Improvements you would make to commercial Doom maps

[Tanksy]

15 hours ago, ReX said:

 

A couple of additional things occurred to me today. The maps could be made to look like the originals in DooM I, but, for example, Episode 1 wouldn't look the same without the skies. Nor would it sound the same without the music. [Side note: I had modified the Episode 1 skies for an earlier project. I suppose they could be used.]

 

Obviously, there are workarounds for these types of impediments. But they might detract from a strictly DooM I mood.

 

I suppose you could replace the DOOM II skies with DOOM I skies quite easily by importing the patches and naming them the same so they overwrite, yes?

[ReX]

On 3/8/2021 at 2:58 PM, Tanksy said:

you could replace the DOOM II skies with DOOM I skies quite easily by importing the patches and naming them the same so they overwrite

Yes, from a procedural standpoint that is the simplest way to do it. But there's the whole copyright thing for distributing idgames resources. [I do realize that something like this is unlikely to be enforced.]

[Martin Howe]

TBH I was very disappointed with DOOM II; it wasn't really Doom, more like something else.

 

If I had been God (or Satan, or even - gasp - Romero :p), the game would have a proper name (calling it DOOM II was cheap IMO), would have similar theming, lighting and enemies as Doom; the cyber enemies would not exist* (other than the two bosses), archviles would use a more traditional attack (my personal mutator gives them a Maulotaur style 'fire streak on ground' attack), no resurrecting enemies, no monsters spawning other monsters, and most importantly, episodic structure and mostly non-abstract levels. I'd have given it new enemies, but biological ones (if you can call demons biological) similar to those in Heretic and HeXen; e.g., instead of the PE something like the Dragon in HeXen. About the only thing I'd keep is the expanded texture set and, ideally, in terms of resources, sprites, musics, map names, etc, use the same naming conventions as Doom and be a true superset of Doom, so you could play Doom levels unmodified.

 

For level design, I would have liked to have seen something akin to Alien World Order, both in space and on Earth; so it'd still have a 'Hell on Earth' theme, but with demons invading rather than having already conquered. Maybe for Final Doom, an 'Astrostien without Nazis' theme, i.e., lots of techbases, space stations and alien worlds.

 

Of course, with the power of (G)ZDoom and in particular ZScript, a lot of this can be done anyway.

 

*In case anyone asks, yes I know the mancs, revs, etc, were originally supposed to be in Doom; I just don't think they fit Doom's look-and-feel, so I'd never invent them in the first place :)

Edited March 12, 2021 by Martin Howe

[Tanksy]

On 3/12/2021 at 8:53 AM, Martin Howe said:

*In case anyone asks, yes I know the mancs, revs, etc, were originally supposed to be in Doom; I just don't think they fit Doom's look-and-feel, so I'd never invent them in the first place :)

 

Man, I can't imagine Doom without the cybernetic enemies. I think it adds so much to the mystery and narrative of the game. It wouldn't be doom without the UAC's shenanigans and modifications to demons. It'd just be like.. wow shoot demons okay. UAC would be boring as a "secret evil science company" if their only evil science was "oo i made a weird teleport ooo spooky"

 

[lokbustam257]

I would make MAP13 has some kind of monument and retexture it like this:

(does that an "improvement"?

[beanz]

In my opinion E2 felt too boxy compared to E1, 3, & 4. I would do something to make it more organic.

[peach freak]

Two other minor tweaks I thought of:

 

E2M8: Make the lines separating the outside area into the inside rooms (with the ammo, health, and Rocket Launcher) block monster so the Cyberdemon can't enter them (or the Lost Souls for that matter). I swear, half the level is me trying to wait for that damn Cyberdemon to leave one of those rooms, he seemingly has an easier time getting into those rooms than he does getting out.

 

TNT Map30: Adjust the staircase so that the Cyberdemon at the top of it can completely get down it (there's an issue where the width of the Cyberdemon doesn't let him get down completely), that way you can fight him out in the big, open area. Unless the idea is that he's guarding the switch that raises the staircase to the Red Key, it makes it an annoying fight since he can't move around all that much. Also, if he goes up the stairs and onto one of the walkways on either side of the stairs, you can easily cheese the fight, since he can't hit you from those locations, his rockets will just hit the ledge in front of him, if he goes up there, you can eat away at his health with bullets and shells.

Edited April 4, 2021 by peach freak

[out_of_service]

I'd remove the maze from E1M4.

[Toastd]

I'd extend the blue key doors in Doom II MAP21 by just a dozen or so units so the player can no longer simply walk between them.

There's a lot I don't like about that map but... Really? Did nobody playtest it? Come on?

 

I'd also scatter some archviles in more interesting places throughout Doom II. The vanilla game really doesn't use even an ounce of their potential.

[BaileyTW]

In The Chasm put a pain elemental in the last balancing section before the red key.
I don't feel like the map disrespects my time quite as much as it should.

[nrofl]

I'd have Monster Condo actually be a condo

[roadworx]

On 3/12/2021 at 1:53 AM, Martin Howe said:

*In case anyone asks, yes I know the mancs, revs, etc, were originally supposed to be in Doom; I just don't think they fit Doom's look-and-feel, so I'd never invent them in the first place :)

tbh a doom without those enemies is a doom that'd never have the modding community that it does

[Stabbey]

1. Clean up all the bugs (inaccessible secrets, stuck monsters, unkillable monsters).

2. Clean up some sloppy texture work.

3. No inescapable pits ever. There will always be a way out of a pit if there's a way for a player to fall into a pit.

4. There should usually be a way to go back and collect missing secrets even if you're at the level exit.

5. Slightly clean up the keep entrance of E3M1 to make it look a bit better.

6. Add in some secret health and secret ammo in E4M1 so that you could plausibly get 100% kills on the level without using the fist.

7. Make most of the radiation suits stored in E3M7 adjacent to the central room, in little cubbies sealed with the blue key.

8. Add Numbers or symbols to the teleporters in E3M7 so you can connect destinations better. This could be done with inaccessible rooms with certain lines marked as "always appears on automap", and changing floors.

9. Make the maze in E1M4 at least appear to have a purpose.

10. In E3M5, add a small arrow made by a different ceiling height in the sky, pointing to the correct exit teleporter from the courtyard which uses a control sector to slightly raise in height after finding the teleporter out the first time. Or just redesign the whole map to be less obnoxious.

11. General redesign E2M5 for better flow and pacing.

12. Add a way to the normal exit in E2M6 which doesn't require running along damaging floors.

13. Make E4M4 more challenging to go along with the rest of the map.

 

[BaileyTW]

I noticed in my first 100% playthrough of Doom 2, other than E2M8, you are never once expected to fight a cyberdemon in a "fair" fight. You fight all of them with the aid of invincibility, a bfg, or a spider demon. map 29, The Living End, would have been a perfect opportunity for a fair fight with the cyberdemon and if you go for all kills and secrets that's what you get but uh...exit's just right there.

Would have been nice for that cyberdemon to be a required kill, a wall or bars lowering at the exit once the cyberdemon is dead (would have also had the benefit of being another level with a special tag based on monsters being killed like Dead Simple). Now, I do think it would be a spike in difficulty, one that no other cyberdemon but E2M8's really prepared you for but it would have been neat.