Conspiracy Theorists Make My Brain Hurt

[Murdoch]

Is it just me or has there been an absolutely insane spike in both the number of conspiracy theories and how idiotic they are over the last few years? Before anyone starts - yes, conspiracies do happen. But people are unreliable. The more you bring in, the chances of failure increase exponentially. The odds of a large scale conspiracy being kept secret for a long period of time are extraordinarily low. And "they" certainly cannot DOUSE AN ENTIRE GIANT STATE IN FAKE SNOW!

 

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/fake-snow-conspiracy-sweeps-social-media-after-texas-storm/ar-BB1dV6ON

[Grazza]

Yes. We live in a post-truth era, and it will lead to the end of civilization.

[Doomkid]

The problem is multi-faceted, but the different facets can be traced back a fair few years. It's mostly due to the fossil fuel industry wanting to remain unchallenged. Their way of trying to squash any opposing means of generating power/fuel is by paying pundits to convince the masses that humans/pollution/CO2 emissions aren't even remotely responsible for how erratic the climate is becoming. There's been a very focused effort to label anyone who acknowledges the reality of climate change as communist or socialist or whatever other pejorative, and due to how powerful McCarthyism was and still is in America, it's been largely successful.

 

Most of the absurd conspiracy theories of a highly political nature follow the same general trend. If you can convince enough millions of people that realistic opinions and conclusions are all "scary communist bullshit", you can have them all rallying behind any insane idea/conspiracy that you're willing to pay your pundits to spread in just one generation. The popularity of Qanon is a testament to this, including the popularity of other baseless conspiracies such as the stolen election, which was pushed by pundit Tucker Carlson ad nauseam.

 

Long-short version: Billionaires pay millionaires to convince the masses of utter bullshit (so as to protect their cushy place at the top of the shit heap), and tell them if they don't believe the utter bullshit, they're just a dirty no-good communist.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

I personally don't like conspirancy theories, I find them stupid.

[Gokuma]

I think it's hilarious to see Flat-Earthers offended by Hollow Earth Theory, but then get totally schooled by Hollow Earth Theorists.

 

I don't believe in Hollow Earth but it's at least interesting.   I wouldn't deny there's more subterranean architecture and/or more to Antarctica than we know of.   I'm not saying there actually is though.

 

The original Journey to the Center of the Earth is a freaking great classic movie.   The new one's a bit entertaining but too much kiddified and CGI BS.   Haven't read Jules Vern's book yet.

[P41R47]

39 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

they're just a dirty no-good communist

Problem isn't that people being no-good communist.

You can be happy being communist.

Problem is people think being communist is bad.

And that way back to the fosil era.

That comes from the industrial revolution and the raise of the burgoise.

The crisis of fin de sicle that took the nobility by surprise as every damn noble was ruined and they have to ask for money to the ''lower-classes''.

And if you go even more backward, you then realice that there is a central figure on ''civilization'' that defined how we have to feel and how we have to be saying us that if we are not like them, we are bad.

There was no fossil fuel backthen, only gold.

Gold is black by today standars, thats the only thing that changed.

History repeated itself with just little variant, thats the ugly truth.

[Mr. Freeze]

Remember when the conspiracy guy you knew was all like "Atlantis is real!" and "They're keeping UFOs in Area 51!" and you just kind of chuckled and thought to yourself "Gee, Bob sure is nuts!" but then as the years went by his conspiracies became incredibly right-wing and he started stockpiling weapons?

 

Pepperidge Doom Remembers

[Doomkid]

26 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Problem isn't that people being no-good communist.

You can be happy being communist.

Problem is people think being communist is bad.

This may be a language barrier thing, but admittedly I should have put that in quotes - I wasn't calling communists/socialists dirty, I was referring to the use of "dirty no-good communist" as a pejorative, which is how it's commonly used in America and American media. This stems directly from McCarthyism, which is the practice of making accusations of subversion/treason/general wrongdoing without any proper regard for evidence, and conflating all and any "bad" things with "communism and socialism" even where no such relationship exists. For example, calling people who don't deny the reality of climate change "commies" even though it is in no way related to communism.

 

It's very common practice in American media, generally used to discredit valid ideas by attaching inaccurate labels to them rather than actually addressing or discussing the ideas themselves. It's much easier to just shut the idea down right away by saying the big C word rather than engaging any sort of meaningful rebuttal.

[JacenXYZ]

If there was a conspiracy theorist that I can't stand... Alex Jones.

