First Map - In 25 Years

[raviner]

Hello. New.

 

I briefly fooled around with some Doom editing back in the 90s. Haven't done any since. Haven't really done much gaming since. Then I started watching some Doom play-throughs on Youtube a month or so ago and was suddenly struck with a nostalgic urge to get back in the game.

 

This first new map is urban style, based loosely on my own immediate neighbourhood. Pretty basic. Strictly Doom II. No mods, nothing fancy. However, I think it would probably qualify as what you call a "megamap" as it took me about an hour to complete in "Don't Hurt Me" mode (then again, I'm not very good at Doom).

 

Built with Slade 3 on Vanilla/Doom II IWAD

Tested on GZDoom v4.5.0

Occasional crouching + jumping

 

Screenshots were taken during the design process, before population, so no real spoilers:

 
And, of course, the WAD:

https://ufile.io/bhv3h6sp

 

v2.0 (+mp3 file):

https://www.doomworld.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=112140

 

Final version:

https://doomshack.org/uploads/RavinerMap01-WoodbineWarzone.wad

Does it suck? Let me know.
It should - first map in 25 years, after all!

Edited March 7, 2021 by raviner : Version Update

[Biodegradable]

This map's pretty cool with some nice texture work and some neat DoomCute stuff like the couches and chairs, diner-style booths and pool tables. Combat's a little humdrum and not very challenging, but I was still having fun exploring all the nooks and crannies. Unfortunately, I got hopelessly stuck when it came to progression. I'm not sure if maybe some things didn't trigger correctly, bugged out or things just aren't very clear but I wasn't able to progress much further beyond unlocking all the blue door areas and exploring every building I could open and every switch I could find. I had unveiled a great deal of the map, but the abundence of switches I pressed didn't seem to really change anything and the dozens of dead-ends I came to each time I thought I was progressing turned the map from interesting to just frustrating. I just couldn't make any more progress after that.

[raviner]

Thanks for dipping your toe in Biodegradable! Appreciate the review.

 

> "Combat's a little humdrum and not very challenging"

I suspected this might be the case, as it was designed by/for someone like me with limited playing skills.

Any hints for improvement? Just more monsters?

 

> "the abundence of switches I pressed didn't seem to really change anything ... turned the map from interesting to just frustrating"

That was somewhat by design, I must admit - a little too clever by half, perhaps?

[Biodegradable]

2 hours ago, raviner said:

> "Combat's a little humdrum and not very challenging"

I suspected this might be the case, as it was designed by/for someone like me with limited playing skills.

Any hints for improvement? Just more monsters?

 

Yeah, I think the combat needs to be a bit more diverse with some more interesting encounter scenarios and Demon team-ups. Try experimenting with different groups and play with some traps and stuff like that. Jazz it up a few notches heh.

 

2 hours ago, raviner said:

> "the abundence of switches I pressed didn't seem to really change anything ... turned the map from interesting to just frustrating"

That was somewhat by design, I must admit - a little too clever by half, perhaps?

 

Maybe. I just couldn't for the life of me track the progression beyond the blue keyed doors and any other available open place I could find throughout the map. Just no sign of the red and yellow keys anywhere and it felt like I traversed every available nook and cranny several times over and pressed all sorts of mysterious buttons. I was just utterly lost! I recorded my footage so I can provide that for you if you'd like. I didn't post it like I usually do since I didn't like the idea of posting a playthrough that ended with me giving up. :^P I can send it to you in a PM tomorrow if you're interested though.

[Doom OG]

Not bad at all especially for being away so long, welcome back fellow 'vintage' space marine. :)

 

I liked the monster choices and the neighborhood theme - you live in a rough place huh?

 

Suggestions:

 

Work on navigation/flow - I got the "where do I go now" feeling about midway through.

Use some lighting changes for different areas.

Less blocky architecture would be good, but it wasn't expected by me on this "refresher" map.

That room with all the switches could be made more intuitive.

[raviner]

^ Thanks Doom OG. I salute your service!

 

> "you live in a rough place huh?"

Ha. It's Hell on these streets...

 

As for your "where do I go now feeling" and Biodegradable's "I was just utterly lost!" - still not sure if I should take this as a compliment or not.

