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Joshy

Plutonia Revisited: Community Project 2 (Boom-compatible)- RC1 Released!

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1 hour ago, DukeOfDoom said:

 

Ahem.

Yeah, well, I didn't see it when I started working on it. Is it fine to use the normal Plutonia textures?

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14 hours ago, Joshy said:

Try not to make large maps. It’s understandable that people are inclined to churn out their large magnum opus in community projects but we’d like for most maps to not be big, save for a few. Try for maps with less than 200 monsters if possible.


I'm glad about this little detail in the rules. I'm not exactly a fan of Plutonia, but the one appealing thing about it for me is that all the maps are relatively small, which is something most of these Plutonia sequels forget about, and it was especially the case for PRCP.
And I have some ideas for MAP31 that I could try to churn out in the next couple days.

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2 hours ago, franckFRAG said:

But once again, I'm annoyed that this project is in boom compatible.

Same here, I'd have been glad to contribute but IMHO going for something other than vanilla format isn't the proper way to go as regards to Plutonia sequels (particularly when you name them Plutonia 3 / PRCP 2).

Still, obviously, a new Plutonia-themed megawad being worked on is great news no matter what, so good luck !

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Forcing my hand on this one, arent we...

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3 hours ago, franckFRAG said:

But once again, I'm annoyed that this project is in boom compatible.

Boom compatible means it must run vanilla and LR maps without gameplay changes and the only bad thing about Boom I know is the ghost monster bug fix but I can barely find a guy who is going to exploit this bug. Boom just lets you make more things that you could have done within LR limitations. I mean e.g. more linedef actions. Boom (1998) runs in DOS at least on i486 (works as charm on i686) and is not much slower than vanilla or LR, and it still plays and feels like vanilla.

Imho, Boom's time has come

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Glad to see some interests! Just to clarify a few things:

  • You don't have to sign up, all you have to do is submit your map and I'll put it on the list! Post your map in this thread and you'll get your feedback here.
  • No rules regarding Midis, you can make or pick your own or have someone else pick it. If a bunch of Doomworld musicians want to create a completely new soundtrack, that's not a problem! It's not a priority either way.
  • Use the Plutonia iwad and the texture pack but you don't have to use new textures, original textures are perfectly fine!
  • Will there be a bonus Map33? No idea, we'll see how the project takes shape over time and make decisions based on that.

Any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

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This is exciting news - I really like that Plutonic aesthetic of wooden beams and stone bricks, and even if modern maps inevitably leave the original IWAD's brevity & focus behind to become sprawling baroque masterpieces, I'm looking forward to journeying through them regardless.

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8 hours ago, franckFRAG said:

I was not satisfied with my map for PRCP (Rules of Death), so why not catch up with PRCP2... But once again, I'm annoyed that this project is in boom compatible. However, I have a challenging Plutonia map in limit-removing format, almost finished, sleeping in my SSD. maybe I should finish it, and submit it to you.

 

I'm sure you are allowed to make a limit removing map no problems.

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21 hours ago, Joshy said:

No slots are to be reserved for anyone. If you want to make a map for map07 for example, be sure to name that your map is specifically for map07 but there is no guarantee it will be included in the final product. 

How will map slots with distinctly different gameplay in previous projects, such as 11, 29, and 32, be handled then? I'd be interested in making a Go 2 It style map, but that would be unlikely to fit anywhere else in the project.

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@Joshy Looking through the texture pack, I noticed you 're using the 8-high versions of the Plutonia bricks, but the 6-high version of TVBLOOD1 from PL2.

FYI: I made and posted an 8-high version early in the texture thread, if you wanted to use it to match the others.

WW1tKh0.png

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Know what, replaying all the Plutonias and emulating the style is a good project. I'll probably contribute to this!

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1 hour ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

@Joshy Looking through the texture pack, I noticed you 're using the 8-high versions of the Plutonia bricks, but the 6-high version of TVBLOOD1 from PL2.

FYI: I made and posted an 8-high version early in the texture thread, if you wanted to use it to match the others.

lol I showed these bricks to t.v. around a year ago and he said that I may use it if I want but not to replace the 6-high TVBLOOD1 in the pack.

 

The change of the small font leads to need of a new CRORANGE translation table to easily navigate in Boom/PrBoom+/Eternity menus.

I've made one https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv5vkrqh6c36tb5/CRORANGE.lmp?dl=1

Before.png

 

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3 hours ago, AtticTelephone said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/qxbrxoyibbtigu2/fleshandbones.wad/file
Screenshots:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

TrPxMMU.png

EovBCvt.png

1idqsQt.png

gWPCCNT.png

 

A short map I made called "Flesh and Bones". I think it's fine enough for the project, maybe somewhere in MAP03 or MAP09, but I wanted to make something a little more impressive, maybe I'll make a better map tommorow.