 

I know he's old news, but he drives me insane.

[snapshot]

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

90% of conspiracy theorists in my experience are conspiracy theorists because they gain some sort of psychological utility from those beliefs. This can range from being unable to cope with the fact that nobody is actually in charge and that bad shit happens randomly to relying on the power trip that comes with being a contrarian asshole to fuel their self esteem.

[P41R47]

14 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

This may be a language barrier thing, but admittedly I should have put that in quotes - I wasn't calling communists/socialists dirty, I was referring to the use of "dirty no-good communist" as a pejorative, which is how it's commonly used in America and American media. This stems directly from McCarthyism, which is the practice of making accusations of subversion/treason/general wrongdoing without any proper regard for evidence, and conflating all and any "bad" things with "communism and socialism" even where no such relationship exists. For example, calling people who don't deny the reality of climate change "commies" even though it is in no way related to communism.

 

It's very common practice in American media, generally used to discredit valid ideas by attaching inaccurate labels to them rather than actually addressing or discussing the ideas themselves. It's much easier to just shut the idea down right away by saying the big C word rather than engaging any sort of meaningful rebuttal.

no language barrier, we practically said and think the same at that point.

I went further down the rabbit hole pointing out how gold has different meanings and how ''nobility'' changed through time.

Today, the nobility are the ''high burgoise'' owners of great corporates that dictaminates what is the good and what is the bad.

Backthen were the owners of the only terrain aknowledged by god, later were those that thought god designated them to reing, now god is a simple green paper, and we know that god talks to the ear of those who want to heard it ;)

[Stupid Bunny]

The government doesn't want you to know this, StupidBunny isn't even my real name I am hiding my true identity to protect my self from the information I'm about to share

 

Doom is a documentary, John Carmack is actually a robot sent from the future to save us with this secret knowledge

[Zulk RS]

Okay reacting to OP here... probably because I don't live in the US, I did not know the Fake Snow Conspiracy was... a thing. I'm not smart enough to dissect or discuss how and why conspiracy theories and theorists are born but I am frankly tired of far-fetched conspiracy theories that are just... No. At least in the past the theories were more or less harmless.

"Earth is Flat" 

"Believe what you want. You're wrong but still."

 

"Moonlanding is faked"

"Believe what you want."

 

"Ancient Aliens"

"Yes! I love that- oh wait you're talking about the conspiracy theory and not the Doom wad. Never mind. Believe what you want"

 

But now it feels like the theories have become harmful "Masks don't work.", "Vaccine's cause Autism", "Climate Change is a Hoax" These are the kind of theories that will get people killed. I am honestly tired of those theories.

[Murdoch]

5 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

The government doesn't want you to know this, StupidBunny isn't even my real name I am hiding my true identity to protect my self from the information I'm about to share

 

Doom is a documentary, John Carmack is actually a robot sent from the future to save us with this secret knowledge

 

I KNEW IT ALL ALONG!

 

Ahem, I mean that's silly you big silly conspiracy theorist. Ha!

 

25 minutes ago, Marn said:

90% of conspiracy theorists in my experience are conspiracy theorists because they gain some sort of psychological utility from those beliefs. This can range from being unable to cope with the fact that nobody is actually in charge and that bad shit happens randomly to relying on the power trip that comes with being a contrarian asshole to fuel their self esteem.

 

Yes I largely agree here. The world is a big, random, and often scary place. We crave order and reason, and if you can pin something tragic on "them" it gives a strange sense of comfort. Some fuckwit did not just shoot up that school or theatre because he's a sociopath desperate for notoriety and/or an end to the whatever pain he may be suffering, "They" put him up to it because something something gun control! The Earth is Flat and "They" want to hide it because something something makes us feel small and insignificant! Or whatever. When an idea becomes a belief, it becomes very very difficult to break someone out of that way of thinking. Zealotry of any kind is dangerous.

 

You see similar phenomena but to a lesser extent in the world of mysteries which I love. I love things that get me thinking and pondering the unknown. But I at least try to follow the Sherlock Holmes method of thinking - eliminate the impossible before considering the improbable. The Elisa Lam case is a classic. So much misinformation got out about that one in the early days that all sorts of crazy speculation came up about it. But when you strip it back and look at the original report, the mystery disappears and there is no reason to believe it was a tragic accident that happened because she was off her meds. But when you point this out to people, many still don't want to let it go. The mystery has become more important than the facts. And so it is with conspiracy nuts - you can point out the absurdity of trying to dump countless tons of fake snow onto Texas, or that no democrats are not all cannibal pedophiles or whatever nonsense Qanon has morphed into this month because there is no fucking way that something of that scale could ever be hidden, or no the Earth is not Flat because even the most basic of naked eye observations demonstrate it is fundamentally impossible but it doesn't matter to these people. Bad things happen when you put beliefs before logic and facts.

