How do mappers actually "come up" with the environments they create?

[maxmanium]

I know almost everything about the editing process (for vanilla), but when it comes time to make the actual gameplay, my mind is blank. I've never been super creative to begin with, but right now especially I just have no creative juices flowing whatsoever. How do experienced mappers consistently (as it seems at least) come up with these varied, dynamic, fun maps?

[xvertigox]

Please note: I wouldn't call myself a good mapper but I have made a few maps (12 published) so take this all in critically, this is just how I currently approach things.

 

It varies for me. Typically, I'll choose a few gameplay elements or set pieces I want to include (hordes of imps to rocket launcher, platforming with lost souls (bleh), demonic/kvlt as fuck church etc). Then I'll start drawing stuff, usually the start room or a set piece depending on the map. I'll usually have an idea for progression at this point (linear, non-linear, 3key exit etc).

 

After I decide on the shape of the start room (for example) I'll add on to that with the next area and so on. I usually bounce around when I get stuck for ideas. If I cant figure out how I'll progress with this part I'll go on and do the exit room and figure out how to connect them then. For new areas either the progression is logical or I'll draw shapes that I think are interesting and try that out. Probably at least once or twice per map I'll draw an area I think might be fun then scrap it entirely because it doesn't work.

 

I'm not experienced enough to have a grand vision in my head of how the map will look, I do it all on the fly. I'll just draw shit and see if it works. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

[Kore]

It's an iterative process. I place some sectors and add a few monsters without too much though. I get more ideas as I play the map, stuff like "It'd be fun if I got attacked from there". Then I go back and and keep adding and modifying stuff until I feel it's done. You don't need to start with a good and detailed layout right away. Actually, starting with weird looking stuff gets the creative juices flowing more easily. Do crazy stuff and see if it works or not.

[inkoalawetrust]

For the most part I myself literally just draw random room shapes until I draw a design that I think I have not drawn before and that looks decent. Sometimes I'm inspired by another map or game, or image etc and make that and add it on my maps as well.

So basically I usually just blindly throw darts at a dartboard until something sticks. Usually I literally just add the monsters and guns and ammo once I'm done with making the map layout and decorating it, with the exception of stuff like adding monsters for key events in a map. Though that doesn't always lead to bad results:

 

Spoiler

MAP05 of my mapset stuck in development hell.

And this is MAP02

 

When I first began making maps I had pretty much no technical knowledge on how to actually make a Doom map but had plenty of ideas and ambition. Now I have more than enough technical knowledge on how to use UDMF* to make maps that play well but I'm creatively sterile most of the time.


*Making polyobjects of all kinds from simple doors to actual moving scripted trains, a basic knowledge of ACS, using 3D floors, dynamic and colored sector lighting, making 3D skyboxes, making scripted events etc

[smeghammer]

I'm not a massively experienced mapper (7 published on ID Games) but here goes anyway, it might be useful...

 

I tend to get a vague idea, and then basically wing it. What I mean is, I get a general thought about what kind of map I want to do and then, once I start actually adding linedefs, I rely on my subconscious to supply details. This works sometimes - something that I like appears and that inspires me to continue and improve it. Sometimes it doesn't though and I do have a number of started but abandoned maps where that inspiration never came. So I suppose for me it is a very artistic rather than technical process.

 

Don't misunderstand me though, in real life I an a programmer and I love the technical capabilities of ACS etc., to extend Doom editing; but that is certainly not the driving force behind inspiration.

[Stupid Bunny]

I guess my process is similar to everyone else so far: I just kind of start putting down sectors, usually once I have a vague sort of vision of what I want the level to be like.  "This one will be deep underground." "This will be a seaside town along a cliff." "Let's just make this one all freaky and shit."  But I no longer set down on paper what I want, instead, as others have said, just kind of letting ideas come as I progress.  Sometimes I start to draw linedefs and then discover that an idea doesn't work the way I want it to, in which case the best thing usually, I find, is to just kinda step out of the box a bit and see how to make something different out of it instead.  (I don't like deleting whole areas of my maps, although I've done it in a couple cases, like when I thought a giant fullbright maze with REDWALL1 everywhere was a good idea for some reason.)

 

There's times I come to an area and I get a super rad idea for a progression, or setpiece, or trap or what have you, and other times where I can be stuck with mappers block for months with no satisfying idea of what to put somewhere.  In this case, again, the best option is usually to put aside whatever notions for that area I might have and just start drawing stuff.  A stairway, some ledges, a big open room, but once geometry starts to manifest itself in front of me I usually begin to get ideas anew, whole new ones that obviate whatever vague old ideas I had had but never felt like implementing.

