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DavetheDoomguy

Is this a good starting map design? (fairly new to mapmaking)

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So, I was messing with random shapes and designs and came up with this, but I need to know if it would work well in practice vs theory: 

 

- The small squares at the top and bottom are where I'd put switches, with the larger boxes above/below being where you'd come across the demons (after picking up a keycard or something).

- The rooms off to the side are where I'd want secrets and/or extra monsters to go (so the player takes a bit of a gamble when opening those rooms).

- And then there's the starting room, hallway, and small arenas. I'm not quite sure if there should be monsters in the arena by default, but I think that keycards and pickups would probably be there.

 

2021_02.27-17_47.png.d8b00dd477fa7886a0ffbf399f3ffa1b.pngScreenshot_Doom_20210227_180626.png.3bcca109e933ed1d70a823dd2b31fde8.pngScreenshot_Doom_20210227_180633.png.1a88552fa4da2205d4cca89b758756b4.pngScreenshot_Doom_20210227_180636.png.6c5082ecb078ad19cfa40b5fce941a7c.png

Edited by DavetheDoomguy : Additional Screenshots

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its not a bad design, give it heigh variations, like stair going up on one side, and going down on the other side.

Maybe texturing the areas differently as to play with the perception of the player, as both are the same shape but looks different.

 

Maybe adding also something like a courtyard on the part above, and interconnected tunnels on the part below.

 

Yes, i think this is a good starting shape that can be developed int something good ;)

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19 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

its not a bad design, give it heigh variations, like stair going up on one side, and going down on the other side.

Maybe texturing the areas differently as to play with the perception of the player, as both are the same shape but looks different.

 

Maybe adding also something like a courtyard on the part above, and interconnected tunnels on the part below.

 

Yes, i think this is a good starting shape that can be developed int something good ;)

 

How would I go about adding the height variations, courtyard, and interconnected tunnels?

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2 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

 

How would I go about adding the height variations, courtyard, and interconnected tunnels?

 

There's an editing tutorial section. I suggest you read through the entire vanilla level editing series. It explains the basics of Doom map creation and editing.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

 

How would I go about adding the height variations, courtyard, and interconnected tunnels?

mmm, now that i look, you are working with slade, and it map editor is pretty rudimentary in contrast to the more flexible Doom Builders.

Go to sector mode and select a sector you think the height could be changed, at the right you will see the sector properties, you can change the height and the ceiling height in there. You can use negative values like -25 for example fro the sector sink into the ground.

 

To make a stair, you have to create slim sectors that are the steps and give them different height values.

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6 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

mmm, now that i look, you are working with slade, and it map editor is pretty rudimentary in contrast to the more flexible Doom Builders.

Go to sector mode and select a sector you think the height could be changed, at the right you will see the sector properties, you can change the height and the ceiling height in there. You can use negative values like -25 for example fro the sector sink into the ground.

 

To make a stair, you have to create slim sectors that are the steps and give them different height values.

 

So, for the stairs, they have to be slim rectangles with different height values?

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1 minute ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

 

So, for the stairs, they have to be slim rectangles with different height values?

yes, something like that :)

also, you can select more than one sector at the same time, so you can change the value of them.

 

If you can, i recommend you saving this project and trying to continue it on a doom builder.

The 3D mode is a great help to start and let you edit things and check how they look without launching the game.

Also, for example, you can select different sectors and just adjust the height of it with the mousewheel.

 

I don't saying you can't make a map with slade, you really can and some authors like Adam Windsor, use wadauthor, a tool that was similar to slade mapping tool, for a really long time and they did great maps with it.

But certainly, the new editors are far more easier to start out with.

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I couldn't figure out how to make them into rectangles, but I managed to do this: Screenshot_Doom_20210227_200751.png.cc9572a9d78e5feeec6bb09cccd3cd86.pngScreenshot_Doom_20210227_200756.png.5de6ad298330e1e296ca187f4c1d63f4.png

 

I do need to fix the walls in the second screenshot, though. I could probably find another texture to work with the floor/wall dynamic.

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22 minutes ago, Dubbagdarrel said:

I think that it's too symmetrical.

Like they said, a symmetrical map can make the player feel lost or make the map feel repetitive.

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10 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

I couldn't figure out how to make them into rectangles, but I managed to do this: Screenshot_Doom_20210227_200751.png.cc9572a9d78e5feeec6bb09cccd3cd86.pngScreenshot_Doom_20210227_200756.png.5de6ad298330e1e296ca187f4c1d63f4.png

 

I do need to fix the walls in the second screenshot, though. I could probably find another texture to work with the floor/wall dynamic.

its totally cool, that stair steps work for what they are needes, i suggested rectangular-esque  shapes as i thought they would be easier to draw. But those steps work, too.

