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ABRACADABRA

Sad news on new unreleased content

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10 hours ago, inkoalawetrust said:

These actual sentences from the Doom Wiki article on Wikipedia don't seem to be very factual or devoid of personal opinion to me.

It's difficult to be impartial when dozens of articles you put a ton of effort into were mercilessly slaughtered by elements of the "Deletionist Squad" and the "Cabal" (self-assigned names among many of these groups' members on Wikipedia in 2006) mere months after Jimbo called them a significant and valuable part of the site in a public speech. The whole thing seemed a bit off.

 

The unilateral imposition of WP:SOFTWARE, largely by the deletionist group who had amongst their number a significant amount of admins able to shout over any AfDs and simply declare their outcomes invalid for whatever reason they wished, saw all of the source port articles on Wikipedia deleted in the same month.

 

I admit it's most likely that this had little to do with what was at the time Wikicities. But it was likely thanks to other signs of impropriety between WMF and Wikia that people were willing to believe such things (a few years later they nearly got in hot water for contracting stuff out to each other; Wikia regularly hired off WP admins and people knowledgeable about MediaWiki editing and maintenance; Jimbo himself was for a while on the boards of both organizations, which is a huge COI).

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I love the reactions in this.

Romero: "id wasn't happy at me releasing development stuff without even asking them first if it was okay"

Doomworld: "fucking Bethesda! Hopefully Microsoft will be nice and release everything for free."

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I'm just reminded of the time when two people at E3 took credit for "inventing the FPS genre" just because they owned id, which happened sometime before the Doom Eternal segment.

 

I also wonder how many people are even aware of these news.

Because i assume some aren't informed on this and i can't imagine anyone going "this is good, actually" without some form of contrarianism.

I still think the approach in modern Doom marketing and Slayer's Club feels like Bethesda knows Doom fans are loyal but wants to recontextualize it.

Like, something that feels opposite to how Doom fans treated Doom, going from "it's like Carmack gave us the car keys and we technically own this" to whatever RLM joke you use to describe it.

15 hours ago, Edward850 said:

It's an interesting thought but it's not as true as you'd think. Doom64 as a project was pitched because the folks at id were themselves fans of Doom64, such as Hugo Martin. The "fan ports" didn't really apply and to some respects were poisoning the well given most of them were just asset rips in name only. We were actually concerned if the project would have been well received both internally and publicly given how prevalent the whole "just download BD64 lol" mindset was. 

 

Doom64 EX also wasn't a necessary part of the project. It did give us a head start but the rerelease itself was rebuilt out of the initial specs, and disassembly continued from there. Without it we'd simply just have more to disassemble, which we'd have done anyway. 

That at least corrects my statement and is realistic, even if the more "ethical" mindset could be "a beloved title in a series with few games isn't accessable without emulation or fan methods, so an official port that is also more faithfull and polished is needed, plus we're not Nintendo".

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13 hours ago, Revenant100 said:

However, that thread did lead me back to a Romero tweet highly relevant to these troubled times....

 

Oh hey, look, Xaser's on the TV now! Hey Xaser! Can you see me from there?!

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OMG. I wasn't expecting this to blow up as it did. I haven't read every answer in this thread yet, but yeah, I didn't wanted to confuse anyone or made anyone angry etc, just wanted to share what I learned myself. yes, the discord server was nuked that day, but I didn't remembered if this discussion happened before or after nuking. John answered a good bit of questions asked that day by many people and this was just one of them. And please, don't harrass the person who asked the question, it's not me. And no, I did not wanted any attention. To be honest, I did not even expected, that one of the most devoted to Romero's games community don't even know they can talk to the man himself in his chat channel

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On 2/3/2021 at 4:54 AM, Revenant100 said:

However, that thread did lead me back to a Romero tweet highly relevant to these troubled times:

 

So, yes, there is indeed "a ton more" Doom, Quake, and other id Software stuff waiting to be seen, as stated by the man himself before Bethesda mercilessly crushed his hopes and dreams with their mighty legal magicks.

Being a December 2014 tweet, this is likely a reference to the April 2015 Data Release by Romero.

 

The waiting to be seen you mention is about this.

 

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Speaking of fans keeping a series alive, it's also because a third party group or anyone once unrelated is usually the most realistic "authoraty" on archiving/preserving certain contents.

Like how in a museum, the people preserving some pieces of history have no relation or affiliation with the contents, unless there's some exceptions like later generations of a family or something.