 

Bias is an inherent part of human psychology. We all have them. But we should try to at least back it up with reason.

[Mr. Freeze]

11 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

At least in the past the theories were more or less harmless.

 

That's what I thought too, until I realized the people talking about fake Moon landings and Ancient Aliens became Qanon cultists and aspiring mass shooters. 

 

America has a tolerance problem in that we tolerate too much dumb shit from others. The proper response to someone claiming the Moon landing is fake is not "Well gee shucks, I disagree but that's your opinion" it's "Well that's fucking stupid, why the hell would you think that?"

[Murdoch]

20 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

 

But now it feels like the theories have become harmful "Masks don't work.", "Vaccine's cause Autism", "Climate Change is a Hoax" These are the kind of theories that will get people killed. I am honestly tired of those theories.

 

I am actually in New Zealand, just stumbled across that on MSN news. But yes you are right, some conspiracies can be very dangerous as you say. Qanon is inspiring people to do progressively more stupid things and even actual heroes who fight actual human trafficking are sick of their shit and calling them a hindrance to real operations. The only thing worse than someone willing to do evil things is someone who does evil things because they think they are in the right.

 

7 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

That's what I thought too, until I realized the people talking about fake Moon landings and Ancient Aliens became Qanon cultists and aspiring mass shooters. 

 

Yeah, other more "harmless" conspiracy theories can often be the gateway to worse.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Murdoch

[DooM Bear]

I looove a good conspiracy theory! 

 

I generally don’t believe them but the good ones give you that “huh, that kinda could make sense and I need to think about that” feeling.

 

Best example I can think of is the old “the FBI and CIA were prevented from / intentionally did not share the information that could have prevented 9/11 so that the US could invade Afghanistan before moving to its real target (Iraq) for the oil.” 

 

While I don’t think it is true, it makes just enough sense and has enough true and validated components to make you think about it.

 

That said, most (if not all) of the “conspiracy theories” that come out these days seem to be hot garbage that fall apart with two brain cells and the slightest bit of scrutiny:-P

[seed]

Yes, they do.

 

Some of the theorists used to look harmless at least, and do it because it somehow makes them feel more secure. And, as long as they keep the nonsense to themselves I'm fine, but once they start being legit harmful, I have a real problem.

 

I can tolerate idiots, but not when their idiocy has visible consequences in the world.

[insertwackynamehere]

The easiest way to drown out real conspiracies is to flood every channel with endless noise about nonsensical conspiracies hence dragging down the conversation to the lowest common denominator, making any sort of status quo questioning look crazy by association, and as a final bonus, some of the noisy nonsense conspiracy theories can actually be manipulative brainwashing ones rather than just silly stupid ones.

 

That’s the real conspiracy, IMO, and I know how ironically meta it is.

[Murdoch]

29 minutes ago, insertwackynamehere said:

The easiest way to drown out real conspiracies is to flood every channel with endless noise about nonsensical conspiracies hence dragging down the conversation to the lowest common denominator, making any sort of status quo questioning look crazy by association, and as a final bonus, some of the noisy nonsense conspiracy theories can actually be manipulative brainwashing ones rather than just silly stupid ones.

 

That’s the real conspiracy, IMO, and I know how ironically meta it is.

 

I follow some YouTube channels that mock and/or debunk conspiracies. There is one who is a frequent show called Hans Wormhat whose basic proposal is essentially everything is a conspiracy. Even penguins. Yes. Penguins. The guy is either a world class troll (and a masterful actor to sound that committed) or he's going to end up shooting up a pizza joint because if real his insane paranoia about literally everything will only get worse.

[Captain Keen]

@Murdoch Yes, Q and all that nonsense makes my head spin, and this whole "snow is fake" thing is... like... WAT. Some of it is hilarious, but most of it is pretty terrifying. Especially since Q traffics in a lot of nazi-esque conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the media and drinking the blood of children (the nazis loved their conspiracies and Hitler was into the occult).