 

Sometimes I also have to step back and see if my maps are getting overly long and if it's time to shrink my ambitions for the map by like maybe 10%, which I usually don't regret doing because they still end up pretty long anyway, honestly making small punchy maps is a bigger challenge for me than anything.  In fact one of my better maps (I think) is also one of the smaller ones and originally was supposed to be the "intro" to an enormous final map of some sort.  When I just snipped it off and put an exit behind the door it turned out a pretty short but intense map.  I guess the lesson there is don't be afraid to reevaluate what you're doing along the way.

[Samuel Slayer]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:30 AM, maxmanium said:

I know almost everything about the editing process (for vanilla), but when it comes time to make the actual gameplay, my mind is blank. I've never been super creative to begin with, but right now especially I just have no creative juices flowing whatsoever. How do experienced mappers consistently (as it seems at least) come up with these varied, dynamic, fun maps?

Well I'm not sure if I qualify as an experienced mapper. Been doing it for about 2 years so I'm fairly recent. Anyway, it's a constant struggle for inspiration. Generally I come up with the idea before I start mapping. Staring at a blank screen only gives me a mapper's block. I play wads or other games and constantly think about what would be a cool map. Here's an example. I was playing Ancient Gods and thought that the Blood Swamps could be a cool idea for a recreation for Episode 4 type of toxic swamp setting and started thinking how it could be recreated in Doombuilder. As of how to make/design the actual gameplay, you need only to take inspiration on other wads or just think about what these monsters are and what they do and how well they could play in what environment. Generally when you have no idea how to generate gameplay, I'd tell you to go play a wad and take note how the gameplay flows in what areas and how the monsters are used.

[valkiriforce]

It definitely hits everybody differently. For one thing I think it helps to know what works best for you when exploring all the options for coming up with a map: is it a map title? An interesting layout? Texture themes? Traps and gimmicks? A music track?

 

I feel like there are a lot of ways to come up with maps and it hasn't always been the same way. It could be as simple as coming up with an interesting title, and imagining what kind of abstract or realistic designs would accompany that title idea. Maybe look through a set of sky textures and find something you like, and make something that fits the atmosphere of that skybox. Maybe it'll help to take a break and do other activities or play other games, sometimes I've had ideas come to me when running at the park, or playing a different game entirely. You can look for some good textures and see what looks cool or interesting, and try to imagine how they might be used in a map. You can combine any number of these different inspirations and toy around with it for a while.

 

If you're having trouble with monster placement, it might help to try and summon different monsters in different spots when playing the map. I tried it recently on a map I was working on and it was interesting playing around with what seemed more feasible and what had to be scrapped.

[maxmanium]

2 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

A music track?

 

Nailed it. It's a huge part of the experience for me. Unfortunately I get stuck there because it feels too gimmicky to base it around a music track if that makes any sense.

[valkiriforce]

Tell me about it. I can think of at least one map where a music track inspired me, and it had sort of a lowkey upbeat (is there such a thing?) feeling to it, I felt like the song would encourage the player to keep powering through for that, "almost there!" feeling, so I ended up putting in lots of traps and connecting sequences mixed with some bait-and-switch moments. Was pretty fun, but it took a while to discover that personality for it.

[Samuel Slayer]

I do believe that a good designer has built themselves quite an impressive mental library from their collective experiences in their craft. Do some designs. Do you need some kind of a reference point to what you're trying to achieve? Is your reference point visual? Is it game design theory? Are you making it combat focused or exploration focused? Do you have any ideas? You can't make stuff out of nothing, unless you're a very vivid person. Do you want a medieval themed level? Start making castles. Do you want a combat wad? Start messing around with interesting arenas for combat to take place in. Do you want exploration wad? Create interesting places to visit. Do you want to know how to make that one specific thing? Go out and see what it looks like. There's inspiration and ideas a google search a way. If you don't know what to do, maybe you need to work on yourself and gain reference and knowledge. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Samuel Slayer

[JezChrist]

LSD

 

Shit tons of LSD.

[Yumheart]

Option 1: I sit in front of a blank piece of paper and then sketch up whatever comes to my mind.

Option 2: I play doom or watch other people play doom. When I see a nice layout, I'll change it a bit and then look if it'd fit in.

