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Joshy

Plutonia Revisited: Community Project 2 (Boom-compatible)

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11 hours ago, Roofi said:

I really think this project would be a lot better on vanilla compatiblity instead of Boom. 

Pff, Ok boomer

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3 hours ago, Joshy said:

Initially the reason for PL3 going Boom is that there are plenty of released vanilla Plutonia projects and FDTWID is already being worked on. So for a new modern Plutonia project, it makes sense to come up with something new to diverge from what's been done numerous times already. Why not imagine the possibilities and potential of Plutonic maps without vanilla limitations?

I recall an interesting discussion with K!r4, who contributed to both Plutonia 2 and PRCP, about the legitimacy of Plutonia 2's name. Some people in the Pl2 team advised for dropping the "unofficial sequel" name back then, even though they were making a vanilla-compatible wad and even though they had a solid team which could produce a wad worthy of the title.

Now, the problem here is not the Boom format per se. It would indeed be awesome to have Plutonia-styled maps that benefit from Boom's extended capabilities (heck, I've made one myself a couple years ten years ago). Bigger, prettier and all.
No, the problem is that you're giving this project the Plutonia 3 name, and in doing so, you're somehow imposing the shift to Boom format on the Plutonia saga (in an unofficial way, of course). It's quite an audacious move, particularly on a well-known and highly respected series such as Plutonia.
Calling your project "Plutonia 3" is a double-edged sword, I'm sure you understand that.

What about changing the name to something like "Plutonia Evolved", "Plutonia Extended" etc. ?
You could then keep the intended scope of your two projects, i.e. expanding on the classic Plutonia recipe with Boom features, without having nazi vanilla purists cursing your name every single day.
Funny thing is that in the PRCP text file, you said that you "won't call it plutonia3, better stop beating up the dead horse of sequels". That was a wise decision and you should listen to your younger self :)

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6 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

My first submission for a community project!

It's a map called "escape from Casali's castle". It's pretty short, but gets a little bit slaughter-ish towards the end.

Hopefully it will be fun!

Track used: Evil Incarcerated remixed by James Paddock

escapef.rar

 

Quick thoughts after first 2-3 plays

 

1 As a riderr said this 3 keys switch can be activated by only 1 key, and of course skipping whole level.

 

2 At the start room i think better idea is using normal shotgun and use less enemies/weaker enemies + some shotgun ammo

 

3 Cave areas looks pretty clean and was fun to play, just like as first tech-plutonia rooms

 

4. There are bugged hell knights in the last area - they got teleported into wall and they cant shoot

 

5 Overall difficulty is bit harder plutonia (thats nice)

 

6. Decorations was pretty good and i think your map made it (just fix some bugs and you done :D)

 

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3 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

Pff, Ok boomer

You probably don’t realize that vanilla constraints generate a lot of creativity. But it's another subject.

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To develop my previous remark. I think the vanilla format helps to keep an " Iwad feeling". It's very subjective indeed but PRCP and PL2 were designed for vanilla afterall.

 

Also , I believe it helps to keep a certain homogeneity among maps because even best mappers can't create really detailed places for instance or very complex effects due to the lack of conveyor (there is the scroll trick using the mikoportal but it's pretty clunky)

 

Vanilla limitations force you to concentrate yourself on the most importants parts : flow , gameplay , layout...

 

Cool project anyway , I will maybe try to submit something. :)

 

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escape.wad:

Definitely not a good starting room, even for the experienced players. Agreeing mostly with riderr with regards to all the rest overall, especially with monster count too. Also the cage area you shouldn't use the MIDGRATE textures like that since they don't look right as regular walls (there is a way to make them show enemies but you can't shoot them yet I forgot what it was). Cacos and pain elementals weren't able to teleport into the three-key switch room. Final battle was very easy and a few hell knights got stuck on the metal rim when they teleported in.

On HMP I actually had to escape the starting room and it took several tries, the UV puts in two arachnotrons to two of the corners, the SW being most vital to escape so it's nearly impossible, plus an archie inside also is more or less undodgeable so you try to get it to infight while trying to escape it I guess (edit: looks like newer version removed the starting arch-vile and fixed the stuck hell knight issue, but the cacos/PEs couldn't teleport into the main area).

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3 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said:

escape.wad:

Definitely not a good starting room, even for the experienced players. Agreeing mostly with riderr with regards to all the rest overall, especially with monster count too. Also the cage area you shouldn't use the MIDGRATE textures like that since they don't look right as regular walls (there is a way to make them show enemies but you can't shoot them yet I forgot what it was). Cacos and pain elementals weren't able to teleport into the three-key switch room. Final battle was very easy and a few hell knights got stuck on the metal rim when they teleported in.

On HMP I actually had to escape the starting room and it took several tries, the UV puts in two arachnotrons to two of the corners, the SW being most vital to escape so it's nearly impossible, plus an archie inside also is more or less undodgeable so you try to get it to infight while trying to escape it I guess (edit: looks like newer version removed the starting arch-vile and fixed the stuck hell knight issue, but the cacos/PEs couldn't teleport into the main area).

escapex.rar

I deleted the cyberdemon that was intentionally placed to lower the difficulty, and add a few HKs to block the revenants.