Like at some point, even Disney will die somehow, so someone would try to keep up with what is left of them.

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9 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Being a December 2014 tweet, this is likely a reference to the April 2015 Data Release by Romero.

 

The waiting to be seen you mention is about this.

The lost Possessed Humans and Doomguy rotation sprites (or any of the other complete monster sprite sheets) were obviously not among anything released in April of 2015, and as noted in the article you linked, not everything he released in that month was new as he had been tweeting out some of that content earlier for Doom's 21st birthday, and some of the things he tweeted didn't appear in the April 2015 dump either (helpfully notated here). Additionally, the hundreds of unused Quake textures I just mentioned were not among the April 2015 stuff as well.

 

April 2015 hardly marked the end of what was to come. If anything, it was an exciting beginning. Romero clearly has far more in his possession that he has a willingness to share with the community, but id swiftly put an end to that.

 

And just looking over these old threads again, we know Romero was ceased and desisted as early as 2016:

 

Edited by Revenant100

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24 minutes ago, Revenant100 said:

The lost Possessed Humans and Doomguy rotation sprites (or any of the other complete monster sprite sheets) were obviously not among anything released in April of 2015, and as noted in the article you linked, not everything he released in that month was new as he had been tweeting out some of that content earlier for Doom's 21st birthday, and some of the things he tweeted didn't appear in the April 2015 dump either (helpfully notated here). Additionally, the hundreds of unused Quake textures I just mentioned were not among the April 2015 stuff as well.

 

April 2015 hardly marked the end of what was to come. If anything, it was an exciting beginning. Romero clearly has far more in his possession that he has a willingness to share with the community, but id swiftly put an end to that.

 

And just looking over these old threads again, we know Romero was ceased and desisted as early as 2016:

 

That was not readily apparent in your earlier post. That one suggested that there was a ton more coming - Which was the April 2015 release for Doom.

 

That the Quake stuff isn't there, may have something to do with the impression that the Quake community is... less coherent?

So, yeah. Romero is tied now, so the April 2015 was just a golden nugget that we actually weren't supposed to access, but we got it anyway.

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And it also confirms that it was indeed ZeniMax who contacted Romero, as I initially speculated, and not id Software, like Romero phrased it originally on Discord.

 

At any rate, I guess this subject's closed now. No more unreleased classic Doom or Quake content. Enjoy what you have.

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Comprehensible. I mean, this kind of content is useful to Bethesda as they continue to implement their own original features into Doom. Like the restart bug in Underhalls.

 

:o)

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1 minute ago, Sunnyfruit said:

Comprehensible. I mean, this kind of content is useful to Bethesda as they continue to implement their own original features into Doom. Like the restart bug in Underhalls.

 

:o)

 

You're probably thinking of the super secret exit to MAP33 Betray.

 

That map is not supported by all ports, and the BFG Edition has it removed on PC if I recall correctly, they just forgot to remove the exit too, causing the map to simply restart when engaging it.

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Just now, seed said:

 

You're probably thinking of the super secret exit to MAP33 Betray.

 

That map is not supported by all ports, and the BFG Edition has it removed on PC if I recall correctly, they just forgot to remove the exit too, causing the map to simply restart when engaging it.

 

Yes, it was the one I was thinking about. It's a pretty sloppy fix for such a big company.

 

The fact that this C&D behavior finally got to the products made before id became "a brand" (to use Civvie's expression) is full of lessons to say the least.

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2 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

Yes, it was the one I was thinking about. It's a pretty sloppy fix for such a big company.

 

The fact that this C&D behavior finally got to the products made before id became "a brand" (to use Civvie's expression) is full of lessons to say the least.

 

And they did fix it, it's gone in the Unity edition.

 

And well, Doom is a lot bigger now, so naturally the companies want to protect their brands. I do still think that, if maybe Romero thought it through, we could have seen the rest one day too - remember, we got the 3DO stuff from Rebecca for instance, so it definitely was possible.

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2 minutes ago, seed said:

 

And they did fix it, it's gone in the Unity edition.

 

And well, Doom is a lot bigger now, so naturally the companies want to protect their brands. I do still think that, if maybe Romero thought it through, we could have seen the rest one day too - remember, we got the 3DO stuff from Rebecca for instance, so it definitely was possible.

 

He didn't see coming, well, that's too bad. At least we saw a lot of stuff, and the modding community is still going strong. In the end I think it's better to think of the assets that can be made now rather than obsessing about the cut content from the past.

