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Final thoughts on Doom 2 after completion?

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1 hour ago, NaturalTvventy said:

Final DOOM was two sets of amature trash which tarnished the DOOM name, leaving a bitter taste in my mouth.

 

3 minutes ago, NaturalTvventy said:

The truth hurts!

It hurts!

But...but...

 

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2 hours ago, Omniarch said:

Though, admittedly, if Sandy only had to make six maps for D2 rather than sixteen, he might well have proven the better designer. The main issue with most of his maps is the vague sense that they are underdone, and could have used a bit more polish. Without that shortcoming, I think his stuff could have been phenomenal.

 

Man, I wish Sandy would decide to make something like Sigil. That would be a very interesting set indeed.

 

Yeah, but here's the thing, many of these seemingly undercooked maps did not see many, if any in some cases, subsequent revisions during development, or afterwards via patches, such as Downtown.

 

So I do believe that ultimately it was just Sandy's idiosyncracy, he very much liked them that way. The most Doom 2's maps have seen, off the top of my head, include the barrier removal on Underhalls in v1.7, a missing texture and a HOM fix on Courtyard, and some minor texture changes and touches on Bloodfalls.

 

But otherwise, I still stand by my opinion.

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12 hours ago, Orchid87 said:

My point about first maps in the episodes is not that they force you to pistol start, but that they are too short and easy because of being balanced for pistol start. One starting map is good, the rest just take up valuable map spots. 

 

How do you propose handling player deaths if a map isn't balanced around pistol start? 

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2 hours ago, NaturalTvventy said:

Final DOOM was two sets of amature trash which tarnished the DOOM name, leaving a bitter taste in my mouth.

But... Final Doom is cool... :,(

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Back in '95 or so, it was amazing. The Super Shotgun was an absolute beast of a weapon that trivialized smaller mobs - perfect for a sequel after you endure through the original Doom carefully picking off hitscanners. As the game progressed, levels would get weirder and weirder, and it was awesome. It felt like the level designers were going like "let's see how you deal with this", completely ignoring realism in favor of fun challenges. The final boss was also a thrill. I'll never forget climbing that pillar for the last time, hearing literal hell breaking loose behind me, carefully aiming at the monster's face and holding my finger on the Ctrl key, waiting for the right moment.

 

These days, though, it's a bit of a pain in the ass. The confusing level design of latter levels is more boring than challenging. Tightrope walking gets old fast. These days I usually replay Doom 2 until I reach The Pit, then quit.

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7 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

And again, doing different segments and pistol starts seem to fix the problem and you can make it a so-called episode yourself. However, you can't do it backwards on Doom 1 where I want to play them continuously, so what's so bad about not breaking them apart?

On a semi-related note, I just found out that you can actually make The Ultimate Doom into one continuous episode.

 

I had to google it, but it led me back to an old thread on this very website, coincidentally enough!

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2 hours ago, thelazyqdude said:

"Welp, that's finally done with."

And then I went back to playing some way better community creations.

Ah, a man of culture 

 

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In the 90s when i played through Doom II i never thought anything negative of any of the level designs, i gotta admit.  i loved every minute of it, and still do.  The quirks and the tricks are just par for the course.  And as much as i enjoy a lot of levels made by various people from here and elsewhere, i wouldn't say they are better than the originals, only different.

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I've been wondering where the bad folks will go when they die now.

 

On 2/23/2021 at 2:38 AM, Orchid87 said:

7) Episodic structure has a disadvantage in that every starting level in an episode has to be dumbed down for a pistol start, as opposed to only one level in Doom 2. Also, Doom 1 episodes are too damn short.

 

E4M1 sure wasn't dumbed down for pistol start if you want 100% secrets and kills.

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I finished Doom 2 for the first time when I was a kid (I played the game w/ keyboard only back then) I used to hate the game and never liked it, I thought it was too hard, the game had more enemies and low ammo for some reason.

 

Years later after discovering source ports with mouse support and better resolution such as Prboom thanks to a friend, I changed my mind and I think it's a really fun game but I still have some complaints about the level design, it's just not as great as the first game... Some maps like Nirvana or The Chasm were mediocre and horrible imo.

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This is more of a nitpick, but I do wish Doom II featured overworld maps like Doom and Heretic. They were a fun little touch in addition to giving you a sense of navigating through a world rather than just going from one level to another and they were much nicer to look at than just a plain text screen.

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