Is a blood floor supposed to damage the player?

[HAK3180]

Doom 1 and 2 are very consistent. Blood is always damaging except:

• a very small sector that you can barely fit in in E4M1 (surrounding NIN)
• the little river in E4M8
• a small sector in Map 28 that is a lift
• some areas inaccessible in normal gameplay

 

Maybe a couple others. I just did a quick look. Also, Pandemonium has damaging blood, damaging nukage, damaging lava, and damaging water.

[Super Mighty G]

Adding too my earlier comment: do whatever you think is appropriate. But as a rule of thumb at least keep it consistent within the same map to avoid frustrating the player. 

[Mr.Rocket]

In the end we are still alive.. + beer..

 

[Martin Howe]

Personally, I disagree strongly with it. Blood is an indicator of the death and destruction that occurred before the player's character got there, but by itself isn't poisonous; I never understood the few places where blood is damaging in WADs I've played, as it's totally illogical. (Yes, I know some folks make abstract levels, I simply don't play them; looking at you Doom II :p ) 

[Eurisko]

Most of the time I believe. 

I'm sure I've played a level or two where the water is damaging. 

[Cell]

On 2/13/2021 at 10:46 PM, HAK3180 said:

Maybe a couple others. I just did a quick look. Also, Pandemonium has damaging blood, damaging nukage, damaging lava, and damaging water.

What's really funny about that is that the water deals more damage in that map than any other substances.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Cell

[Azuris]

I personally see Blood as a simple Liquid that flows through every living Beeing, so why should it hurt?

So this and Water are non damaging.

 

But if you make it hurt, there should be some Indicators, like Isles with Health, the radiation Suite or some warnings "Poision".

[Andromeda]

On 2/13/2021 at 10:59 AM, seed said:

HR also had maps where extensive use of non-damaging blood floors was made, mostly near the end.

This sounded off, so I checked the E3 levels. Excluding sectors that lose the blood texture, secret sectors and inaccessible sectors, HR E3 has 3 sectors with non-damaging blood floors, out of a total of 31 (for a percentage of ~10%).

[seed]

9 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

This sounded off, so I checked the E3 levels. Excluding sectors that lose the blood texture, secret sectors and inaccessible sectors, HR E3 has 3 sectors with non-damaging blood floors, out of a total of 31 (for a percentage of ~10%).

 

I might be thinking of HR2 then?

 

Or something else, I dunno, I could be mixing things up, I am thinking of an old slaughter wad.

[Steve D]

I belong to the non-damaging blood school. In my oldest maps I used damaging blood, but over time I came to use so much of it in Hell maps that it would have been ridiculous to provide radsuits everywhere. We're talking absolute lakes of blood in some maps. What really turned me against the damaging blood is the green overlay from the radsuits making everything look like crap. So it was a style choice over gameplay considerations. ;D

[Capellan]

I vastly prefer it be not damaging, but if a WAD is consistent, I can accept either.

[idbeholdME]

On 2/13/2021 at 5:37 PM, Doom_Dude said:

 

Behold Vanilla Sector Special Effect 7!

Huh... I don't think I remember ever encountering a floor that dealt 2% damage in any of the WADs I played... This is definitely new to me.

 

Or do you mean the normal 5% floor on ITYTD difficulty? Because wiki says sector 7 is the 5% floor.

[Alper002]

It says "2 or 5", "5 or 10", and "10 or 20" to account for the possibility of playing ITYTD where all damage is halved. In normal play you're facing the bigger of the two numbers.

 

Personally I think the red liquid floors should do whatever the author's imagination decides it should!

Whether it's cursed ketchup, boiling blood, or just the harmless regular sort, I don't have a problem with it.

[magicsofa]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:46 PM, HAK3180 said:

Doom 1 and 2 are very consistent. Blood is always damaging except:

Wow... learned something new today. I guess my attachment to the logic I use when mapping helped me to erase all memories of damaging blood in the IWADS...

[idbeholdME]

1 hour ago, Alper002 said:

It says "2 or 5", "5 or 10", and "10 or 20" to account for the possibility of playing ITYTD where all damage is halved. In normal play you're facing the bigger of the two numbers.

Got it. I just assumed that only the normal value would be used which is why I was confused at first.

[Juza]

2 hours ago, Alper002 said:

It says "2 or 5", "5 or 10", and "10 or 20" to account for the possibility of playing ITYTD where all damage is halved. In normal play you're facing the bigger of the two numbers.

 

Personally I think the red liquid floors should do whatever the author's imagination decides it should!

Whether it's cursed ketchup, boiling blood, or just the harmless regular sort, I don't have a problem with it.

If you're wearing armor (of any kind) you suffer the lower damage value, any difficulty.

[HAK3180]

1 hour ago, Juza said:

If you're wearing armor (of any kind) you suffer the lower damage value, any difficulty.