To be honest, I don't really know how to deal with the high body count. Maybe just ignore it and put the map into episode 3.

Also, I don't know how to fix the MIDGRATE problem, either. I probably won't fix it until I figure out how to do it.

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3 hours ago, franckFRAG said:

You probably don’t realize that vanilla constraints generate a lot of creativity.

Wrong statement. If you were right, I'd not be mapping for Doom at all lol and ended up somewhere in UE4

The limits of the Doom engine inspire me to make something for it

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4 hours ago, franckFRAG said:

You probably don’t realize that vanilla constraints generate a lot of creativity. But it's another subject.

For me, BOOM just expands on things already present in the vanilla engine. The only additions I can think of that makes it feel "not vanilla" is scrolling floors, translucency, wind & friction. The rest is just (imo) a more robust set of vanilla features. In vanilla, yes, you do have to be more creative with your implementation, but the player likely won't notice and often times it's just more convoluted with the same end result. This might appeal to you as a mapper, making the vanilla features do things that it wasn't initially meant to do and finding creative solutions when the idea you had in mind isn't traditionally possible in vanilla. As far as gameplay goes, the added features in BOOM (particularly the fine-tuning of sector manipulation) can help the designer refine gameplay, without straying too far from vanilla. Vanilla can sometimes actually distract from developing gameplay, just trying to get the feature you're trying to implement working.

At the end of the day, that's just my two cents, and a lot of this is subjective. If we wanted a vanilla feel, I'd be for restricting certain features, but I think the move to BOOM will at the end of the day produce more fun/engaging maps.

 

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6 hours ago, WH-Wilou84 said:

What about changing the name to something like "Plutonia Evolved", "Plutonia Extended" etc. ?

"Plutonia Forever"? :P

 

I know the decision was made to cope with Plutonia 3 being a Boom project, but still, it's a little bit sad that ghost monsters are out of the question, because it could be a surprise when one of 32 maps uses it or whatnot. Personally, I really hope Boom format doesn't result in huge maps that stretches things to way too long compared to other maps.

 

One problem I had with PRCP is some of the maps are way too long to be "Plutonia" as Plutonia is always kind of short and sweet type of maps. Of course, the longer maps in PRCP look very nice, but it's just not very Plutonia.

 

Anyway, still, good luck with the project. I'm looking forward to this and Plutonia 3.

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29 minutes ago, Doomlust said:

Probably a final version...

 

- Minor corrections

- More enemies

- Additional battle with cacos 

 

arachnocore_map31.rar

I like the idea of using invisibility sphere to cause spiders to hit each other and cause possible infighting and also the idea of raising up the water gradually when the spiders are being downed. At last the map is not about Cyberdemons yay

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Would've been funnier if you had posted this thread on April 1 xD

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After some tests I made some changes...

 

- SSs are more accessible at the beginning

- added some more health (I believe there are no more problems related to lack of health)

 

arachnocore_map31.rar

 

Waiting for other feedbacks.

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I seriously want to make a real map for this project, or maybe a few, but the only problem is that my maps don't seem to be good enough for reasons I don't understand, I mean, about all Plutonia maps have small hallways and doors connecting each room, so I have no idea how that's a problem, should I use more teleporters and have rooms be platforms or something? I don't really get it. Also, the sound blocking linedefs in my map (for example, the shotgunner pool) are basically there just to somewhat immerse the player. I'm not really sure if I can make a map for this, or even make a map and release it, because although I think my maps are pretty good, for some reason there's always some complaint about something in my map that somehow didn't occur to me and I don't ever realize the problem. What am I supposed to do?

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1 hour ago, AtticTelephone said:

because although I think my maps are pretty good

 

some complaint about something in my map that somehow didn't occur to me and I don't ever realize the problem

 

When you find connections and contradictions between these two points, you will be able to break through your "mapping block" and see the situation both from your side and from the side of others. It is not enough to know only the technical aspects of the issue. I've only come to this over the years.

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22 hours ago, WH-Wilou84 said:

I recall an interesting discussion with K!r4, who contributed to both Plutonia 2 and PRCP, about the legitimacy of Plutonia 2's name. Some people in the Pl2 team advised for dropping the "unofficial sequel" name back then, even though they were making a vanilla-compatible wad and even though they had a solid team which could produce a wad worthy of the title.

Now, the problem here is not the Boom format per se. It would indeed be awesome to have Plutonia-styled maps that benefit from Boom's extended capabilities (heck, I've made one myself a couple years ten years ago). Bigger, prettier and all.
No, the problem is that you're giving this project the Plutonia 3 name, and in doing so, you're somehow imposing the shift to Boom format on the Plutonia saga (in an unofficial way, of course). It's quite an audacious move, particularly on a well-known and highly respected series such as Plutonia.
Calling your project "Plutonia 3" is a double-edged sword, I'm sure you understand that.