 

Biodegradable: please do send me the recording, just to see if something went wrong with the WAD I uploaded or not. I re-ran my version and everything checks out. I will say this though if you, or anyone else, wants to take one more crack at a playthrough --- *spoiler* --- there is at least one "trap switch" that you're not supposed to trigger if you want to get the next two keys. This sounds like where you might be getting stuck.

 

All in all though, as per both of your suggestions, I should probably start actually playing some Doom again, and get a better feel for gameplay/design, before starting on my next map. Thanks again!

Edited January 20, 2021 by raviner

[Degree23]

13 hours ago, raviner said:

> "Combat's a little humdrum and not very challenging"

 

> "the abundence of switches I pressed didn't seem to really change anything ... turned the map from interesting to just frustrating"

 

There is a possible approach to address these together, which is to use monsters to direct a player. Unfortunately I've never been able to find it again, but I once played a map that had me backtracking over areas multiple times, but each time was with a selection of new enemies, which indicated that I should be back in this area again. Despite the size of the map and twisting paths, I never got lost in the map. These prompts can help to indicate to a player that there's something worth investigating if there are new enemies in a previous area. So something like having a couple of the switches spawn enemies in the area the player needs to go next is an option.

 

How much you want to guide the player is up to you though, after all, you're making the map. And if you like switch hunts, go give Eternal Doom a go!

[Sectorslayer]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:33 AM, raviner said:

I briefly fooled around with some Doom editing back in the 90s. Haven't done any since. Haven't really done much gaming since. Then I started watching some Doom play-throughs on Youtube a month or so ago and was suddenly struck with a nostalgic urge to get back in the game.

I know the feeling. Welcome back! ;-)

[raviner]

Good to be back sectrslayr!

 

Degree23: I liked your idea about spawning monsters, but couldn't quite figure out how to do this right, so in this latest update (attached) I've ended up spawning the player back to the general area you need to be (aka, just a teleport). Hopefully this makes at least one probable sticking spot (judging from Bio's helpful playthrough video) a little less sticky.

 

As per the other suggestions, I've also added some more monsters, and a trap or two - but, in doing so, I may have basically just added more monsters killing each other with not much gained in the process. Hard to say. Also, regarding OG's suggestion of making the "room with all the switches" more intuitive - assuming you meant the room near the end, I may have made it...well, you be the judge!

 

With respect to aesthetics, not much has changed as I sort of fell down a custom music rabbithole instead and couldn't quite find my way back out through all the intricacies of MIDI composition. Therefore, attached with this latest update is an MP3 of how the music was supposed to sound. I suppose you could just play it on loop in the background if you're so inclined.

 

Not sure if its worth another run-through if you've already played the first version (did anyone actually finish it, by the way - or was it simply an exercise in futile frustration?) - but if you do play it again, let me know if this was any sort of improvement. 

 

 

Map1pt2.7z

Edited January 21, 2021 by raviner

[Clippy]

 

[raviner]

Great video Clippy, thanks! Glad to know it's actually completeable - at least with a little no clipping, though I can't blame you there.

 

Next time, definitely less switches that open stuff all they way on the other side of the map (and close other stuff right in your face). The second version (above) is hopefully a little more intuitive in that regard, but still a pain I'd imagine.

 

I was going to do a third version where I fix all the doors, alignment errors, and a few other things, but that'd probably be lipstick on a pig at this point. Think I'll just keep it as is - a testament to my doom re-entry naivety.

[Clippy]

9 hours ago, raviner said:

Great video Clippy, thanks! Glad to know it's actually completeable - at least with a little no clipping, though I can't blame you there.

 

Next time, definitely less switches that open stuff all they way on the other side of the map (and close other stuff right in your face). The second version (above) is hopefully a little more intuitive in that regard, but still a pain I'd imagine.

 

I was going to do a third version where I fix all the doors, alignment errors, and a few other things, but that'd probably be lipstick on a pig at this point. Think I'll just keep it as is - a testament to my doom re-entry naivety.

 

No problem buddy, truthfully the premise of nobody can figure this out motivated me to try it haha. I legitimately did not expect to meet the finish line and after playing for an hour in what appeared to be an unmarked exit, I found it. After being trapped in a city sized escape room I didn't feel like trying to explore some areas I never got open :P

 

Re no clipping: At the time I had a choice to go left or right. Had I elected to go left with the pinkies I would have been fine, but why does going right close the door to them? I had no idea if the door would open up again so rather then going on a wild goose chase, I elected to go left by no clipping as I could have done this anyway if not for that trick door shutting. Also that one time lift I felt like no clipping to get on it again when I fell off. 

