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sectrslayr

Knee Deep Again - New map: E1M3 [revision F]

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Damn! Now THIS is a good map! :D

I love the detailed map locations and using only DooM 1 textures is impressive. Difficulty is fairly balanced (though personally more health might be necessary for the middle areas). The lack of the tankier enemies was both a blessing and a curse, as killing the same 3 enemies did kinda feel a little repetitive after a while (with that being said you only get the chaingun and shotgun anyways so anything above a caco would be tedious). My biggest complaint is trying to remember where I need to go to since I had to backtrack for more health, and I think the biggest flaw is the map loops in on itself a bit too frequently (having only the red  key didn't help).

 

Overall a really well made map. :)

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Pretty good fun, man. Your map layout and design is interesting and I liked the progression. My only complaint is the combat, while not bad by any means, is a little humdrum. Having only Imps and Zombies to do battle with got a little tedious towards the end. Don't be afraid to throw in some Pinkies and Cacoboys for good measure in E1M3 ;^) or even start tinkering with the Doom 2 format so you have even more demons to play with and amp up your combat scenarios. Other than that, this was another solid map.

 

 

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6 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

... My biggest complaint is trying to remember where I need to go to since I had to backtrack for more health, and I think the biggest flaw is the map loops in on itself a bit too frequently (having only the red  key didn't help).

 

5 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

...My only complaint is the combat, while not bad by any means, is a little humdrum. Having only Imps and Zombies to do battle with got a little tedious towards the end. Don't be afraid to throw in some Pinkies and Cacoboys for good measure in E1M3 ;^)

 

Thanks @DynamiteKaitorn and @Biodegradable for playtesting and recording in particular! It's great that I can finally watch others play the map. :)

 

You both spotted the biggest weakness of the Resurgence concept: sticking to the combat type and quoting the look of the replaced maps. I actually violated this already by providing a chaingun in E1M1. :/ This E1M2 replacement would probably support demons very well (dark/tight areas, enough room to maneuver). After all, experienced DooM players do not need monster introduction anymore! ;)

Unfortunately, Doom2 mapping format is out of reach for the moment - until I finally acquire a copy of the IWAD. Also I still have much to learn and practice with Doom1 limitations...

 

I avidly noted possible improvements to include in the next update:

  • distribute more health
  • visually hint the red key path
  • fix some unexpected monster movements that I did not want to happen
  • make some of the 12 secrets more obvious (unless secret hunter @Clippy contradicts ;)
  • allow to return to the radiation suit since it's usage is not immediately obvious
  • bring on the demons!

 

Thank you!

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I love the look of this! Looking forward to playing it!

As someone who is also mapping with Doom 1 limitations I've also been struggling with creating combat situations that keep these seasoned Doom II players interested. I also wanted to preserve monster/item progression, but I've been coming to the conclusion that it might not be necessary to do so.

Love the title, by the way.

I'll probably post a playthrough video, since I've figured out how to do that, now. Let me know if you'd like me to hold off until you've made the changes you're thinking of -- that way I can test them for you!

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2 hours ago, LordEntr0py said:

I love the look of this! Looking forward to playing it!

As someone who is also mapping with Doom 1 limitations I've also been struggling with creating combat situations that keep these seasoned Doom II players interested. I also wanted to preserve monster/item progression, but I've been coming to the conclusion that it might not be necessary to do so.

Love the title, by the way.

I'll probably post a playthrough video, since I've figured out how to do that, now. Let me know if you'd like me to hold off until you've made the changes you're thinking of -- that way I can test them for you!

Thanks @LordEntr0py! I took a lot of extra notes watching @Clippy play. I’ll ping you when I made the changes. Maybe I can make them today... Stay tuned!

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I can already feel @Joshy starting to sweat profundly at the sight of this wads name...

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4 minutes ago, sectrslayr said:

@LordEntr0py Demons (and other stuff) are on. I'm looking forward to your video! ;)

Whaaaaaaaaaa

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Really enjoyed my playthrough of this. Looks very polished, and I only noticed a couple of things which I highlighted in the video -- one was the stimpack "hanging" over the edge of the lift out of the early chaingun secret, and the other was the missing lower textures under the light strips on the walls, in the (secret?) lift that takes you back to the first half of the map.

They didn't detract from what was for me, a fun romp through a large level with all the classic appeal of Knee Deep in the Dead.

I always enjoyed playing Id's original Doom levels more than their Doom 2, and this took me right back there, with it's satisfying secrets, maybe-reachable outdoor areas and cool ambushes.

I was surprised to realise I'd been playing for 40 minutes by the time it ended. That's definitely a good thing.

 

It was fairly easy to play through, but as I said at one point, that was part of the appeal for me. Next time I feel like blazing through KDitD, I might consider blazing through this instead.

 

EDIT: Forgot the video link:

 

 (currently still processing, at time of posting)

 

EDITS:

* I noticed in your profile updates you said there was a room you didn't like. Which was it? I can honestly say nothing stuck out as particularly bad to me.
* It's definitely better for having Demons in it.

Edited by LordEntr0py

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Thanks for this playthrough, @LordEntr0py! It was fun and revealing to watch. I think we have here yet another approach to the map. 'Love to see people spotting the small details. Thanks for pointing out the minor bugs. I will fix them a.s.a.p.

 

7 hours ago, LordEntr0py said:

* I noticed in your profile updates you said there was a room you didn't like. Which was it? I can honestly say nothing stuck out as particularly bad to me.

