How would you rate Doom 64 mapset against vanilla ones?

[Kloki38]

I personally don´t like D64. The maps are very weak in comparison with the rest of the series - small, tons of cramped hallways and almost no details.  I would give it approx. 4/10.

[MajorRawne]

I don't like any aspect of Doom 64 except its music and sound effects. It was a huge visual step back IMO, the FPS equivalent of X-COM Apocalypse graphics, without the ferociously addictive Apocalypse gameplay.

 

All the personality was engineered out of the gameplay.

[Doomkid]

I'm torn on Doom64. To be clear, I love Doom64, but it becomes a lot harder when you ask me to rank it next to Doom 1 and Doom 2. Doom64 is very "visually samey" by comparsion, everything is dark and gloomy and the music, while great at being moody, isn't 1/1000th as "ear-wormy" as the default Doom and even Doom 2 MIDIs.

 

Obviously it very much is its own campaign, but it feels like it bridges the gap between Doom 2 and Doom 3 almost perfectly. But said bridge is between Doom1/2 which I love til the end of time, and Doom3, which I like and have nostalgia for, but view as a fundamentally flawed game.

 

So basically it got moodier and darker and had some cool sprites which was cool, but it was marred by being slower, boxier and far less "wow-ing" in terms of level size and height and such. Couple that with the missing monsters, and it feels like a big step down from Doom 2, even with the extra visual flare and theming considered.

 

...Any oldschool Castlevania fans here? It kinda felt like how Castlevania 4 gave you this amazing range of motion and game feel compared to the first 3 - and then Castlevania Dracula X took it all back.. (but was still a damn good game despite that). In this comparison, Doom 64 is to the Doom series as Drac X is to the Castlevania series (SOTN and before anyway, the stuff I love.)

[whybmonotacrab]

Echoing a lot of other people: D64 does hell better than any other Doom game. I think some of the techbase levels are a bit of a slog, and progression is sometimes a little too obscure, but this game is dripping with atmosphere and has some really inventive moments. I really wish the full enemy roster was in the game though.

 

7 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

(SOTN and before anyway, the stuff I love.)

 

Hold up, do you not like Aria of Sorrow? It's leaps and bounds above SOTN. Also Rondo of Blood >>>>>> Castlevania IV.

[Doomkid]

It's not that I dislike the later Castlevanila games - hell, I haven't even played Aria of Sorrow (but probably will now that you've recommended it to me directly). I just kinda fell off the wagon, there's only so many hours in a day I can devote to gaming stuff, and 90% of that goes into Doom/modding/YT making/compiling stuff. I didn't mean it as a slight against the newer ones but now reading it, it totally seems like it was.

 

I only had/have the SNES versions of IV and Rondo/Drac X, and while I love both, IV still comes out on top for me. I've heard and respect the argument that Rondo (not to mention the very first CV) are better overall due to being "tighter" experiences that really do require more skill overall.. and I love them! ...But whip go spinny spin and man change direction in mid air!!

[Xeogred]

I think I like Rondo, Super CV4, and Bloodlines all equally for their own strengths. That said I don't care for Dracula X SNES much, definitely feels like a big step backwards from Super CV4 for sure. Kind of crazy it came out 3 years later but feels more dated.

[whybmonotacrab]

10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

 

I only had/have the SNES versions of IV and Rondo/Drac X, and while I love both, IV still comes out on top for me. I've heard and respect the argument that Rondo (not to mention the very first CV) are better overall due to being "tighter" experiences that really do require more skill overall.. and I love them! ...But whip go spinny spin and man change direction in mid air!!

Tons of off topic stuff about Castlevania:

Spoiler

 

Well you're in luck on the Aria front. Looks like a GBA Castlevania collection is coming soon! 

I've never played the SNES version of DracX but I've heard it was a much weaker version of the game. I played the original on Vita and loved it. It's really hard, but then again most of the games I love are for some dumb reason. It also has some of the most gorgeous pixel art I've seen, and there 100% aren't enough 32 bit pixel art games.

 

 I'm the opposite of Xeograd. I played all of these back to back for a podcast back in 2014. I'd only played the post SOTN games before then. I found IV to be somewhat dated because to me it felt like a tech demo in places, where they put more effort into wowing you with tech than designing a good level. That said, I was a lot more of a bitter douche back in 2014 so maybe I should replay it and see if that opinion holds up. Just felt like a step back after 3, though it could have been everyone telling me it was the greatest thing ever and it just ending up being merely a "pretty good Castlevania game" that made me feel disappointed.

 

 You are right though, Spinny whip = greatest invention in gaming.

Also couldn't work out how to spoiler the tag so the response relates to that. To get the topic back on track though, I will say that if you've only played the first few levels of Doom 64, it may be a bit of a letdown. The atmosphere is there, but the game doesn't start getting good until the second third of the game. It goes from being more of an atmospheric title with incidental combat to something closer to Plutonia lite (though much, much easier) in how it sets up traps - though there are a lot more environmental traps. Personally, I'd love to see more custom content for it, though there are already some pretty solid ones out there.

[MajorRawne]

7 hours ago, whybmonotacrab said:

To get the topic back on track though, I will say that if you've only played the first few levels of Doom 64, it may be a bit of a letdown. The atmosphere is there, but the game doesn't start getting good until the second third of the game. It goes from being more of an atmospheric title with incidental combat to something closer to Plutonia lite (though much, much easier) in how it sets up traps - though there are a lot more environmental traps. Personally, I'd love to see more custom content for it, though there are already some pretty solid ones out there.