I've made one map that I would consider good, so you should prob take this with a grain of salt . w.

[Azuris]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:04 AM, xvertigox said:

It varies for me. Typically, I'll choose a few gameplay elements or set pieces I want to include (hordes of imps to rocket launcher, platforming with lost souls (bleh), demonic/kvlt as fuck church etc). Then I'll start drawing stuff, usually the start room or a set piece depending on the map. I'll usually have an idea for progression at this point (linear, non-linear, 3key exit etc).

 

 

Thats actually a good Advice.

 

Build something you have in Mind, than imagine in your Head how you want to get there and where you want the Player to get next.

 

You have to think that you are the Director and you have to put the Set pieces together to lead the Protagonist through the Level.

What do you want to let the Protagonist expierience.

[Major Arlene]

Much of my layouts are derivative of other games, other Doom maps, and then I art them up to my tastes. I'm currently working on a facade found in Skyrim but will likely look a bit like a Ribbiks map on the inside. Then I'll boil it down to weapons and monster implementation, and finish detailing after that. For example, I might have a very open room but want to put revenants in it, so then I'll put in some columns for the player to hide behind. I may also add 3D floors if I feel I want to add height variances to my fights (Technicolor Antichrist Box plasma gun area is a good example of this.)

[SiMpLeToNiUm]

1 ingredient is pure, raw experience and lots of f'ups and learning experiences. Some people are naturally talented, yeah, but most aren't.
Next is what you want from the map. Nail down what you want and make sure the experience (if this is your goal (which it probably should be)) is fun, (a map that's fun to build is generally fun to play) is focused and accomplishes the goals you set for the project. If you can't keep a strict focus on what even the intent with your map is supposed to be, you'll often run into these types of roadblocks where you don't know what you're looking at or why you can't make progress.

Edit: Furthermore, take it in chunks. Often we want instantaneous gratification for a process that is supposed to be developmental and iterative. If you focus on achieving things bit by bit rather than trying to get it all done in big, massive wholesale gobs you'll have a lot more success.

[Skeletonpatch]

Been mapping for like twelve years at this point, only published four maps at this point. Ironically most of the maps I've made are for Doom, yet only one of the four publicly available are.

 

In my case, I try to come up with a fun environment and scenario. I start drawing in the editor and see how that idea expands and changes. When I first started mapping, I must have churned out over a hundred maps in the span of two or three years. Thankfully none of those have been released, they all sucked. Now I mostly make maps when I come across a community project that strikes my fancy. A cool theme supplied by an outside source is a great way to get the creative juices going.

 

I honestly don't play very many custom .wads, and could probably count the number of full mapsets I've completed (aside from IWADs) on one hand. Ironically, many people have drawn direct comparisons from my map in Nova III to various classic maps in mapsets I've never played.

[ZeMystic]

I've been mapping for close to 4 years now, and I don't know how either.

 

For me it starts out as, I'll draw a room that looks good on the auto map, and then add the gameplay. It probably isn't the best way to do things, and heaven knows how many good maps have been trashed because I didn't like the way the overhead map looked. Other times it's a something like, hey what would be a fun trap? and then build the trap for the room and then edit the room. However this leads to smaller rooms and not main focus pieces.

[NeedHealth]

This thread is going to be interesting because I honestly don't know. What I do know is I have a strong internal visual eye and maybe that plays a part.

 

That being said there can go months where I stare at the editor without any ideas of how to start.

 

So the short answer is: either you're born with the ability to make doom maps, or you're not. :-P

[0o0[ULTIM4TE]L1FE[F0RM]0o0]

Well, I don't feel like my maps are masterpieces, but I feel like I could add something to this conversation so I'll write a reply. The way how I come up with more areas and rooms and enemies to add is by just creating a sector. My first sector is basically just messing with textures and architecture until I find a combination of shapes and textures that look good.

 

When I have something that looks nice on the eye, I just randomly place enemies. The first rooms I start with placing just a few smaller enemies, but I already think about where I could add objects you could find coverage if I place a lot of hitscan-enemies. However, that would be pretty boring if I just placed a few chests or a pillar or whatever with only hitscan-guys in the room, so I add a faster enemy like the pinkie, or maybe a few different enemies that can shoot projectiles from far away. However if you have to dodge an Impball, you have to go out of your coverage, but since you have hitscan enemies, I personally find myself shooting the hitscan guys first while dodging a slower projectile which for the most part works.

