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Orchid87

How would you rate Doom 64 mapset against vanilla ones?

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I am asking this because this would be the only way to objectively rate Doom 64 against other games in the series. Doom is a legend and FPS pioneer that can't be compared objectively due to its legendary status. Doom II is immortal with all the WADs that are still being made. Things like sprites, sound and music are subjective. The only thing left is maps. How do you like them compared to UD, D2 or Final Doom maps?

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I think Doom 64 Maps are really great, i would rate them in the same Level as i do the first Doom.

The Tone is overall darker, but the Levels play good and you have enough Diversity.

 

Doom 2 has to many Levels i personally dislike, because they feel kinda expererimental and is way to brownish for my Taste.

 

Plutonia looks good, but plays bad for "normal Users" and has a much smaller Audience compared to the "Main Games" .

(I would prefer the Wads in the modern Source Ports, like Double Impact, over TNT and Plutonia)

 

Sigil i would rate as Doom 2, but i have to play it again to get an all Time Feeling for it :)

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I'd say Doom64 has aged well the best out of the Doom engine games, BY FAR. Here's some of the reasons why:

 

-Isn't limited by palette restrictions and uses that to the fullest extent, creating an artstyle that's still extremely unique to this very day.
-Higher res... everything, really. The quality of the textures, sprites and animations in comparison to the other games is up to debate, but which looks more modern isn't.

-Was built in the most advanced version of the engine, so it does things that the other games couldn't even have dreamed of, and has some setpieces and level design that could be seen as impressive and really clever even to today's standards, something (IMO) none of the other IWADs succeed at.

-Unlike Doom 2, it feels like a proper standalone title. Doom 2 may be the one people enjoy the most, but it felt much more like an expansion to Doom 1 than anything else, just the same but better, while Doom64 provides something else entirely.

-Unlike Doom 3, it perfectly executes the horror theme, atmosphere and ambience without taking away from the gunplay, challenge and movement. Sure, it controls different from Doom 2, but after you get used to it you barely feel a difference.

-I'd personally say that it's the most challenging entry out of the classic Doom games, without being too reliant on cheap tactics and the same few enemies unlike Plutonia or TNT.

 

All in all, if someone asked me which one of the IWADs is the most fun to play, or the most high quality, i'd say Doom64 wins that competition by a loooong shot, and i'd hope most people here would agree with me on this, since that game really needs more recognition for all of its efforts.

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Tech base in Doom 64 it's kinda low in comparation to the Doom 1 and 2 techbases.

But the temples, caves, cathedrals and mostly hellish stuff that's it's mazey, it's greater that the ones in Doom 2.

Even if one of these levels it's almost a copy of a early one (Altar of Pain and Unholy Temple)

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I think they're fantastic. There's all kinds of nuggets of genius throughout the game that, for its time, were super creative. The pit of spectres in Alpha Quadrant, the former human crossfire room on The Terraformer, the entirety of Dark Citadel which is my favorite Doom map ever, the frenetic action on Watch Your Step, fighting across the eerie infinity of In The Void, so on and so forth. I think the secrets are pretty creative sometimes as well, the way to unlock the invulnerability and megasphere powerups on Watch Your Step is definitely unique.

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@Cursed Lemon Heya man, didn't know you drop in here sometimes.

 

As for Doom 64, even though some of the monsters are missing, and the architecture is more rigid than it is weird, it's still a solid campaign to zoom through. Arguably the most consistently good set of levels in the classic lineup.

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26 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

@Cursed Lemon Heya man, didn't know you drop in here sometimes.

 

Oh shewt, this guy. Heck yeah I'm a Doomer, Doom 64 is top-5 favorite games material for me. Peep me on ZDaemon every now and again too, although if I play another round of Chillax I'm going to lose my shit.

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8 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

@Cursed Lemon Heya man, didn't know you drop in here sometimes.

 

As for Doom 64, even though some of the monsters are missing, and the architecture is more rigid than it is weird, it's still a solid campaign to zoom through. Arguably the most consistently good set of levels in the classic lineup.

I think the consistency is a good point. It doesn't have the lows of Doom/Doom2's most half-arsed maps.

 

But as for the highs... I think little of Doom64 is as good as E1M3, E1M7, E3M6, E4M2, Map11 or Map29 (actually, maybe Pitfalls is a good counter to Map29). There's a massive amount of orthogonal and room-corridor-room architecture, I feel like quite a lot more than the iwads, but maybe that's because I've played D64 more recently. In particular the techbases are boxy and involve a lot of unidirectional combat -- there's a step up in quality in the hell levels that makes me wonder if the D64 team didn't do the last-maps-first workflow. I'd probably take D64 over Doom2.

 

In regards to visuals and atmosphere though, there's no contest. Doom64 looks great, they made an excellent call with the desaturated textures + lighting gradients. It has a distinct and timeless style.

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I prefer Doom 64 over PC Doom.

 

More detail, better lighting, gripping with atmosphere, epic sound effects, and very consistent in its design, or at least more consistent than Doom 2 anyway.

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3 minutes ago, seed said:

I prefer Doom 64 over PC Doom.

 

More detail, better lighting, gripping with atmosphere, epic sound effects, and very consistent in its design, or at least more consistent than Doom 2 anyway.