 

That's not to say there isn't truth to some conspiracies, but you always have to ask yourself three things: 1) does the motive make sense? 2) did the people with that motive have the means to carry out such a plan? 3) is there ANY actual evidence?

 

So, for example, some of the most famous theories are centered around the assassination of JFK. But there are legitimate questions there, and the "official" story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The Joint Chiefs and CIA were mad with power in the early 60s, and we have proof that they wanted to stage false flag attacks and blame them on Cuba (Operation Northwoods). So while we'll probably never know the truth, it absolutely could have been an inside job, and the Joint Chiefs had the motive, means, and circumstantial evidence against them. Yet again, we'll likely never know the truth and can only speculate from the evidence available.

 

Compare that to the Earth is flat, or Jewish space lasers started the fires in California. Not the same thing.

 

Oh, one last thing: the 9/11 conspiracies make no sense. If W was behind them, why not blame Saddam? Why stage fake attacks, blame them on bin Laden, and then a year later try to change the narrative from Afghanistan is the threat to Iraq is the threat? In many ways Loose Change was the first social media conspiracy theory and they've just gotten (WAY) worse ever since.

[Margaret Thatcher]

On a related note, how do I get someone to believe the Kennedy assassination was just one guy? Dennis won't shut the fuck up about it.

[Stupid Bunny]

35 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

On a related note, how do I get someone to believe the Kennedy assassination was just one guy? Dennis won't shut the fuck up about it.

 

If I knew any conspiracy theories about Maggie Thatcher I'd make a joke here

[MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai]

ZEON DIDN'T DROP A SPACE COLONY ON EARTH, IT WAS JUST A HOLOGRAM. THE REAL IMPACT WAS CAUSED BY AN ASTEROID FROM ILLEGAL FEDERATION MINING OPERATION.

GOOGLE LAPLACE INCIDENT.

 

WAKE UP FEDDIES!!!!!!!!!!!

[Azuris]

7 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Is it just me or has there been an absolutely insane spike in both the number of conspiracy theories and how idiotic they are over the last few years? Before anyone starts - yes, conspiracies do happen. But people are unreliable. The more you bring in, the chances of failure increase exponentially. The odds of a large scale conspiracy being kept secret for a long period of time are extraordinarily low. And "they" certainly cannot DOUSE AN ENTIRE GIANT STATE IN FAKE SNOW!

 

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/fake-snow-conspiracy-sweeps-social-media-after-texas-storm/ar-BB1dV6ON

 

Lol...

How can they believe this?

 

But well.

In 2012 i've found a weird Commentary on a news Site and followed its Hyperlinks.

 

One lead to a Forum where People were talking about the End of the World, Nibiru, the Grey Ones, Repilloids et cetera....

I jumped to the first Page and surprisingly it started at 2004.

But there it was a Asteroid seen from a Russian Telescope, that should be Nibiru and it should arrive in May 2005.

Before May 2005 the Commentaries exploded and than came the Day... And nothing happend.

The next Post was from 2011... Now Nibiru is coming!

 

You see what the Outcoming was.

I feel like they should teach in Schools how to spot stupid Stuff and how to search for scientificly aproved Stuff.

I hate arguing against People that have Whatsapp and Facebook as their Source.

 

 

Edit:

What i have also learned.

There are also many that believe that Stuff, because it is over their Imagination that a Virus can mutate (hello!? Evolution?) or that the Climate can have such so drasticly Outcomings because we fugging up the Planet.

As they have to find something more simple to believe in because it is out of their mental Reach.

[Biodegradable]

I love how the Fake Snow™ one's not even new, but rather some recycled bullshit that was already thoroughly debunked way back in 2014.

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, DooM Bear said:

Best example I can think of is the old “the FBI and CIA were prevented from / intentionally did not share the information that could have prevented 9/11 so that the US could invade Afghanistan before moving to its real target (Iraq) for the oil.”

 

1 hour ago, Captain Keen said:

Oh, one last thing: the 9/11 conspiracies make no sense. If W was behind them, why not blame Saddam? Why stage fake attacks, blame them on bin Laden, and then a year later try to change the narrative from Afghanistan is the threat to Iraq is the threat? In many ways Loose Change was the first social media conspiracy theory and they've just gotten (WAY) worse ever since.