What about changing the name to something like "Plutonia Evolved", "Plutonia Extended" etc. ?
You could then keep the intended scope of your two projects, i.e. expanding on the classic Plutonia recipe with Boom features, without having nazi vanilla purists cursing your name every single day.
Funny thing is that in the PRCP text file, you said that you "won't call it plutonia3, better stop beating up the dead horse of sequels". That was a wise decision and you should listen to your younger self :)

Ahh okay that makes sense now. So there's two arguments being made here that seems to have muddled up, one is about the Plutonia sequel name being used, and the other is regarding the 'purity' association between vanilla and Plutonia. There are gains to be made with using vanilla, such as having to improvise and make adjustments in terms of structure and layouts, that is for sure, but it is also a good time for a Boom megawad to add to the mix. Regarding name usage, I think that's a fair argument, my younger self would agree with you back then. Coming up with Plutonia 3 then would have been an act of arrogance on my part, especially when PL2 was released only several years before that, and I was not a 'veteran member' of the community. Over time, I've come to appreciate the value and feeling of legacy, especially from megawads, and it just felt like the right move to make more than 10 years later to resort to using the 'Plutonia 3' title. In fact, it has been a great motivator to ensure that the megawad is excellent in order to honour and justify that title, as is evident in us taking our time and having to reject a few maps (including some of mine). Also, if one wanted to be pedantic, the original title was 'The Plutonia Experiment' so that's a good loophole as any! :P 

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2 hours ago, AtticTelephone said:

I seriously want to make a real map for this project, or maybe a few, but the only problem is that my maps don't seem to be good enough for reasons I don't understand, I mean, about all Plutonia maps have small hallways and doors connecting each room, so I have no idea how that's a problem, should I use more teleporters and have rooms be platforms or something? I don't really get it. Also, the sound blocking linedefs in my map (for example, the shotgunner pool) are basically there just to somewhat immerse the player. I'm not really sure if I can make a map for this, or even make a map and release it, because although I think my maps are pretty good, for some reason there's always some complaint about something in my map that somehow didn't occur to me and I don't ever realize the problem. What am I supposed to do?

What riderr3 said is right. What I'd advise you to do is to just keep trying and practicing but also keep playing all the great megawads. There's a reason why they're well received, even some of the old ones. I'd recommend a look at Scythe 1 and Jimmy's Deathless, and start to compare and contrast what the differences are between your maps and theirs, and learn from them. I've mapped since 2005 so it's not a skill that will just easily develop overnight. Keep it up! :)

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Just seeing Joshy's name as the project leader/coordinator makes me a whole lot excited, I'm sure the quality assurance will be high. Just wanted to say goodluck with the project, I look forward to some great Plutonia-style maps. Can't get enough of those!

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Sting Operation:

Pretty fun map overall, layout is decent. I came up with several strategies when I played this multiple times, one of which is to get a lucky SSG shot at the switch near the YK door to raise the bridge (this helps in getting one secret rather early too :D). Behind the red door is a rocket launcher trap but it looks like the trap only happens when you get the rocket launcher and probably should be when you enter the area instead since you could technically fall in one of the holes there on lower settings (linedef 254 is a good place to make the pop-up chaingunner holes go up). Also the soulsphere secret behind there is kinda awkward as a walkthru wall when you look at it from certain angles. Not a fan of pop-up archie(s) right at the end either, but otherwise an interesting map. Weird tidbit I noticed, but the demons that are things 111 and 112 are only flagged for ITYTD/HNTR and 113 and 114 flagged for only ITYTD/HNTR/HMP, so none appear on UV/NM. There's also a random box of shotgun shells (thing 279) outside the map boundaries.

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Cool, glad you enjoyed it.  I thought of the RL trap, but it seems like you can trigger it without jumping down if you make the line entering the area the trigger.  I'll figure something out.  The random box of shells I probably just fat fingered, that will be deleted.  Yes, I know you can raise the bridge early, I'm going to leave it as it creates interesting gameplay IMO.  The demons I think I must have made an oopsie, I meant for 2 to be on ITYTD/HNTR, 4 on HMP, and all 6 on UV/NM.  

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Is there a definite rule or consensus on damaging liquids? Plutonia was pretty inconsistent (damaging water, nondamaging slime)

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15 hours ago, Cheesewheel said:

Submitting for consideration Ironclad - inspired by The Twilight, replaces MAP15. Only have it tuned for UV atm.

 

Ironclad.zip

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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DOOM0026.png

Very wonderful map.

But hey, did you just forget to place a secret exit?

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15 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

Very wonderful map.

But hey, did you just forget to place a secret exit?

 

Yeah guess I did! :)

 

I didn't know if the map number is decided for me and if maps could get shifted around so I left the exit out until I know for certain what map it replaces.

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Okay, so I thought I will whip up something quick and short. 

Map name - Oceania

 

PRCPCB2.png        PRCPCB1.png

 

It should be suitable for an early E1 slot (If of course the map is up to scratch of course). Just a couple of tricky fights. The map was built to vanilla standards originally and I didn't see the need to go to town on the visuals too much. 

Difficulty settings have been applied, as well as co-op starts (Nothing else yet for this).

 

Oceania.zip

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I'll give it a go, I don't know which episode I'm going to put my map is, but it's not going to be a remake of a map, it's going to be my own idea.. so count me in..

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