 

The computer maze. It started out as an experimental sketch and grew from there without a battle plan. There is not really much combat apart from the little trap. It's actually a nice change of pace coming from the outdoor and death trap areas. Interesting that everybody is strafe jumping around the place! I was not able to do it. So there is a dimension of gameplay I could not yet see. ;-)

 

7 hours ago, LordEntr0py said:

* It's definitely better for having Demons in it. 

Honestly, to me it felt like there is not much of a difference. Seems I did not plan for the guys to appear, so they cannot really show off their cornering abilities. But since they are introduced now, I bet in E1M3 they will chew even harder. >:-D

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Yeah, the computer maze was pretty good, I thought. Felt like a unique location, but fully in keeping with style.

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Alright! Outstanding issues resolved and difficulty levels are done. I declare the final release. Next up on my list is E1M3, of course! But this will take some more time, because I have to take a short break from mapping. Otherwise my relationship difficulty setting will spike up to HMP. And we don't want that... Maybe I will post some small experimental maps. I need to ramp up my speedmapping skills after all. ;)

 

Thank you all so much for playing, playtesting and giving feedback! <3 Read you later...

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Oops... turns out that there is a beautiful megawad by the name of “Resurgence”. I should have checked the forums before selecting this name. 
 

To avoid any confusion I will change the name swiftly. Sorry @Biodegradable!

 

Here is the original name bearer by the way: 

 

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Uh, really, bitches? I don’t know. Sounds like the claim that got Romero in trouble back in the days. 

 
I’m looking for something that somehow connects to “Knee Deep in the Dead”. Since the maps are all around resembling that episode 1 vibe. 

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Not very creative here, I went with "Knee deep again" as a working title for this project. This way confusion with Resurgence should not happen anymore.

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Haha, I was mulling over titles like this for an E1 replacement if I did one after Hell's Farthest Shore.

I kinda like your idea of Knee Deep Again for a working title. It contains a promise that the maps deliver.

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I just had a first playthrough of this (UV, no death, but not max...). 

 

It's really good! It's definitely classic Doom1 stuff. I noticed that quite a few of the set pieces seemed familiar... Looks like you took ideas from various other maps - that's no bad thing as they are very well done. I particularly like the platform maze. 

 

Yeah, it just felt like an excellent level that fits really well with the theme. 

 

It's probably considered on the easy side - but that's no bad thing. I'm certainly not a skilled player and I definitely get much more out of a map that doesn't kick my arse.

 

Time to dig out your first one...

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13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

I just had a first playthrough of this (UV, no death, but not max...). 

Thanks @smeghammer! I'm glad you had fun with the map. I'd love to see you playing through...

 

13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

 

It's really good! It's definitely classic Doom1 stuff. I noticed that quite a few of the set pieces seemed familiar... Looks like you took ideas from various other maps - that's no bad thing as they are very well done. I particularly like the platform maze. 

It was the goal to recreate the classic episode style. Limiting myself to more basic things also helps with re-learning how to map with SLADE.

I tried to identify distinctive set pieces and textures of the original levels and freestyle with the elements to make it feel like back in the nineties. I just love the episode 1 esthetics...

 

13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

 

Yeah, it just felt like an excellent level that fits really well with the theme. 

 

It's probably considered on the easy side - but that's no bad thing. I'm certainly not a skilled player and I definitely get much more out of a map that doesn't kick my arse.

That was actually not my goal. I wanted to raise the difficulty quite a bit. But then again, skill levels have gone up too. Nowadays players frequently bumping around Archviles while dispatching a horde of Cyberdemons. Seems like Zombies and Imps are no match anymore. ;)

 

13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

 

Time to dig out your first one...

Have fun and comment!

 

 

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Right, so I decided to give this map a shot, and I had a good 'ol time with it! Classic E1 layout & texturing, surprisingly engaging inicdental combat and simple yet satisfying secrets make this a relaxing map to max. I look forward to seeing your interpretations of the rest of E1, and beyond!

 

did find one small bug: lines 10 and 14 are tag 0 switches, which work fine in (G)ZDoom, but royally cock up the map when using less advanced ports (like my port-of-choice, Crispy Doom).

 

Additionally, I have one minor piece of criticism: there is decidedly too much DOORTRAK in this map for my liking, mostly used in lift shafts. SUPPORT2 is much better for this purpose.

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1 hour ago, Omniarch said:

too much DOORTRAK

DOORTRAK is king!

unknown.png

 

Huh. I retextured an old map as a joke for this but now I'm looking at it I admit I kinda like it.

 

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3 minutes ago, LordEntr0py said:

Obscenity

*Incoherent screeching*

 

Also, that's a pretty high-effort joke right there. Either that or there's something I don't know about the find and replace tool...

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16 minutes ago, LordEntr0py said:

DOORTRAK

 

That doesn't look that bad

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

*Incoherent screeching*

 

Also, that's a pretty high-effort joke right there. Either that or there's something I don't know about the find and replace tool...

Select all linedefs, shift +1 to select 1-sided only from that selection, set the mid textures to DOORTRAK.

 

Shift+2 selects 2-sided only. Change Upper and lower textures on both sides of all those. I think those are default bindings. If not they are configurable.

 

Well worth going through the UDB functions.

 

Anyway, not wanting to derail this thread any further with my shitpost:

 

TO anyone just visiting this thread, make sure you check out @sectrslayr's level. Any personal DOORTRAK quibbles aside, I think we all agree it's a top-notch example of classic Doom goodness.

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