 

That's good news, I never get far even with determined effort. I'll skip ahead to map 20 and see if things liven up. EDIT: I can't count, will skip to map 10.

 

Innocence X is kind of Doom 64ish.

[out_of_service]

On 6/30/2021 at 12:45 PM, Doomkid said:

I'm torn on Doom64. To be clear, I love Doom64, but it becomes a lot harder when you ask me to rank it next to Doom 1 and Doom 2. Doom64 is very "visually samey" by comparsion, everything is dark and gloomy and the music, while great at being moody, isn't 1/1000th as "ear-wormy" as the default Doom and even Doom 2 MIDIs.

 

Obviously it very much is its own campaign, but it feels like it bridges the gap between Doom 2 and Doom 3 almost perfectly. But said bridge is between Doom1/2 which I love til the end of time, and Doom3, which I like and have nostalgia for, but view as a fundamentally flawed game.

 

So basically it got moodier and darker and had some cool sprites which was cool, but it was marred by being slower, boxier and far less "wow-ing" in terms of level size and height and such. Couple that with the missing monsters, and it feels like a big step down from Doom 2, even with the extra visual flare and theming considered.

 

For me Doom 64's dark and brooding themes appeal to my senses. I think Doom 64 is a natural progression of the PSX Doom titles mixed with Quake's DNA. The developers wanted to capture that action shooter merged with Lovecraftian cosmic horror. Which is interesting, I've been a rabid fan of Lovecraft for just as long as I have been of the Doom franchise. The 90's was a very interesting time for me. I grew up on horror literature, movies, and most of all games lol.  The crazy ultra violence of Doom, Doom II, and Final Doom was really something else with all that satanic imagery.

 

Then in 1997 Doom 64 came out.

 

I remember testing the waters at a video game/paintball store where they would let you play a game for a set amount of time before deciding to buy it. I was hooked. Just like I was hooked on the original Doom in 1993. To me Doom 64 was like - oh you thought my predecessors were evil? You ain't seen nothing yet bub.

 

The game was VERY dark. Doom 3 dark. The clunky N64 controller sat in my shaking hands. The haunting soundtrack of Aubrey Hodges sent up and down my spine. Like bony fingers scratching my back. I had just dispatched several former humans with a pump action shotgun that I recently acquired after hopping off a platform. A hidden hatch opened behind me and a throaty gurgling noise emitted from the shadows. Like a beast of some kind had just gargled with rocks and mud. I spin around to see a looming massive shape shambling towards to me. Iron black horns, leathery skin the colour of poorly healed scar tissue, beady red eyes and a gaping mouth full of teeth. A demon! One shotgun blast. The damned thing didn't flinch A second shotgun blast. It howled with rage and hunger A third shotgun blast splits it's damned head open. It snarled and hit the cold metal floor of the forgotten Phobos relay station.

 

"This game is on a NINTENDO CONSOLE? U gotta be shitting me lol."

 

"Times up fella!"

 

"TAKE MY MONEY" I said.

 

So, Doom 64.

 

The best maps of Doom 64, IMHO are as follows:

 

Spoiler

 

Staging Area

The Terraformer

Holding Area

Alpha Quadrant

Altar of Pain

Dark Citadel

Blood Keep

Watch Your Step

Spawned Fear

In The Void

Breakdown

Pitfalls

Burnt Offerings

Unholy Temple

 

I enjoy them just as much and in some cases, more than the "vanilla maps".

 

It's true that Doom 64 is visually samey, I think that mostly applies to the space station maps, though. And they can be bit of a slog, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel that way about Plutonia and I still enjoy the hell out of it! Where Doom 64 really comes into it's own are the hell levels. I think Doom 64 has the best interpretation of hell in any of the Doom games! Cruel traps with homing rockets and arrows. Monsters materializing out of thin air right behind you. Crushers galore! I love all of that. The world wants to kill you just as much as the demons! Meaning you need to be alert and on your toes all the time. No jingling and jangling with loose change in your pockets! GET GOING MARINE.

 

I definitely get the criticisms of Doom 64, and I totally understand it's not everyone's bag of chips. As a Doom fanboy, I can tell you, that ALL of the games have flaws. Nothing is perfect. Unruly Evil? Nirvana? Chasm? Habitat? D_Runnin? That never once stopped me from enjoying the games.

 

Doom 64 is the black sheep of the Doom family, I get that, but that takes nothing away from it for me. And it's nice to see that people these days recognize that it's amazing. Absolution, Ex, Retribution, Nightdive and so fourth.

Edited July 4, 2021 by PSXDoomer

[[McD] James]

I always thought Doom 3 was the black sheep in the series. 

[out_of_service]

22 minutes ago, [McD]James said:

I always thought Doom 3 was the black sheep in the series. 

I didn’t know you played any of the Doom games! Most of your posts are related to fast food and rap music lol.

[Teo Slayer]

I really like the castle styled maps. They look great

[TasAcri]

For me it's DOOM 1 E1 > Doom 64 > DOOM 1 E2 > DOOM 1 E3 > DOOM 2

 

Doom 2 has some pretty bad maps IMO. Those big, empty maps that are supposed to be cities for example. Some other maps feel like experimental user made maps instead of carefully designed ones for a retail game.

 

Doom 64 maps are just great. Complex, dense and detailed.

 

DOOM 1 E1 i feel like it has the best ones. Like iD really wanted to show the best DOOM has to offer to as many people as possible with the shareware episode.

 

Not sure where i'd put E4. I only played through it a couple of times.