 

lol, back when I was like 10 through about 14-15 I was fully roped-in to 9/11 conspiracies (this was in the years directly following 9/11 after all). My first taste of it was when I was about 10 reading a "What about building 7?" link on Hellbent's old Doom Connector profile way back when and that sent my pre-teen/early teen self down a rabbit hole. I finally realized when showed evidence by a girl I was dating at the time that the whole "internal explosives and planned demolition" thing was simply too farfetched to be true.

 

The 9/11 conspiracy debate to me is kind of tragic because it's all subterfuge - whether or not it was planned (it wasn't) should be a backseat topic when you really consider what happened in the wake of 9/11, specifically the war in Iraq. Bush's constant invocation of 9/11 and Al-Qaeda to justify a preemptive attack on a country that hadn't attacked America and had sweet fuckall to do with the Twin Towers falling. Remember the "weapons of mass destruction that we're SUPER SURE Iraq has, guys!" ..that, of course, they didn't end up having? Oh well, lets invade anyway. Because, I mean... Oil. Money. Oh, we also want to get that Saddam guy out of there to "bring peace to Iraq". That "peace" never ended up coming, the only result was an estimated 500,000 deaths, blood largely on America's hands.

 

Since Saddam was taken out corruption is actually more rife than ever, with most Iraqis flat-out stating that, although he was a piece of shit, life was better under Saddam than it's been without proper leadership and groups like ISIS forming to take the reigns, at least in part. Speaking of what's happened since the removal of Saddam, one Iraqi said "Those who came after haven't improved the infrastructure, they haven't built anything, they haven't done anything for the people".

 

To think, this whole war was largely contingent on 9/11 - despite the fact that Iraq wasn't even involved with it! It's a shame that chatter about 9/11 conspiracies always takes focus away from the bigger picture of that awful 15+ year debacle. A lot of people who weren't really paying attention just boiled this all down to "Iraq bad" since that's what Bush said back in 2003 and never really thought about it beyond that, and in many cases probably reproduced and spread their ill begat ideas about Middle Easterners down to their offspring. It would certainly explain why so many people back home are still overtly racist towards people from that region.

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

Yes, Q and all that nonsense makes my head spin, and this whole "snow is fake" thing is... like... WAT. Some of it is hilarious, but most of it is pretty terrifying. Especially since Q traffics in a lot of nazi-esque conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the media and drinking the blood of children (the nazis loved their conspiracies and Hitler was into the occult).

 

Yes. It is all about demonising the other side and that is exactly what it can lead to. Pretty much everyone over the age of 12 knows about the Nazis and what they did, but comparatively few actually understand why - the psychology of it all and why it got to the point that it did.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

That's not to say there isn't truth to some conspiracies, but you always have to ask yourself three things: 1) does the motive make sense? 2) did the people with that motive have the means to carry out such a plan? 3) is there ANY actual evidence?

 

100%. Conspiracies do happen. Watergate is the big one, and various cases of company higher ups trying to hide the damage they are doing etc. Another example, I think Marilyn Monroe most likely was murdered based on the weird physical evidence that does not really line up with a simple overdose. Do I necessarily think it was the Kennedys? Hard to say. Supposedly Bobby was seen in the area but I struggle to believe they would be that stupid.

 

1 hour ago, Azuris said:

Nibiru

 

One of the most ridiculous. You could not hide something like a big ass randomly roaming planet. Between amateurs, educational institutions and independent observatories, there are thousands of telescopes of varying quality out in the world, if not millions. Someone would have seen something and keeping a lid on that many variables is impossible. I saw a couple of videos recently of people pointing at anomalies in the sky caused by a combination of mostly bright lights, fog, and shitty cameras or some combination thereof and going "OMG look planetx!" *facepalm*

 

2 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

So, for example, some of the most famous theories are centered around the assassination of JFK

 

Most of the supposedly odd things about JFK's assassination people think they know are really misinformation.

 

1. Oswald was actually capable of making that shot. It was not particularly hard and one shot actually missed and clipped a sign.

2. There is nothing odd about the path of the bullet. The apparently weird trajectory was caused by the seating heights of Kennedy and Connally and the angle of the vehicle.

3. Oswald had previously made threats against Connally. He was the real target. (see: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-reston-jfk-assassination-target-20161122-story.html).

4. Oswald had known behavioural issues, and shot a cop trying to flee. Hardly the actions of an innocent man. And if you were to argue he was bought in by some group of conspirators, then that group are frankly a bunch of morons for trusting someone with his psychological makeup.