 

A bit of criticism from the mapper who worked on two Plutonia-style megawads:
1) We have to find 3 keys in order and open the final passage. This is a too overused and linear scenario. Ambushes in every location are too repetitive.
2) An ambush of 2 arch-viles is already overkill. Moreover, there is not much room for maneuvering. Better use more space and obstacles or remove 1 arch-vile.
3) It is possible to add more windows and optional connections between locations that contain decorative objects. We're not in the 128kb limit project, are we?
4) IMHO the map is rather short and simple, and for the most part resembles the plain design with few rocky splashes. As John Romero advised: Always change floor height when changing floor textures. Nobody likes the basic square rooms with homogeneous ceiling heights. Varying floor and ceiling heights for different rooms are more pleasing to the eye.

5) It is probably reasonable to copy-paste the final pedestal to the starting place, as used in Plutonia maps.

6) Think about a name for the map. Over the years, I've probably seen three maps with this name! If there are no ideas, I can suggest a web-based neural network. Just enter the names of different Plutonia maps (and not only) in a column and it will give you something interesting. Even ideas for a map.
7) Combining the results above, I would recommend updating this map and taking your time.
8) Of the interesting things, I can note the simulated water depth. Take advantage of Boom's capabilities.

 

Good luck, I hope you find it useful this and next time!

 

 

20 minutes ago, SilverMiner said:

The change of the small font leads to need of a new CRORANGE translation table to easily navigate in Boom/PrBoom+/Eternity menus.

I've made one https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv5vkrqh6c36tb5/CRORANGE.lmp?dl=1

Before.png

 

This is exactly what I wanted to mention yesterday!

 

Edited by riderr3

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50 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

 

A bit of criticism from the mapper who worked on two Plutonia-style megawads:
1) We have to find 3 keys in order and open the final passage. This is a too overused and linear scenario. Ambushes in every location are too repetitive.
2) An ambush of 2 arch-viles is already overkill. Moreover, there is not much room for maneuvering. Better use more space and obstacles or remove 1 arch-vile.
3) It is possible to add more windows and optional connections between locations that contain decorative objects. We're not in the 128kb limit project, are we?
4) IMHO the map is rather short and simple, and for the most part resembles the plain design with few rocky splashes. As John Romero advised: Always change floor height when changing floor textures. Nobody likes the basic square rooms with homogeneous ceiling heights. Varying floor and ceiling heights for different rooms are more pleasing to the eye.

5) It is probably reasonable to copy-paste the final pedestal to the starting place, as used in Plutonia maps.

6) Think about a name for the map. Over the years, I've probably seen three maps with this name! If there are no ideas, I can suggest a web-based neural network. Just enter the names of different Plutonia maps (and not only) in a column and it will give you something interesting. Even ideas for a map.
7) Combining the results above, I would recommend updating this map and taking your time.
8) Of the interesting things, I can note the simulated water depth. Take advantage of Boom's capabilities.

 

Good luck, I hope you find it useful this and next time!

Yeah, reworking the Double Archvile fight is not going to happen right now because I'm tired and I worked on this map all day, but I'll probably see what I can do some time, maybe I'll make the area a lot less cramped, might even make the shotgunner complex larger. I'll see what I can do.

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4 hours ago, AtticTelephone said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/qxbrxoyibbtigu2/fleshandbones.wad/file
Screenshots:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

TrPxMMU.png

EovBCvt.png

1idqsQt.png

gWPCCNT.png

 

A short map I made called "Flesh and Bones". I think it's fine enough for the project, maybe somewhere in MAP03 or MAP09, but I wanted to make something a little more impressive, maybe I'll make a better map tommorow.

 

I'd listen to @riderr3, they came up with good advice.

 

I think you have the mapping basics done right but this map is too simple as it is. The layout is very linear and the gameplay is unbalanced. There isn't any health and armor which makes it unfun to play. The gameplay is also very frontloaded (everything happening in front of you). Have another go at making something a bit more complex. :)

 

Some things to think about re: Plutonia maps, they work really well because monsters are used very intelligently, they don't just pop up in front of you, there are also wandering monsters, snipers, teleported monsters, sleeping monsters waiting around the corner, fat monsters distracting you while deadly monsters try to take a shot at you, you name it. Layouts are frequently like a web weaved together with clever use of space rather than a hub or strand of strings with the occasional diversion. The architecture and texture design is simple but effective. A huge variation in floors and ceilings combined with interesting shapes makes the difference, they give you a nice sense of place and it still looks relatively interesting. Good luck!

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11 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

Boom compatible means it must run vanilla and LR maps without gameplay changes and the only bad thing about Boom I know is the ghost monster bug fix but I can barely find a guy who is going to exploit this bug. Boom just lets you make more things that you could have done within LR limitations. I mean e.g. more linedef actions. Boom (1998) runs in DOS at least on i486 (works as charm on i686) and is not much slower than vanilla or LR, and it still plays and feels like vanilla.

Imho, Boom's time has come

I very much agree, I respect people who are willing and capable of making really good stuff for Vanilla or Limit Removing, but at the same time, Boom makes my life a million times easier, and lets me do just a little bit more stuff without going off into GzDoom territory.

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Nice! Why don't you make a discord server specifically for this project ? I think it would be much more easier to coordinate this if everyone could communicate with each other easily. Just a thought though...

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