Super shotgun too op

[Henry]

So Me and two of my friends were playing doom 2 on multiplayer.Then one of them start complaining that super shotgun is too op and there is no point of using other guns.Personally I think that Super shotgun is great weapon and changing it in any way will ruin it.

[Retro Dino]

I would usually agree with this, but you really do have to just get good. I get one shotted a lot, but i also one shot a lot of people. It's all about how much time you spend playing. IMO the OP gun is the plasma gun, fuck that thing. (Even though I'm pretty toxic with it lol)

[DRM-MAN]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

So Me and two of my friends were playing doom 2 on multiplayer.Then one of them start complaining that super shotgun is too op and there is no point of using other guns.Personally I think that Super shotgun is great weapon and changing it in any way will ruin it.

Bfg is worse, just shoot at the wall and look at your opponent, then they'll get turned into crispy remains.

[wallabra]

You sound like 13 year old me when I used to play Zandronum duel.

 

Look, the Super Shotgun is not OP. It just needs reflexes to be avoided, because it can kill a lot quicker than all the other guns, except the BFG but I mean that's a superweapon. In that regard the SSG is like UT's Flak Cannon, while the BFG is like UT's Redeemer. The super-weapon is an easy and guaranteed kill, but is a lot harder (and more occasional) to obtain, whereas the former can make for a very fast frag if you know how to use it.

 

The thing is the SSG is way too easy to obtain; in fact, in lots of DM maps it is the "default" weapon that is right there when you respawn. It should be like the other weapons, maybe a little bit harder/riskier to reach. And in most maps, armour is present waaay too sparingly, both in Doom and in UT. I wonder if those instances are related anyhow. Armour is pretty important, but it's not easy to notice that in the heat of fight, until you realize how much damage you had to tank in order to survive that stupid idiot who thought they could surprise-bamboozle you round that corner. Pfft, that stupid idiot.

[DRM-MAN]

Also the super shotgun can be a hinderance, if you don't time your shots well, you're at risk for a rocket, or bfg ;).

[GraphicBleeder]

Git Gud lol.

[Henry]

8 hours ago, DRMman said:

Bfg is worse, just shoot at the wall and look at your opponent, then they'll get turned into crispy remains.

Yeah but they said that it's meant to be op

[Doomkid]

I will say that deathmatch servers running Doom1 DM or wads that otherwise don’t feature much SSG tend to die down quickly or hardly get played in the first place. One of the biggest thrills that keeps people coming back to Doom DM is, at least in my experience, the combination of all the factors: the speed of movement, the satisfying sound of the SSG itself and seeing your irritatingly zippy opponent get reduced to a heap in just one blast.

 

Doom FFA’s strength is its speed. Anything that gives players either too much health, or similarly too little killing power, is basically acting at inherent opposition with the most thrilling aspect of the game in multiplayer, that being the fact that it’s literally the fastest PVP FPS experience in existence.

 

Maps that are dominated by single barrel and chainguns, maps that have lots of health and armour (and Hell, having items respawn at all) are all generally things that don’t hold the interest of the common DMer for the same reason that larger, more exploratory maps are also typically unplayed, and again it’s that they detract from the “speed focused” gameplay. By contrast, stuff like EXEC, Brit11, and select DWANGO maps stay at least somewhat relevant year after year because they’re small, very easy to zip around in, and stuffed full of SSGs and BFGs. This gives a setup that offers all the quickness and nonstop action that multiplayer Doomers tend to seek.

 

If I had to wager a guess as to why slow-paced/exploratory/“high health and low damage” DM isn’t in demand in FFA Doom servers, it’s probably because - much as I hate to admit it - other games have the “slow paced, thoughtful PVP FPS” demand covered, and they generally cater to a player seeking that kind of gameplay better than Doom does (at least in PVP - Coop and survival are a completely different story). On the other hand, you can’t get that high-octane, break-neck speed of Doom deathmatch anywhere else. You get it from Doom DM, or you simply don’t get it at all - unlike the situation with more “slow burn” style gameplay, which is available in basically every FPS with some sort of PVP game mode.

 

I turned the questions of “why does Doom 1 style/SSG-free DM never get played”, “why do larger maps tend to kill servers”, and “why does item respawn tend to make the game more boring” over in my head for years and this is ultimately the conclusion I came to.

 

tl;dr People want extremely rapidfire gameplay in Doom DM and the SSG caters to that desire perfectly.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Doomkid

[DOEL]

The SSG is perfectly balanced but you might need to try some harder WADs to truly experience that. It's extremely versatile and fits between the light and heavy weapons nicely along with the plasma gun.

[Zillah]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

I will say that deathmatch servers running Doom1 DM or wads that otherwise don’t feature much SSG tend to die down quickly or hardly get played in the first place. One of the biggest thrills that keeps people coming back to Doom DM is, at least in my experience, the combination of all the factors: the speed of movement, the satisfying sound of the SSG itself and seeing your irritatingly zippy opponent get reduced to a heap in just one blast.

 

Doom FFA’s strength is its speed. Anything that gives players either too much health, or similarly too little killing power, is basically acting at inherent opposition with the most thrilling aspect of the game in multiplayer, that being the fact that it’s literally the fastest PVP FPS experience in existence.

 

Maps that are dominated by single barrel and chainguns, maps that have lots of health and armour (and Hell, having items respawn at all) are all generally things that don’t hold the interest of the common DMer for the same reason that larger, more exploratory maps are also typically unplayed, and again it’s that they detract from the “speed focused” gameplay. By contrast, stuff like EXEC, Brit11, and select DWANGO maps stay at least somewhat relevant year after year because they’re small, very easy to zip around in, and stuffed full of SSGs and BFGs. This gives a setup that offers all the quickness and nonstop action that multiplayer Doomers tend to seek.