5. Oswald was seen at the Book Depository by fellow employees at the time of the assassination, and it was his rifle.

 

The biggest red flag for me is one of simple logic. Most of the conspiracies seem to centre around the idea of a supposed second shooter firing from a different angle, usually on the grassy knoll. If you were trying to kill someone and blame it on the local nutter, why field a second shooter at all, let alone from a different angle? Ballistics were not as good back in the 60s as they are today but they were not morons. They would have been able to see if the shot came from another angle. It could have been handled far simpler with a single shooter and then staging it to look like Oswald did it.

 

I think a lot of the JFK conspiracies are born from the desire for people to believe it takes more than a loan nutter with a gun to irrevocably change history. But that simply is not true. They can, and have.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

Oh, one last thing: the 9/11 conspiracies make no sense. If W was behind them, why not blame Saddam? Why stage fake attacks, blame them on bin Laden, and then a year later try to change the narrative from Afghanistan is the threat to Iraq is the threat? In many ways Loose Change was the first social media conspiracy theory and they've just gotten (WAY) worse ever since.

 

Also agreed. A YouTuber named Miles Power did a superb series of videos taking apart the conspiracies. I cannot recommend it enough.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ml6r7cuKe8

 

One of the big lies conspiracy nuts peddles is "jet fuel can't melt steel beams". And yet not one official source ever said they did. Jet fuel DOES, however, burn hot enough to severely compromise their strength. And when you have a bunch of steel beams supporting a crapton of weight that lose a great deal of their strength, well, you don't need to be a physics major to figure out the rest. They also selectively show certain angles to try to make Building 7 look less damaged than it actually was etc. My own argument is one of simple psychology and logistics. If 9/11 was an inside job, it was not a dozen guys in a dark room putting this into action. It would have required dozens of skilled personnel to execute it. And you are going to tell me that these probably military guys would have been OK with being complicit in the murder of thousands of the men, women and children they swore to protect for insert vague argument about forcing a war with Iraq by way of Afghanistan here? And not one of them has come forward after almost 2 decades? Nope. No way. Not to mention that the Taliban's response to getting shot at was "come at us bitch! Oh and here's a bunch of videos of us beheading people we captured!", not "Uh, dudes, that wasn't us!"

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Murdoch

[Captain Keen]

2 hours ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

On a related note, how do I get someone to believe the Kennedy assassination was just one guy? Dennis won't shut the fuck up about it. 

 

You probably won't. The best you can do is convince him that he'll never know the truth, and he shouldn't presume that he has all the answers. People who disagree with him aren't "sheeple". We will probably never have a definitive answer to the JFK assassination; the people who knew are dead and I doubt they left anything behind that would be too incriminating. I personally think the Joint Chiefs probably had a hand in it, as they wanted a major war (with Cuba or Vietnam) and JFK was trying to do the opposite behind-the-scenes. But we'll probably never know for sure. It's possible Oswald did act alone, absolutely.

 

26 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

The 9/11 conspiracy debate to me is kind of tragic because it's all subterfuge - whether or not it was planned (it wasn't) should be a backseat topic when you really consider what happened in the wake of 9/11, specifically the war in Iraq.

 

Yes, I agree completely. And another reason I have trouble taking any of these "theories" seriously. What we know for a fact is just as damning, and in many ways worse. It just relates to Iraq, not 9/11 or bin Laden. The Iraq War killed a lot more people than 9/11, too.

 

Same with Q. Pedophilia is a legitimate problem, and people in power with a lot of money traffic young children. Jeffrey Epstein is a perfect example of this. The conspiracy theory nuts have taken a real issue and perverted it to fit their own political agenda. The irony is especially extreme considering Trump was close friends with Epstein and probably helped launder money for the Russian mob. Nevermind the personal accusations against him (alleging Trump and Epstein handcuffed a 13 year old to a bed and raped her).

 

28 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

That "peace" never ended up coming, the only result was an estimated 500,000 deaths, blood largely on America's hands.

 

Yep. Until 2020, I would have said that W was still a worse president than Trump. The pandemic non-response and attempt to overthrow the American government finally put Trump as the worst, but W is ALSO among our worst. (For me I'd rank the worst as Trump, Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, W and then probably Fillmore or Pierce or maybe Harding or Hoover.)

 

32 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

It would certainly explain why so many people back home are still overtly racist towards people from that region. 

 

Yeah, I'm half Middle Eastern and it was definitely a huge change for me pre-9/11 and post 9/11.