 

Actually, the normal calculations apply, rounding the damage charged to health up to the nearest whole number.

 

Not I'm Too Young to Die

No armor = -5, -10, -20, i.e. the greater face value of damage type

Green armor = -4, -7, -14 (with -1, -3, -6 being charged to armor)

Blue armor = -3, -5, -10 (with -2, -5, -10 being charged to armor)

 

 

I'm Too Young to Die

No armor = -2, -5, -10, i.e. the lesser of face value damage type

Green armor = -2, -4, -7 (with 0, -1, -3 being charged to armor)

Blue armor = -1, -3, -5 (with -1, -2, -5 being charged to armor)

 

The only real oddity is that green armor and no armor are treated the same in -2 or -5 on I'm Too Young to Die, but it makes perfect sense with the calculations, remembering that the lowest damage type is specifically -2, not -2.5

[Wagi]

Do bear in mind that there are textures in the game with the sole purpose of warning the player that a liquid is poisonous. If you want to make blood damaging, by all means do so, but it might be a good idea to use those signs.

[Clippy]

I wouldn't wanna get someone else's blood on me especially on these days so yah it should be damaging - don't ever walk in blood - especially if you like your boots

[1Destro3456]

I'm not going to pretend that I'm anything new to the conversation  but it all is up to the wad author and how they use the blood, like if it something for the tone and atmosphere of the wad, the tone of that atmosphere of the wad and also a damaging floor, or just anoher damaging floor

[LudicrousFPS]

Kinda depends on the map. If you're fighting through a blood filled swamp or something, it would be a pain for all of the map to damage. But in like a tech base or something, it makes more sense.

[thelazyqdude]

Either yes or no, depends on the wad author. 

 

But, these are some guidelines that I think you should follow if you let blood damage the players:

1. Introduce the damaging blood very early. Right next to the start, if you can. You can even give the player some sort of incentive to get into the damaging blood, like some small ammo pickups or bonuses. Then introduce it to the player again -- you're trying to hammer into the player's brain "This stuff damages you!" so that they don't do stupid things later on. Players are mostly unpredictable.
2. Provide cues that the blood damages you. Put dead decorations in the blood. Put health items near it. Hell, put a warning sign if you want.
3. Stay consistent. Man do I hate it when the wad just says "Fuck you, here's some confusion for ya."

[Jello]

On 2/15/2021 at 8:35 AM, Wagi said:

Do bear in mind that there are textures in the game with the sole purpose of warning the player that a liquid is poisonous. If you want to make blood damaging, by all means do so, but it might be a good idea to use those signs.

The problem would be that it wouldn't really make sense for demons to put up signs warning of giant toxic blood pools. The signs make sense when you're considering toxic waste in a man-made facility, but I really don't think OSHA is going to get on the demons about their safety precautions.

[Stupid Bunny]

Hey the Imps Local 409 has been fighting real hard for better workplace safety

[Doomkid]

If you make the blue water flat damaging in your map I will personally come to your house and give you a stern finger-wagging.

 

On 2/14/2021 at 12:47 AM, Doom_Dude said:

Lava and nukage hurts.

Blood, water and brown slime doesn't hurt.

On 2/14/2021 at 3:42 AM, Mr.Rocket said:

I usually don't set a damage for blood, water or sludge, but I do for lava and nukage.

 

What they said!

[Jello]

2 hours ago, StupidBunny said:

Hey the Imps Local 409 has been fighting real hard for better workplace safety

Considering they aren't damaged by toxic floors I think they should concentrate more on all the firearms and ammunition they leave laying around. Really, you just leave shotgun shells laying around in blood?

 

Or is picking that stuff up "Not your job?".

[ketmar]

18 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

If you make the blue water flat damaging in your map I will personally come to your house and give you a stern finger-wagging.

'cmon, even today it is not recommended to swim in random water pools. bad ecological situation, all that. now imagine how bad it will become in the future! i'd expect water to hit you hard!

[pcorf]

This is how I usually set my floors. And just like Romero in his iwad maps (not Sigil) I also use the highest number in the texture.

 

Water = No damage. (I use FWATER4)

Blood = No damage or 5%. (BLOOD3)

Nukage = 10%. (NUKAGE3)

Lava = 20%. (LAVA4)

Brown Slime (extracted from salamanders, snails and slugs, squid, fish, hagfish, spit, whatever is slimy) = No damage, or sometimes some damage 5% or 10%. It varies.

Rrock05-08 or other glowing cracks. = Usually 5%.

[roadworx]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

If you make the blue water flat damaging in your map I will personally come to your house and give you a stern finger-wagging.

but what if the water is supposed to be boiling, or full of piranhas, or heavily contaminated by cholera? what then, huh?

[Stupid Bunny]

@Doomkid what if it's evil water, does that count?