Now it looks and feel different :D

As the other members said, symetrycal shaped areas my confuse the players, thats why i suggested making one like a 1fs floor, and the other area like being underground, that way, the simetry don't play a disorienting role.

 

Its is slowly taking shape, its good to see that ;)

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Just now, N1ck said:

Like they said, a symmetrical map can make the player feel lost or make the map feel repetitive.

 

Is there a way to make the current map less symmetrical, then? Like maybe adding parts that are non-symmetrical? Or would it be better to scrap this one and make a non-symmetrical map instead? 

 

I could make it so that this area is essentially the starting area, and the switch/keycard idea would then be for opening the next part of the map.

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2 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

 

Is there a way to make the current map less symmetrical, then? Like maybe adding parts that are non-symmetrical? Or would it be better to scrap this one and make a non-symmetrical map instead? 

 

I could make it so that this area is essentially the starting area, and the switch/keycard idea would then be for opening the next part of the map.

yes you can still use it, don't worry.

On the north area, you can draw an orthogonal area outside of what you already have, something like this:
1633701018_testshapemap01.png.a7f73cc893bdede5dd3c2fff6f31e8d6.png

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6 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

yes you can still use it, don't worry.

On the north area, you can draw an orthogonal area outside of what you already have, something like this:
1633701018_testshapemap01.png.a7f73cc893bdede5dd3c2fff6f31e8d6.png

 

Would this work for a courtyard? 2021_02.27-20_48.png.869b7f367ff7da48d35ab2022d65d397.png

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yeah, totally, but you can include the central part inside the courtyard, add some windows to it an use it much like a watch tower, or an area like where the green armor is on map E1M1 from ultimate Doom :)


One interesting thing i read John Romero use on his maps is offering the player sights of different areas through windows, that way, the player feel the thrill to reach that area, or even creating some secret areas spotable from windows, and the player trying to find the way to it.

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2 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

yeah, totally, but you can include the central part inside the courtyard, add some windows to it an use it much like a watch tower, or an area like where the green armor is on map E1M1 from ultimate Doom :)

 

Are you referring to the part sticking out just below the courtyard? And how would I connect it to the courtyard?

 

 

I also came up with an idea of the starting section being inside the courtyard, like a small building. And the courtyard would instead be the main area.

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I'd recommend using Doom Builder instead of Slade to make the map. You don't have to restart, just open the wad file with it. Slade is more for adding custom things like textures, music, monsters, and general things like that and is a bit lacking on the map making aspect. Ultimate Doom Builder is the newest version but Doom Builder 2 works too.

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Looks very simmetrical and confusing to be honest, not to talk about lack of detailing, starts on a "hub" kind of area like Tricks and Traps are good if you manage to give it some class or minimal variety, not bad, but I'm sure a nice coat of paint will make it really good, something that really differenciate areas.

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3 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

Are you referring to the part sticking out just below the courtyard?

on the above area there was three apendices, i'm referring to the central one being also inside the courtyard.
Similar to this area on E1M1:

1925933572_testshapemap02.png.3859ec23e4ec1f771fea119291e5fcb8.png
you can put windows on it to view the courtyard from there and even kill some badies from there.

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4 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

on the above area there was three apendices, i'm referring to the central one being also inside the courtyard.
Similar to this area on E1M1:

1925933572_testshapemap02.png.3859ec23e4ec1f771fea119291e5fcb8.png
you can put windows on it to view the courtyard from there and even kill some badies from there.

 

How would I turn it into a watchtower? What do I need to add/change?

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3 minutes ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

 

How would I turn it into a watchtower? What do I need to add/change?

maybe just stairs before it and some windows.

Stairs you already know how to make them,

and a window is not much different, it just an elevated floor, and a downed ceiling to create the effect of a window.
1824403427_testshape03.png.dbfbb52062ad3fdc94416051e591df4e.png

create another thin sector outside the marked one, and draw little rectangles on the sides, those are the windows.

The red lines are where the stairs could be, and the circular lines could also be stairs.

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15 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

maybe just stairs before it and some windows.

Stairs you already know how to make them,

and a window is not much different, it just an elevated floor, and a downed ceiling to create the effect of a window.
1824403427_testshape03.png.dbfbb52062ad3fdc94416051e591df4e.png

create another thin sector outside the marked one, and draw little rectangles on the sides, those are the windows.

The red lines are where the stairs could be, and the circular lines could also be stairs.

 

I'm probably going to add the watchtower when I come back to this map, but I'll work on some simpler maps in order to learn what I'd need to finish it. I kinda need to get more of the basics of mapmaking before I can finish this one.

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