Do you consider mouselook as a cheat?

[SF.]

The problem I have with mouselook, more than it giving the player a big advantage, is that it makes the 2d sprites look like shit. If you can look past that and if mouselooking makes your experience more enjoyable, who gives a damn? Play the way that gives you the best experience/ most satisfaction.

[Pompeji]

Depends on the map. If the creator disables mouselook in MAPINFO and says the map was designed with vanilla design in mind, then yes, it is cheating. Same for jumping and crouching. If the creator did not tinker with MAPINFO to disable mouselook and did not say not to use it, then I see it as being an improvement on the game's vanilla gameplay. I am a sucker for no mouselook because I like the old school DOOM feel but I'm not afraid to use it if an author recommends or even encourages the use of it.

[seed]

27 minutes ago, paturn said:

The problem I have with mouselook, more than it giving the player a big advantage, is that it makes the 2d sprites look like shit. If you can look past that and if mouselooking makes your experience more enjoyable, who gives a damn? Play the way that gives you the best experience/ most satisfaction.

 

Always enable sprite billboarding for X/Y axis  when using freelook 🦊.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

I don't think mouselook is a cheat, it's another way to play, it's very helpful with mods like BD, Final Doomer, I would even say smooth doom. That is of course without autoaim. When I feel like using mouselook, I usually turn autoaim off so it doesn't mess up the aiming.

 

It's fine if you like it, like I said, it's another way to fight. I usually play with mouselook with zdoom based ports, sometimes in prboom-plus too.

[mxrgan]

I like both the classic and freelook modes. I dont consider it to be a cheat but as a helping hand for people new to doom. Ofc freelook could be a little wonky in some situations, but it comes in handy when it comes to making it easier to aim. But I like to play with the classic look mode nowadays.

[Karl515]

7 hours ago, BoxY said:

People make a lot of bones about shootable switches and stuff but I think there's way more broken stuff about it, particularly the ability to fire the rocket launcher and BFG into horizontal surfaces completely changes the way those weapons are supposed to work. With RL you can splash the floor and hurt enemies even if you miss, and shooting the BFG ball into the floor to proc the hitscan whenever you want can't be compared to default aim where aiming the ball precisely at monsters and walls is a core mechanic and missing a ball will ruin the shot. It's not really a big deal how people prefer to play casually, but anyone trying to claim that freelook mechanics are basically equivalent or don't give a large gameplay advantage are clowning.

I haven't actually thought of using the BFG like that. That's actually a great one huh.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

I wouldn't normally consider it a cheat unless either the map is vanilla/boom, or if it's a Icon of Sin (i.e. mouselook into the brain and boom boom until victory)

[Karl515]

4 hours ago, paturn said:

The problem I have with mouselook, more than it giving the player a big advantage, is that it makes the 2d sprites look like shit. If you can look past that and if mouselooking makes your experience more enjoyable, who gives a damn? Play the way that gives you the best experience/ most satisfaction.

yeah it does look shit lol.

[Karl515]

4 hours ago, Horus said:

One thing not yet mentioned is that mouselook also allows for vertical rocket jumping, which can break many maps given the height you can gain from it

Yeah that's one thing too.

[Karl515]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:48 AM, Nine Inch Heels said:

That being said, it isn't "cheating" if you don't compete in some official manner, because who are you going to cheat if you play for your own amusement and nothing else, but take a look at doom2 map 30 and tell me mouselook doesn't make the icon of sin easier by an order of magnitudes...

 

On 2/23/2021 at 7:01 AM, StupidBunny said:

 

Mouselook might indeed cheapen the experience of certain levels (again, the example of MAP30), 

 

7 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

I wouldn't normally consider it a cheat unless either the map is vanilla/boom, or if it's a Icon of Sin (i.e. mouselook into the brain and boom boom until victory)

And the biggest problem of freelook (and the reason why I didn't like the ending of DooM 2 on my first playthrough) is that the Icon of Sin becomes easier. I hope that someone would fix this (Like what Lithium does when it detects an IOS).

[Spectre01]

5 hours ago, seed said:

 

Always enable sprite billboarding for X/Y axis  when using freelook 🦊.

If only that didn't affect static sprites like trees and tech columns. I've always used that setting before, but playing wads like Lost Civilization makes all the sprite vegetation look messed up. I wonder if that's possible to configure...

[Yandere_Doomer]

mouselook isnt a cheat.....
i cant stand not using it.

[Hawk of The Crystals]

If i'm gonna be honest, playing with a controller feels more natural then with a mouse for me, i understand the appeal with m&kb. But if the wad's creator wants me to play without it, well, i'm breaking out the ps2 controller adapter.