 

However it's impossible to do that if you either have too many hitscan guys or too many Imps, so harder battles have more Imps or more Hitscan guys giving the imps more time to walk to you. Or if it's supposed to be harder but without adding too many Imps, I could add a Hell Knight which takes more time to take out so you have first take off the Hitscan guys while simultaneously trying to not get damaged by slower enemies which can be dodged, but it's also important to playtest and then change the rooms over and over again until I find something like a "golden spot", that's also the reason why relatively small maps that I created already have a giant ton of enemies because behind more coverages I put a lot of sleeping enemies that only activate in the moment you walk to them which will, most likely, not happen before you managed to take out all the enemies that attacked you in the first half of the room.

 

However it still shouldn't all be too small because you still want a lot of room to move, because the movement of Doom is just awesome and having enough room to actually dodge projectiles alongside of pinkies and maybe spectres and maybe sometimes even revenant rockets is really really important. And having enough room will give you enough space to manage to, let's say, make a homing rocket hit a chest while taking out pinkies with your SSG and taking out hitscan guys(which are, of course, placed in such a way that you get a reasonable chance to actually shoot them down first).

 

You see, even though I'm just a starter and I probably know like only 1% of what else I should do, it's very important to just keep playtesting because your ideas will cross your mind the moment you're actually playing your map. So many times I've played though Doom 2 and more than once I thought how cool it would be if another enemy would come out there and there, etc. It's more like a stomach feeling but when you keep testing, you're going to end up with something you personally find fun in blasting through, and that's how I kind of come up with my own stuff I guess.

 

Well, that's a lot of text, but it's basically the same with the visual aspect of things. I create a room, take a random texture that gives me a certain mood that I feel like wanting to have at the moment(For example, there's that one brick wall that looks like a brown wall that was infected with some green plants or something), I like to combine that one with the pipe textures, giving you the feel of a wastewater system or something which was used by the UAC to experiment with so you could make a big room where all those different pipelines are but at some point you can just randomly place one of those pipelines where blood runs out, so you might as well create another sector at that texture that looks like a giant pool of blood, I just love to do stuff like that.

 

Or you might even create a giant computer room with monitors placed everywhere, so might be that one object you could find coverage behind while you take out different enemies and stuff, you know, the thing I described earlier. Also enemies can be placed at those screens, looking at them and waking up the moment you shoot one of their group because that usually results in all of them waking up and attacking you, so you'd basically just to keep paytesting it and adding or removing enemies that you feel like would make that fight fun. You just have to see what works best in the room you just made. However, every room you do should still look like something like an arena or something because after all, Doom is still an arena-shooter and rooms should be bigger areas where Doom's smooth movement can be used to run around dodging stuff while shooting enemies. And, once again, place hitscan-guys in open areas where they will most likely be able to shot first, and also don't place TOO big groups of them, unless they are in something like a tighter corner because that will make you be able to take them all down in a single SSG shot or with the chain gun. It's soooo unbelievably important to get that one aspect right and that's why I specially want to remind to do that.

 

Also, based on the size and amount of enemies in a room, I determine how much ammo and health pickups I place. However, don't be too generous with it - You don't have to be on 100% health and full ammo all the time, another element of Doom is still resource management, depending on the difficulty of a room you should place pickups and ammo accordingly. Since no one is really perfect, it would probably be a good choice to first look how much ammo the shotgunners and regular zombies drop and if that's not enough, you might want to place so many ammo that if you did well in the fight, you are rewarded with getting a little bit more ammo when finishing the room than you had before you went there. You know, we all know those moments when we're having a really good day and we do almost perfectly in every fight, and if you are that good, you should be rewarded with having a decent amount of ammunition for the next fight. However it shouldn't also be unfair, so placing only so little ammo that if you miss one single shot each fight you end up having to fight with the chainsaw isn't really any fun at all in my opinion, unless you are a fan of extremely difficult hardcore levels, but I don't do that.

 

However it's also important to also create differently looking areas, so you might maybe want to combine computer rooms together with sectors that like in my example give you the feeling of maybe some wastewater system, or also maybe some rooms with just chests in them to create a little sense of some diversity. However, it should still be noted that I would rather play a WAD that's just 20 giant computer rooms but with very well designed fights over a WAD that has awesome looking different areas but pretty unfair or boring and too easy combat. I'm not saying you shouldn't be creative, but even the best looking area wouldn't make me stick around in a really boring or just unfairly hard fight.