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Daerik

The DWIronman League dies to: Alien Vendetta

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Figured I'd finally join in officially on one of these events.

 

Category 1, died on map 11, 146/231 monsters. I might be one of the few people here who's never played AV - I've only read about it/its levels in the Cacowards / etc.

 

Spoiler

This may be the most methodical run you'll watch this month. It's not exciting by any means. I was checking every corner and watching my back the whole time.

 

The 3.5 hour demo is 1.8 MB uncompressed. PRBoom 2.5.1.4, complevel 2.

 

Cumulative times and real-time end-of-level notes

MAP 01: 4:40 - Accidentally found the SSG thinking it may be a deep pit.

MAP 02: 13:35 - I thought the slime was a damaging sector until nearly the end...

MAP 03: 24:50 - You can see me realize I forgot the green armor right as I dropped down to the exit.

MAP 04: 42:36 - That hallway ambush was insane. Ratcheted up the difficulty out of nowhere. Monster block would likely have ended me.

MAP 05: 58:33 - Got a little lost, used the radsuit to run around the lava thinking I had do something outside the building.

MAP 06: 1:30:12 - Favorite so far, by far. Ammo became a problem near the end, and I had to run away from a ghosted chaingunner while < 40 hp.

MAP 07: 1:39:42 - Didn't realize there was a teleporter in the middle of the starting arena... Fought the Mancubi the hard way.

MAP 08: 2:15:31 - Cool music. Ammo became scarce near the end,

MAP 09: 2:33:23 - Found a secret, and was blasted to 30hp by a Mancubus at the bottom of the lift. Too close.

MAP 10: 3:06:54 - I recognize this from the top 100 maps article. Also fell to < 20hp twice I believe.

MAP 11: 3:38:20 death, 146/231 monsters. Ran out of ammo trying to kill the Cyberdemon. Maybe could have ran past him, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

 

super_av_ironman_cat1.zip

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On 2/2/2021 at 9:39 AM, Daerik said:

# Map10: Bob9001 - Prematurely peeking an arch vile is not a smart move.

Hehe, I had a giggle.

 

Thanks for doing this makes it more enjoyable to look back on :)

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As much as I'd love to call this Cat 1, the truth is even if I haven't touched AV in at least 4-5 years I vaguely remembered all of the four maps I've played. Not necessarily all of them but the overall theme and some of the dastardly traps like the AV on MAP02 (which left me on 19 HP and I am fairly sure two pixels prevented me from dying) and the trap that ultimately killed me on MAP04. Told myself "don't do x if it's that trap", turns out it is that trap, I do x. Good riddance.

 

Cat 2, dead on MAP04. In my defense I played very little Doom between this and last month's challenge.

 

naza_ironman_feb21.zip

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If you wanna see torturing myself in acid while a shotgunner blasted my ass, point blank (aka, the fastest shotgunner from the wildest west of hell), you've come to the right place.

Category 2, dead in map 10 with a total of 1:32:29, 67 of 359 monsters killed in that map. Recorded in GZDoom with the right settings stated in the rules.

 

Video in the spoiler:

Spoiler

 

 

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Died in MAP04, in a trap I knew was coming (basically the very first real trap of the game, we could say), all because that one revenant was clever enough to go back while I was trying to evade the baron and pinky, then blocked my path and punched me in my face. :P

 

EDIT: I forgot! I already had finished the wad a few months ago, so this was a category 2 run.

 

99NT6LY.png

 

ExtraterrestrialRevenge.zip

Edited by Fadri

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...And my Category 2 3 (again with PrB+) run ended at map02 at about 15:20, with 26/106 kills.  If i had been a bit more mindful...

 

Very nice classic-style design this set, i enjoyed the gameplay and level design a lot.

dei-av-cat2.zip

Edited by dei_eldren

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5 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

...And my Category 2 (again with PrB+) run ended at map02 at about 15:20, with 26/106 kills.  If i had been a bit more mindful...

 

Very nice classic-style design this set, i enjoyed the gameplay and level design a lot.

dei-av-cat2.zip

 

A second run in the same month would default to a category 3 run. Essentially any amount of time spent playing or watching the wad after the wad for the month has been announced would make any run you do a category 3.

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34 minutes ago, Daerik said:

 

A second run in the same month would default to a category 3 run. Essentially any amount of time spent playing or watching the wad after the wad for the month has been announced would make any run you do a category 3.

 

My understanding from last month's competition was different, and my only preparation before this Cat2 run was my Cat1 run of half a map, and delayed watching videos of other players after the fact so as not to passively prepare.  Hmm.. but ok, if that's them breaks that's them breaks.  i'll change it to Cat3. Thanks.

 

Have to say though i'm a bit perplexed, since last month i submitted my 2nd run of Kama Sutra (first was Cat1) as Cat3 initially, but was told it would pass as Cat2.

Edited by dei_eldren

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Now I'm confused. I thought category 3 meant you have seen it played but have NOT played it yourself, and any runs that you have played yourself strictly go in prepared.