 

If I had to wager a guess as to why slow-paced/exploratory/“high health and low damage” DM isn’t in demand in FFA Doom servers, it’s probably because - much as I hate to admit it - other games have the “slow paced, thoughtful PVP FPS” demand covered, and they generally cater to a player seeking that kind of gameplay better than Doom does (at least in PVP - Coop and survival are a completely different story). On the other hand, you can’t get that high-octane, break-neck speed of Doom deathmatch anywhere else. You get it from Doom DM, or you simply don’t get it at all - unlike the situation with more “slow burn” style gameplay, which is available in basically every FPS with some sort of PVP game mode.

 

I turned the questions of “why does Doom 1 style/SSG-free DM never get played”, “why do larger maps tend to kill servers”, and “why does item respawn tend to make the game more boring” over in my head for years and this is ultimately the conclusion I came to.

 

tl;dr People want extremely rapidfire gameplay in Doom DM and the SSG caters to that desire perfectly.

 

sorry, can't read. super shotgun op get gud ez gg

[Azuris]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:41 AM, Henry said:

So Me and two of my friends were playing doom 2 on multiplayer.Then one of them start complaining that super shotgun is too op and there is no point of using other guns.Personally I think that Super shotgun is great weapon and changing it in any way will ruin it.

 

Hm no, you have to be close to use it well and hit the Target.

Between the Shots you are a welcome Victim and People with ranged Weapons like the Plasma Gun will mow you down.

And the Rocket Launcher used well will lead into many fast kills.

The Chaingun needs wide Levels to be usefull.

 

But nobody can deny that it is the most Fun to kill People with the Chainsaw.

[DevastatioN]

The SSG has the most utility of any gun in doom2, and can be used in a lot of situations.  That being said, it's strongest in an open arena, close-range, mid-range, hallway surprises.  Most players choose maps that are open, hence making the SSG the best weapon to choose most of the time.  Also most players enjoy playing aggressively and close the distance between themselves and opponents quickly, making the SSG also the best weapon to choose most of the time.

 

Other weapons are good in their own specific instances.  Chaingun is a great weapon for long-range, especially when you learn the tapping technique to make it accurate.  If you want to annoy your friend and show them that the SSG is not overpowered, play a map where you can get a chaingun and sit at range, slowly tapping their health down while you back-up and maintain long-range distance.  My bet is that your friend will be like "dude, stop being a coward and running away, that's so annoying" instead of accepting that the SSG is not as overpowered as originally thought! :)

 

Rocket launcher is a good controlling weapon in tight spaces.  Plasma is also very good at controlling tight spaces and deals a ton of damage if you catch someone.  BFG is good for controlling your opponent and taking advantage of their mistakes if they misplace themselves.  Shotgun (single barrel) is good at long range as well.

 

If you want to take my chaingun troll even further... grab a chaingun and BFG.  Keep long-range distance, tap your friend down.  When you see them getting ready to rush you, switch to BFG and blast them with a cone off a nearby wall.

 

TLDR: SSG has the most utility and good in most situations but every gun has it's pros and cons, but most maps are built in a way that benefit the SSG, most players play in a way that benefits the SSG.  Want to get the most out of each gun?  Create situations that are good for that specific weapon.

[Azuris]

On 1/31/2021 at 5:22 AM, Gustavo6046 said:

 

The thing is the SSG is way too easy to obtain; in fact, in lots of DM maps it is the "default" weapon that is right there when you respawn. It should be like the other weapons, maybe a little bit harder/riskier to reach.

 

Yep, this is true.

It gets boring fast if a Mapset has no Variation in Weapons (and a Layout that allows to use them).

[Hatred]

This is a pretty complicated discussion, but I’ll try to make a concise analysis on the matter. 
 

In short, the SSG is objectively overpowered. The fact is that in order for other weapons to shine, a specific map has to be catered to do just that. Perhaps you only have one SSG; perhaps you remove the SSG entirely; perhaps you create some trick or control point around the ssg (in the first example this wasn’t done but it likely becomes the control point). It is indisputable that this is true. The ssg is the most dominant weapon because of dooms physics and mechanics: you are incredibly fast, typically silent, and the maps that play best in DM tend to be smaller. For that reason, the SSG is the weapon of choice. While the BFG can be powerful in many of these situations, it has some significant drawbacks: it has a charge time to fire, it’s projectile based (though the tracers are hitscan, you can still avoid this), and you don’t get as many opportunities to fire the weapon. In other words, in most scenarios the SSG is the ideal weapon and it requires some creativity from mappers to see to it that these scenarios are balanced out some. 
 

This sounds great. Here’s the problem: this simplicity is what makes doom so charming. As doomkid and dev have stated, people love this type of gameplay and removing them from it is a tall task. Maps that do see some balance in weapons tend to dictate that the SSG is ideal, but other weapons are mandatory to use (map01 is the perfect example of this). The question becomes then: does it matter? That’s what people want and it’s the staple of doom2 dm history, so why adjust it? I wouldn’t adjust it at a physics level (I.E universally nerfing it in a source ports code), but instead I’d add weapon mods with equal power. This has been done with some critically acclaimed success in various projects.
 

So what I would say is that if you don’t like SSG-oriented gameplay, there are some good alternatives. However, it is likely that you probably can’t entirely avoid it. 

[magicsofa]

I like to pwn ssg users with chaingun and regular shotgun.