 

Also you should always put updated map versions in the original post, most ppl only read that and I missed the updated version :P 

 

Check out Hell Revealed Map 15 - they have a lot of switches and random portals and it would be confusing as hell but they used decorations as landmarks in an interesting way that I thought was neat.

 

In your case switches could do anything, anywhere in the map and if the switch point and the thing it triggers somehow looked the same it would help big time. 

 

As for the yellow key, I sincerely have no idea how I obtained it. It felt like I was randomly going through unexpected and unmarked random teleports in a 3 story apartment until the key suddenly became available. 

 

Don't get discouraged a lot of new mappers have confusing progression, this one was just on a larger scope. I have also confused ppl when getting comfortable with a map I made to find nobody can figure it out - it's just the way it goes sometimes 

 

Good times I hope to see another map from you :)

[raviner]

Hey, if a guy named Clippy can't do a little no clipping from time to time, who can?

 

As I told Biodegradable, my initial worry with this map, being out of the loop for so long, was that the combat would be too hard (this is why there were so my health/powerups scattered around) and the puzzles would be too easy. Man, was I off! I thought I was being somewhat helpful with my clues/decorations. For instance, all the switches related to the same goal were of the same type - ie: skull switches for the blue key, gargoyle switches for the red key, satyr switches for the yellow key (this opened the secret wall to the heart pillar, btw, which you then triggered to lower the yellow key platform, to answer your question about that key. [This was somewhat clarified in v2.0 by transporting you directly to the yellow key room once the heart pillar is triggered.]). All the secrets are "clued-up" in some way as well - nothing random - but, watching you and Biodegradable play I can see how easy they are to miss, especially when you're already lost and just want to end the map.

 

> "Don't get discouraged"

Already working on a new map!

 

> "Also you should always put updated map versions in the original post, most ppl only read that and I missed the updated version"

Ah, yes - good call! Done. And here's another link for good measure:

https://wadhosting.com/Wad/A0341B117EEA0CBC439C0E9B10AF100E3360D3B1

(sorry about the stupid ufile link in the o.p. - I just picked the first free fileshare site I searched)

[Clippy]

You still never told me what would happen if I didn't clip lol

 

So I could have gone into the pinky area first right? But I pressed a button that closed that off .. not sure the purpose other than to mess with the player and send them on a quest to figure out how to get back in? lol

 

Just curious if there was another way in after I closed it and if it involved finding some switch elsewhere. 

 

Just trying to figure out what the grand scheme of locking me out was cause I just gotta know!!

 

 

[raviner]

> "not sure the purpose other than to mess with the player and send them on a quest to figure out how to get back in? lol"

 

That's pretty much it. Straight-up dick move switch! You'd have to travel back across the map to re-flip the gargoyle switch in the little stairwell between the pool hall and the abandoned room to reopen the door. In version 2 I added another switch next to the dick switch that produces a teleport directly back to that area. A little less dickish, but not much... Grand scheme: pointless dickery. ;-)

[Clippy]

3 hours ago, raviner said:

> "not sure the purpose other than to mess with the player and send them on a quest to figure out how to get back in? lol"

 

That's pretty much it. Straight-up dick move switch! You'd have to travel back across the map to re-flip the gargoyle switch in the little stairwell between the pool hall and the abandoned room to reopen the door. In version 2 I added another switch next to the dick switch that produces a teleport directly back to that area. A little less dickish, but not much... Grand scheme: pointless dickery. ;-)

That's what I thought LMAO

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/895982497

 

Playthrough starts at 1:57. There was a certain charm to this map that looks like it came straight out of the 90's.

[raviner]

Thanks for the playthrough Suitepee!

 

It seems you managed to be the least lost in this map so far (though my stupid secrets remain largely undiscoverable).

 

Very pleased that the people in the chat enjoyed my "Bard Cyberdemon", haha (that gimmick was actually lifted directly from my very first 90s map, based on my high school's auditorium). Glad everyone still noticed my doors and alignments were ridiculous, as well!

 

Also, kudos for discovering the "M4C" - if you find out what it stands for you'll discover another stupid secret!