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20 minutes ago, dei_eldren said:

Have to say though i'm a bit perplexed, since last month i submitted my 2nd run of Kama Sutra (first was Cat1) as Cat3 initially, but was told it would pass as Cat2.

Your run for Kama Sutra last month was for another competition with different rules.

 

6 minutes ago, Arbys550 said:

Now I'm confused. I thought category 3 meant you have seen it played but have NOT played it yourself, and any runs that you have played yourself strictly go in prepared.

From what I understand, it goes like this:

  • Category 1: Never played the wad before.
  • Category 2: Played the wad before.
  • Category 3: Played the wad after knowing it's this month's selection (hence being called prepared runs).

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13 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Your run for Kama Sutra last month was for another competition with different rules.

 

From what I understand, it goes like this:

  • Category 1: Never played the wad before.
  • Category 2: Played the wad before.
  • Category 3: Played the wad after knowing it's this month's selection (hence being called prepared runs).

 

Oh damn, you and Daerik are right.  Think KS was for Endurance, and should've re-read the rules - last month i just went all in in all the competitions and didn't really mind which one was which so they all blended in my head a bit.  Thanks for not letting me sneak in at lower cat for higher points haha :P  Apologies.

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2 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Category 3: Played the wad after knowing it's this month's selection (hence being called prepared runs).

 

Oh, I thought prepared and category 3 were two completely different things.

 

So the categorization goes like this?

  • Standard
    • Category 1
    • Category 2
  • Prepared
    • Category 3

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2 minutes ago, Arbys550 said:

 

Oh, I thought prepared and category 3 were two completely different things.

 

So the categorization goes like this?

  • Standard
    • Category 1
    • Category 2
  • Prepared
    • Category 3

 

Yep. I personally think its a bit unfair to score cat 1 & 2 runs against one another, but I'm not sure of a good solution to that.

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3 hours ago, Daerik said:

 

Yep. I personally think its a bit unfair to score cat 1 & 2 runs against one another, but I'm not sure of a good solution to that.

 

Category 2 itself covers a wide range. Just using Alien Vendetta as an example, whether you played it in 2010 or you played it in mid-January, you still have experience and your run would be Category 2. But does anyone expect that the experience of someone whose memory is a decade old is as good as the memory of someone whose memory is a few weeks old? Yet, they are both grouped into the same category. Yes, this is an extreme example, but it still shows the sort of wide ground that is covered by Category 2, which is defined as "experience with the selection prior to it being announced that month."

 

Looking back over several months with reasonably full leaderboards, there is definitely a preponderance of Category 2 and Category 3 runs at the top. Having foreknowledge of what is coming definitely makes a difference, however, short of splitting the competition into 3 leaderboards (Blind, Experienced, Prepared), there is little you can do about that. Of course, splitting the leaderboards would bring you a headache at the end of the year when tabulating the final scores to determine the winner. You would have to combine score totals from two separate lists, which presents the problem

 

Consider the examples of 50 Monsters and Doom the Way iD Did.

  • For 50 Monsters, there were 38 participants. 14 of them were Category 1. The top 5 Category 1 participants placed 3rd, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 21st overall. For scoring purposes, those 5 would have ended up with a lot more points in a Category 1-only leaderboard than they did on the combined leaderboard. For example, the person that finished 21st overall had 47,400 points. However, in a Category 1-only leaderboard, that same person would have ended up with something like 71,430 points. Similarly, the Category 2-only person who had been 22nd in the combined board would see their score decrease from 44,770 points to something like 37,500 points.
  • For DtWiD, there were 36 participants. 8 of the were Category 1, with Top 2 being 10th and 16th overall. In a Category 1-only leaderboard, the top finisher would have earned 100,000 points vs. 69,530 points they earned on the combined board. Similarly, the next person would have seen their score increase from 50,140 points to something like 87,500 points in a Category 1-only board. Similarly, the person who had been 11th would see their score from 66,760 points increase slightly to 67,860 points.

 

In 2019, ~87,000 points separated 1st and 4th place in the final standings. Would having had Category 1 and Category 2 leaderboards that you combined at the end for a total score have changed the final rankings? Maybe. Of course, you could also just tabulate the final scores based on the Categories and have a Category 1 Top 5 and a Category 2 Top 5, although you would end up with a mish-mash of people with varying numbers of submissions in both categories. It might devolve into a mess. You could also come up with some sort of weighting system, but that might end up causing headaches depending on how far the weighting moved people up or down.

 

At the end of the day, simplicity is why we've just grouped Category 1 and Category 2 together in the "I didn't do anything special to prepare for this month's run" scoring.

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On 2/15/2021 at 7:21 PM, Arbys550 said:

Now I'm confused. I thought category 3 meant you have seen it played but have NOT played it yourself, and any runs that you have played yourself strictly go in prepared.

