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wad of doom

Hexen: Can't move second gate with the bull switches

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I searched for Hexen here and found several recent posts in this forum, so I am assuming I can ask this here.

 

I am at Guardian of Steel. There are two bull switches here that move the first long gate north and south depending on which one you pull. You can even see the gate moving if you pull the switch with automap on. After getting the steel key, I came upon another gate. I've been to page two on Google looking for a way to move it and all the walkthroughs I've come across say that the same bull switches that move the first gate also move the second, but it doesn't work for me. About to use noclip, but don't want to cheat unless I am completely hosed and out of options.

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I can't really help you since I haven't gotten far in Hexen, but what are you running it with? Knowing what sourceport or anything else you run it with might help others pinpoint what could be causing the bull switches to not work for the second gate.

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I've never inspected the map in an editor so I'm not exactly sure how they work, but there should be two sets of bull switches, one set for the first side, and one set for the steel key side, four switches in total.

 

Normally I have to pull both switches on one side for each gate to move, but occasionally pulling only one switch seems to work.

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I've been all over this map and haven't even been able to find any additional switches. There's a playthrough video on YouTube, but I don't feel like trying to find the spot where they solved this puzzle.  I am going to look again to see if I missed anything.

 

Edit: Wait, you're right, there are two sets of switches, but the second set is hidden behind these two pillars which I had to noclip through. It seems I need to do something else first. This game is a pain in the ass.

Edited by wad of doom

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Yeah, I had to go back to the Seven Portals and go through a different portal that takes me to another part of the Guardian of Steel that's blocked off by those two brown pillars. Would have been nice if they implemented a sort of journal system so you can go back an read all the message that pop up onscreen.

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Aha, I assumed that since you already had the steel key you were coming from the other side, but I glossed over the fact that you would also need to know to enter the opposite side of the hub. To call Hexen confusing is an understatement, The Guardian of Steel puzzle stumped me for a very, very long time. It's the puzzle that prevented me from getting into the game altogether at first. Glad you got through it!

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Yep the way they work is I think like this:

1) The first time you go to guardian of Steel you'll have access to two switches, each one opens a steel door on the "opposite" side of it in the elevator. Now you can't do anything else and need to go to another guardian.

2) The second time the switches open the doors on their own side.

 

Note: Each hub in Hexen has a secret map. I won't tell you how to get it but it is even more annoying to figure out what you need to do in each guardian to reach it. I think most players have never seen any of the secret maps because of how awfully cryptic they tend to be.

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36 minutes ago, Pegg said:

I think most players have never seen any of the secret maps because of how awfully cryptic they tend to be.

This is common in games by id software, Doom being no exception. It's not always an off-color wall panel. A lot of the time, you have to hump every surface to find the secret. Sometimes, you have to push a button that opens a door halfway across the map and then run like hell to get to it before it closes. I think developers tend to be a bit overzealous with their secrets and take for granted the fact that they know how to discover them. They are viewing the game from the inside and fail to take into account the player's perspective. Modders are absolutely lousy with this. I recently got done playing Back to Station X and the secrets in that are so ridiculously hidden. After about six maps in, I said "screw it" and didn't even bother trying to look them up online, largely because the maps are intricate mazes that are a pain in the ass to navigate even while using automap, but I digress.

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2 minutes ago, wad of doom said:

 I think developers tend to be a bit overzealous with their secrets and take for granted the fact that they know how to discover them. They are viewing the game from the inside and fail to take into account the player's perspective. Modders are absolutely lousy with this.

I think modders today are a lot better when in comes to making secrets, especially with how militant people are with "Dos and donts of mapping" (no doors, no inescapable pits, etc)

 

Secrets have are less about wall hugging and more about finding subtle queues or the geometry just naturally guiding you tbere

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11 minutes ago, wad of doom said:

This is common in games by id software, Doom being no exception.

 

Hexen is a level above the rest for cryptic shit though. Wall hugging won't work when the switch is hidden in another map. And there is really annoying ways to hide stuff you'll meet as you progress in the game. 7 Portals is the least cryptic of the lot :P.

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I really love HeXen (and Deathkings holds a special place in my heart),  but it is everything than a no-brainer. Needs time, concentration and
now and than a good walkthru at hand. I Always wondered, how games with a quite similar engine can be so different like doom and HeXen are....

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2 hours ago, wad of doom said:

This is common in games by id software, Doom being no exception


Hexen was made by Raven though, and I think it's at least seven notches above Doom in terms of puzzling (see what I did there?).

I've completed the game many times and I still get stuck in a weird word-search loop where I keep looking in the same corners at switches I already pressed. My advice to you, have a walkthrough ready and don't be ashamed to use it. There's nothing about any of the puzzles that's actually interesting in my opinion - every single one is either find an obscure switch, find an obscure passage, or find an obscure puzzle item and then spend four hours shoving it into textures that seem like they should work but don't. If it weren't for the absolute perfection of the art and sound design, and the satisfyingly chunky combat, it would just be a bad game.

Every time I think about this, it really makes me want to create less headache inducing set of Hexen maps...

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