, now that Id Software is not giving any news about the next game he started covering classic Doom mods, mostly shock value and edgy content, and his sources are Reddit posts.

However, he has been corrected many times and acknowledged it the Youtube comments of the people that corrected him, not on his own channel however, still, he keeps spreading misinformation to his teenager audience, that take it as truth, here's a recent video: 

The lie here is that the Columbine shooter created a map based on his school, that is absolutely not true and he knows about it. That kind of lie can give the wrong impression about Doom and the community, and even endorse acts like this, even if he puts a note in the start of the video saying that's not his objective.
Don't click on his video, don't give him views, just ignore it.

Or do a community note if he posted something related to it on Twitter/X.

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22 hours ago, Metal_Slayer said:

he has been corrected many times and acknowledged it the Youtube comments of the people that corrected him, not on his own channel however, still, he keeps spreading misinformation to his teenager audience, that take it as truth

 

Yeah, despite how many times he's openly acknowledged when he's gotten shit wrong in response to videos criticising/roasting his stuff, he hasn't seemed to learn anything from those experiences. Midnight's very much the analytics-driven kind of YouTuber who evidently doesn't really care all that much about the quality of what he puts out, but rather focused on pulling every metadata trick in the book to milk YouTube's algorithm for all its worth in the laziest ways possible. I don't find him to be the kind of creator worth taking seriously by any metric in regards to Doom overall.

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3 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

the analytics-driven kind of YouTuber who evidently doesn't really care all that much about the quality of what he puts out, but rather focused on pulling every metadata trick in the book to milk YouTube's algorithm for all its worth in the laziest ways possible.

 

Isn't that like, all of them? That's all I ever see from today's average youtuber. Hell, that's all I see from every website that appears in search engines.

 

I recently discovered a channel called BriTANick which reminded me, with a sliver of nostalgia (though that word is overused as hell), just what internet videos and original Youtube used to be about. Videos that were funny skits, each just a few minutes long (as opposed to today's half hour or hour-long videos that drag on forever wasting your time filibustering about nothing). And I felt like I watched something that was actually good. Reminds me of Smosh or College Humor around 2009-2012. Clearly these guys had a background in film/theater because they were quite talented. Indeed, somebody at Hollywood must have felt likewise, since they've apparently written on SNL and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. They even got Nathan Fillion of Firefly & Castle to cameo in one of their skits.

 

I found it remarkable that such a channel should be found at all, because what was once expected and commonplace is now a rare gem in the ocean of banality.

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