Yes. The original definition of the NEW category 3 (i.e. from Vanguard in July 2019 onward) was watching someone play the set AFTER it was announced but not playing it yourself. Nobody submitted such run while I was at the helm so I can understand how it'd get mixed up. It was introduced so streamers could still watch each others' runs. Actually now that I think about it, I'm fairly sure in Bloody Rust there's a Cat 3 run on the standard leaderboard. Why and how it was understood as always being active preparation again beats me. 

EDIT: Yes, I_Punch_Demons made a cat 3 (by the post-June 2019 definition) run in Bloody Rust, having watched Austinado's stream before doing their run.

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Alrighty, I did a prepared run....and by prepared, I really mean get past map 8 without somehow causing an all ghosts bug to go off.  I did get past it, cyberdemon panic attack be damned.

 

Eventually, I hit map 31 and, well...GJ ANIMA is quite literally all that can describe the red area progress until my death.

DWIronman_AlienVendetta(Prepared)_AnimaZero.zip

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Y'all dragging me out of the woodworks, here. Posting to remind myself when I get back from out of state to give this a Cat2 attempt. Question, is an lmp file required? Probably a dumb question, but I would be streaming the attempt regardless. 

 

Edit: the lmp question was more for GZDoom attempts since that might be what I'll have to use for the time being and I don't quite remember how lmps work with that port. Sorry for the question, just time is super limited on mobile at the moment and I didn't want to forget to attempt this. 

Edited by Altima : Clarity

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4 hours ago, Altima said:

Y'all dragging me out of the woodworks, here. Posting to remind myself when I get back from out of state to give this a Cat2 attempt. Question, is an lmp file required? Probably a dumb question, but I would be streaming the attempt regardless. 

 

Edit: the lmp question was more for GZDoom attempts since that might be what I'll have to use for the time being and I don't quite remember how lmps work with that port. Sorry for the question, just time is super limited on mobile at the moment and I didn't want to forget to attempt this. 

It's an either/or case; you basically need to document your playthrough in some way, with demos being the easiest method for most people here, and streaming being the easiest for others (such as myself).

 

Speaking of which, I just finished my run this evening:

 

Spoiler

Dead at the immediate beginning of Map 16, completely forgetting about starting off with 4 shotgunners all ready to murder me. Skipped the secret maps (because I'm not that stupid), finished Map 15 at 03:32:44. There were some very close calls, particularly during maps 06 and 14, but for the most part it was a very enjoyable experience.

 

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Welp, as expected lol.

 

Cat 1.

Dead at MAP04.

 

Alien Vendetta has a dear place in my heart. It was one of the first megawads I played in my life, as well as one of the first to show me the true ability of mapper to create magnificent pieces, and how a megawad was practically a new game completely free for me in my mind. Certain maps left a long lasting impression on my life as well as shaped the kind of taste I have with WADs. Nemesis and Misri Halek are two maps that perfectly encapsulate the kind of map I adore: visually magnificent, with fierce combat from inch to inch, but above all, the most ominous vibe, with unique moods that exude a feeling that can't be explained in words.

 

Bad thing I suck at Doom, but good thing I love Doom.

 

 

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I did an attempt.  Type 2.  I played the WAD way back when it was released and quite a number of times in the following years, including one continuous journey on HMP.  Haven't played the thing in over 15 years though and the only time I've watched it in the last five was Ancalagon's amazing UV-Max All.  So I don't really remember most of the useful speedrunning shortcuts let alone being able to do them in a live attempt.

 

Bit it in map 6.  Got greedy trying to bait a mancubus and some hellknights into infighting before retreating to search for health while at near death.  Didn't work out the way I wanted to.

 

PrBoom-plus 2.5.1.4 -complevel 2

dwiron_av_cnr.zip

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Dead in map 15 in a very crappy way. :(

 

Cat 2

 

DEMO

 

Legendary wad anyways, I have a favourite for Brad Spencer's tech bases filled with tons of monsters !

 

 

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amazing. rocketed a wall to hurt myself to 10~% then clipped on a wall in the cavern in Map 11 and ate a rev rocket. doh!

 

if only i were a better player. PepeHands

 

but farther than last week soooo progress? 

 

category 2

died around 89~ minutes

 

 

sav.zip

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dwi_pegleg_av_cat1andcat3.zip

 

Here is my Category 1 submission.

 

Dead on Map 01

Kills: 9/48

Time: 2:23

 

Ah, a return to form. After a few months of not having completely horrible blind runs (by my standards, anyway), I returned to my old ways of being completely atrocious. That's the joys (sorrows?) of playing classic mapsets blind, and compounding not knowing what was coming with horrible aim.

 

Here is my Category 3 submission.

 

Dead on Map 02

Kills: 79/106

Time: 11:47

 

I love archviles. There's so much fun at parties. What I saw of Alien Vendetta looked pretty good. It was also fairly fun. The enemy placement was good and the traps were pretty reasonable. I may, at some point, go back and play this on a lower difficulty level.

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