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9 hours ago, seed said:

Doom is a lot bigger now, so naturally the companies want to protect their brands.

Next on the "hit list": source ports and/or their usage of the term "Doom" and derivatives thereof?

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16 minutes ago, Maes said:

Next on the "hit list": source ports and/or their usage of the term "Doom" and derivatives thereof?

 

Ah shit, RIP ZDoom mate :p.

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3 hours ago, Maes said:

Next on the "hit list": source ports and/or their usage of the term "Doom" and derivatives thereof?

Didn't that happen to Doom the Rougelike?

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3 hours ago, Maes said:

Next on the "hit list": source ports and/or their usage of the term "Doom" and derivatives thereof?

finally, we will get rid of GZDoom, and The Real And True Sourceports will rule the world!

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So, after the "N" word, we'll also have the "D" word. Groan.

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6 hours ago, Maes said:

Next on the "hit list": source ports and/or their usage of the term "Doom" and derivatives thereof?

if they did that 
they would prob get a massive riot and then undo their pr nightmare badly

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1 hour ago, MLGari said:

if they did that 
they would prob get a massive riot and then undo their pr nightmare badly

If only the Real World (TM) worked like that...what's more probable is that some overzealous CEO will say to his team or razor-sharp dressed assault lawyers: "I don't know and don't wanna know what a 'source port' is and what a 'modding community' is, all I know is that there's stuff out there using our Doom trademark, I don' t care if it's free or not. Off with their heads!". And it will all be as legal as this "no more freebies" request, as 'Doom' isn't exactly a generic trademark, at least not yet (then again IANAL).

 

Any PR nightmare would be restricted to these forums and a few other places, which, let's be honest, aren't exactly Bethesda's prime market/target group.

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luckily bethesda execs have 2 months to live business-wise before getting eaten by macrohard

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Yes, Microsoft is going to be a lot nicer. :)

 

If there's one thing Microsoft is known for, it's being a kind and ethical business, who'd rather do what's right rather than what's profitable. :) :)

 

They only use fair-trade, organically-grown bytes in their soft! :) :) :)

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Bethesda/Zenimax are evil, also: water is wet. Also a reminder that id wanted to put Denuvo Anti-Cheat in Eternal.

Also, really? Someone unironically thinks Microsoft will be nicer to us, legal-wise? R E A L L Y? If anything, they'll double down on that shit, probably even Nintendo-tier in worst-case scenario.

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Knowing how scummy Bethesda/ZeniMax can be, i just remembered when some people said that Doom 2016 had an "anti-corporatism" message because of the idea of UAC harvesting Hell energy or even something about the holographc PR people in 2016 and Eternal.

Kinda funny to think about it, when Doom became a bit more corporate as a brand, has a bigger focus on its fanbase as being part of marketing and Eternal even handles cosmetics with timed events like a mobile game.

A contrast to the "hacker like ethics" mentallity of Carmack that lead to fans almost controlling the series through decades of time and maybe the series' overall themes in a time when violent videogames and Satanism were topics.

 

I'm also not sure how better MS can treat id when you remember Rare as a whole and even what happened with Platinum, if you consider Scalebound. (because one is a major publisher that had a terrible history with Japanese devs and the other used to make games in a shorter span of time until MS insisted on cramming features and drove the studio to a terrible state until Nier: Automata saved Platinum, even though it's also been like 3 years since the announcement of Bayonetta 3 but this if off-topic for a Doom thread)

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The sky is falling! They're gonna come steal your custom cacodemon figurines!

 

It is kinda shitty that they care about the unreleased stuff, and hopefully someone sees this thread and takes it upon themselves to find a means to get it to the community... But I doubt Microsoft are going to crack down on the usage of the word "doom" in an ip that's been self perpetuating for >25 years.

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2 hours ago, MLGari said:

if they did that 
they would prob get a massive riot and then undo their pr nightmare badly

 

It's actually interesting that people are mentioning Nintendo in this thread as Nintendo has hordes of fanboys spamming "emulation = theft" (especially during the mini announcements) on Twitter. So no, there won't be any riot from the reddit legions, maybe a stock refunding of Microsoft at most to save it from evil bankers.

Now the source ports aren't owned by Microsoft/Bethesda, not even the vanilla engine. And I don't think "Doom" and "ZDoom" are the same word. I'm pretty sure they can't do anything even if they tried.

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