 

[Yandere_Doomer]

I mean like.... im not going to hate or ridicule the Op for creating this because they clearly didnt know but.... i am really getting tired of the same old topics being brought up again...

 

not so long ago there was a thread like this

[Kute]

Honestly? Yea, it is. The game wasn't designed for looking up and down.

 

It doesn't matter at all. But it is. The core of the game is aiming a gun. It outright breaks maps, and makes alot of fights trivial - stuff like the start of map uhh 28? In Doom2, where you start from atop a lift, freelook allows you to kill all the mobs effortlessly, starting the map with like 8 mobs dead that couldn't fight back is cheating by any definition.

 

With that said, the real hard modern wads are too difficult for me and mouselooking wouldn't change that, for your standard surprise trap it means nothing. But there's just plain many aspects to a level that can be trivialized by mouselook

[Clippy]

have fun guys

 

u do u

 

 

[UnholyShadows]

Personally I always use mouselook unless the wad was designed around it not being used(like for switches and stuff)  I just prefer aiming myself rather than using autoaim despite playing doom for years without mouselook.

[seed]

14 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

If only that didn't affect static sprites like trees and tech columns. I've always used that setting before, but playing wads like Lost Civilization makes all the sprite vegetation look messed up. I wonder if that's possible to configure...

 

There may be a way to make it affect actors only, maybe?

 

But that would just needlessly complicate things for virtually no real benefit.

[Tato]

Yes. Vanilla or bust. 

[DeathwingDuck]

I keep freelook on because it's just way more comfortable/familiar considering my own experience with FPS games. I'll typically respect the map's rules if there's a shootable switch that can't be reached unless you're the right elevation. 

 

That being said, I did recently complete a run of Doom II with freelook off, in UV, in the crispy doom source port. It was actually quite fun and I liked that I proved to myself that I could successfully beat the Icon of Sin without freelook on. But... I still don't like that fight, and I'll most likely keep freelook on in the future.

[roadworx]

no, and you shouldn't worry about how people see it. just play the way you wanna play and have fun

[wad of doom]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:36 PM, Karl515 said:

Do you consider mouselook as a cheat? 

Cheating? Not exactly. Gaining a substantial advantage beyond that which the developers intended? Definitely. The game was designed and play-tested without freelook ability, so they expected you to have to find a way to get at enemies that are taking pot shots at you from higher platforms or from behind mobs of enemies. Still, I love being able to freelook in Doom thanks to GZDoom. It adds a more modernized feel to the game and I like having control over where I'm aiming.

[Noiser]

1 hour ago, wad of doom said:

Cheating? Not exactly. Gaining a substantial advantage beyond that which the developers intended? Definitely.

Uhm, that's exactly what a cheat is in my book. (Not that it matters tho)

Edited March 2, 2021 by Noiser

[wad of doom]

43 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Uhm, that's exactly what a cheat is in my book.

I look at cheating as more blatant and subversive like using god mode to defeat a boss or clipping through a wall to get a power-up because you can't be arsed to look for a switch. Edit: I should have removed "substantial" from my previous post.

Edited March 2, 2021 by wad of doom

[wad of doom]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, CrystalHawk_Doom said:

If i'm gonna be honest, playing with a controller feels more natural then with a mouse for me, i understand the appeal with m&kb. But if the wad's creator wants me to play without it, well, i'm breaking out the ps2 controller adapter.

 

wad designer: This wad was intended to be played with a dildo in your asshole

Doom dogmatist/enthusiast: God damn it. *logs into adamandeve.com*

[Cursed Lemon]

I mean, isn't autoaim kind of a cheat more than mouselook? lol

[ax34]

No, but i consider shooting switches above/below me using freelook a cheat. At least in Doom.

[Stupid Bunny]

1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I mean, isn't autoaim kind of a cheat more than mouselook? lol

 

Yeah honestly I suck at mouselook aiming and feel like I play better when autoaim is doing most of the work for me

[roadworx]

12 hours ago, StupidBunny said:

 

Yeah honestly I suck at mouselook aiming and feel like I play better when autoaim is doing most of the work for me

ugh, same. and even then my aim is all over the place lol

[beanz]

Mouselook isn't cheating but disabling autoaim is. The autoaim works in a particular way that I feel is "essential" to the "vanilla" experience. Mouselook is nice sometimes to be able to admire geometry of the level. If you're playing with a weapon mod or something then I don't think whether or not you use autoaim or mouselook matter, however.