Thanks, but this is exactly what I meant when I said about subjective stuff. I prefer PC sounds, music and lighting in Doom by far, and I'm not alone with this opinion, but I haven't meant to start another versus thread. I'd like to discuss Doom 64 strictly from the map design point of view instead. I believe that it has some really nice design elements that really make the game stand apart from other titles. Also I agree with what others said here - it's the most consistent, although I'd argue that Plutonia is just as consistent too.

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46 minutes ago, Orchid87 said:

Thanks, but this is exactly what I meant when I said about subjective stuff.

 

The problem here is that you can't get a fully objective comparison going, because it aims for different things, just like PC Doom does, so it's a bit of an apple vs oranges deal.

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I agree that 64's aged real well.
The Tech levels were great, although a little lacking in UD's department, but much better then Doom 2's. Doom 2's only great because of its versatility via monsters, but original maps don't "look" great compared to the fanmade.

But 64 really shines with the Castle and Hell levels. Both beautiful to look at, to play through. They imo out do Ultimate Doom's hell levels, which yes a bit controversial, but it just has the shine, the flow, chaos and design.  Where it takes a map or 3 to really feel what the episode is about where 64 just punches you straight in.

 

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for me DOOM64 is consistently alright,and its atmosphere slaps almost all of PC doom easily but never had the highs of PC doom,like go 2 it and the living end

pulls too many punches and it lacks my favorite enemies (like Revenants and especially archviles),while under-using the mancubus

though this is probably due to N64 limitations

On 2/10/2021 at 5:20 AM, seed said:

The problem here is that you can't get a fully objective comparison going, because it aims for different things

almost no 2 games are looking to do the same thing,but id say comparing DOOM games from the same era is pretty fair,even though they where for different systems

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I really dig the levels in Doom 64 (It's one of my favorite Dooms after all!) Like all Doom games, some maps are good, and some not so much, but still perfectly playable. Where Doom 64 maps really shine are the hell/otherworld maps. Quite possibly my favorite take on hell in the Doom series.

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There were so many notable levels in DOOM 64. I've only played each game once or twice, and I always remember DOOM 64 levels better than DOOM 2 ones, and a bit more than DOOM ones. I feel like DOOM 64 was really putting you into real environments, while DOOM 2 was just kind of placing you in cool-looking areas rather than realistic seeming areas. DOOM was closer to 64 in that it did have some structures that looked like real places or realistic things sometimes, but I think D64 just had a bit more. If this is a bit confusing, basically I'm saying that DOOM 64 had the coolest level design out of the main games. 

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I don't remember the order and names of the maps, but one trick I adored was when they would have the map change and transform into large arenas. It was almost as if the levels were alive and trying to stop you from winning.

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3 hours ago, SplinkWizard said:

I don't remember the order and names of the maps, but one trick I adored was when they would have the map change and transform into large arenas. It was almost as if the levels were alive and trying to stop you from winning.

this is chumpass guhuuhuhuhuhuh

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Let me do a tier list

1. Ultimate Doom

2. Doom 64

3. TNT

4. Plutonia

5. Master Levels

6. Doom 2

 

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I would put it right up there with Doom 1 and 2's designs. I'm not big on exact lists because I see it as more of a cloud of top-level interest. Doom 64 has a very elegant design philosophy, with very little of the meandering weirdness of Mt. Erebus or Downtown situations. That said, it's a bit more conservative in its architecture, but also more complex. Once you learn the ins and outs of each map, like Doom 1 and 2, it becomes a very satisfying experience.

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It reaches about the same highs as the more traditional doom campaigns but without many of the other commercial doom wads low points. Probably the most consistent classic doom game

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For me, it's on the same level as Classic DOOM, since it tries it's best to not squeeze too much on the limitations of the Nintendo 64, such as how Classic Doom tries it's best not to push the limits of the pcs at the time as much as they could.

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I can't think of any Doom 64 level that I didn't like. I have played the game a countless number of times. Every time, I never started a level and thought "great, I have to do this level". 

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15 hours ago, Chopkinsca said:

I can't think of any Doom 64 level that I didn't like. I have played the game a countless number of times. Every time, I never started a level and thought "great, I have to do this level". 

I agree, however I think the game is getting most interesting in mid playthrough, the castle levels are dope af for instance.

 

In other words, it is probably my favorite Doom game other than 1&2.

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Pretty good but overall not as memorable as Doom II.

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Posted (edited)

I like the real Doom 3, but let's be honest Doom 64 is the REAL Doom 3. I think Doom 64 is a must play for anyone who likes the first two. I don't know if I'd put it above them, but I freaking love it and how creative it gets with some of its levels and ideas. Big fan of the aesthetic overhaul, different sounds and new take on the music. Excellent stuff. It's too bad it didn't get a direct sequel, more Doom in that exact style would have been cool. I did enjoy the new mapset with the recent official PC port though, they were worth playing and amped up the difficulty.

 

I always find myself wishing there was a few more tech base maps in Doom 64 though. It seems like it's 70% hell, but I thought the dark atmosphere and tunes actually might have worked best with the earlier space levels being extra creepy and cool. They felt more claustrophobic and mysterious I guess.

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I love doom 64 so much, but its levels are just ▢

 

It's like every level is just a big square. Just a square layout. I will give "Even Simpler" a pass, but everything else, just why. But even then a lot of them are still nice at least

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Posted (edited)

Techbases are worse than most of Doom 1's E1 or E2's maps, but superior to any Doom 2 and most of Final Doom's techbases.
Hell levels are the best in the whole series with a few exceptions.

But where Doom 64 really dominates is in the secret levels department.

Edited by Sergeant_Mark_IV

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