What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

[Dodgy Dave]

Oh oh oh oh...

 

Games Workshop hires ID to make a Space Hulk game.

[whatup876]

Reminds me of the Doom board game that was compared to Space Hulk but with some differences.

There's also something funny about the differences between id and Games Workshop with how they treat their fanbases lol.

[TenenteZashu]

Do something with DOOM 3, the game may not be great but there's some really cool concepts like Maledict, the ancient martian people who could be a stand in for the Argent Sentinels and let's not forget the Soul Cube in Doom Guy's office

[MidnightMage]

I'd like ID to make a reboot of Catacomb 3d. For the next generation.

[whatup876]

Something i usually suggest for D3 is a re-release that doesn't make things worse, nor remove content and add some good features and options.

I think its potential could also still extend for another game/expansion too.

 

Not sure how you can reboot Catacomb 3D but as far as i know, i've yet to see modern Doom reference that series.

[Man of Doom]

Hoo boy. So before I start my thoughts, I’d like everyone to read this:

 

 

Read it? Good, because I’m going to build off of what I said here (even if I was in quite a mood when I wrote out the initial TwitLonger). But even at that time, I was less angry and just… bewildered, to put it lightly.

 

After TAG2, there’s actually quite a lot of possibilities worth exploring. For one, there’s still so much of Hell that’s still has yet to be explored, be it the more Lovecraftian, the non-Euclidean, or even just the more fucked-up sections of Hell. Immora was clearly meant to be the “most civilized” part of Hell, and it can only get more twisted from there.

Not only that, there’s still the matter of what became of Samuel/Samur, the cultist UAC after the fall of the Hell Priests, or whether Commander Valen was really killed by the Dark Lord.

 

That being said, I think id should let things rest and settle for a little bit in regards to the Slayer’s time and what ultimately became of him. And yeah, I honestly wouldn’t mind a new singleplayer Quake title. Hell, even a new Enemy Territory or Halo Wars-like spinoff doesn’t sound too bad.

 

But given the absolute Mass Effect 3/Halloween Kills-esque vitriol towards TAG2, I absolutely would not be surprised if id decided to pull an End of Evangelion and put together a “true” or “revised” ending of the story arc that began with Doom 2016, complete with an air of “ok, here you go; hope you’re happy with all the standard fanservice to wash down all the stuff you thought was the Worst Thing Ever”.

And I seriously doubt that the writing team at id were writing by the seat of their pants or were changing things at Hugo Martin’s whim because “it sounded cool” (case in point, see my above post).

 

It’s also worth noting that even the base game’s development was profoundly affected by a full-scale pandemic never mind both parts of The Ancient Gods (to the point where Reclaimed Earth was allegedly part of TAG1 instead of TAG2 and that each expansion allegedly had 5-6 levels instead of 3-4), which is part of why I’m much more lenient with the story beats of The Ancient Gods.

But maybe that’s just me.

 

I mean, the fact that id was still able to swing for the fences given all the constraints they had to work under makes the whole thing commendable in my eyes.

And to tell you the truth, I’d much rather have what id gave us in TAG2 than some standard ending where everything is exactly as it appears, or some truly out-of-character shit like “the Slayer bargains with the Dark Lord to get Daisy back, in exchange for Hell to devour as many worlds as it desires”. (Holy hell, I still can’t get over that plot “suggestion”, because that was absolutely a real thing that was suggested.)

 

Because at the very least, id tried something new with the Doom franchise (even if it didn’t quite stick the landing).

Edited October 25, 2021 by Man of Doom

[whatup876]

Making a "responsive/fix" to TAG2 may be odd if it meant retconning existing material, since that's what sort of already happens.

As in, another expansion/game still in the current lore because it'd technically do something that was already done multiple times.

It'd be easier if the next Doom game (even as a spin off) had its own lore/aesthetic and did things differently with some concepts. (not even just for the sake of compensation, but also actual experimentation and fun)

Unless the lore has this "meta irony" of "see, we're emulating the classic games' aspect of not caring that much about the story" which would be odd considering the focus and effort into making this universe.

 

Like, an actual comic book (or even Super Mario) route of "context is different but there's still recurring characters and elements" because a true unified "universe" that is already packed with rectons seems odd.

 

To me, Doom having a "universe" still feels like a side effect of modern pop culture and trends and i can't be the only one remembering Hugo Martin saying "a lot of other big franchises have deep universe" as a motivation for this.

The fact that Doom 3 was considered a mainline game despite being a different timeline felt like the id team back then saying Doom could be a franchise about trying somethings and not really tying things deeply. (because if anything, actually looking further into obscure id material and content creates a more nonsensical anthology full of mistakes and contradictions: hence a saying of "modders that overexplored such small franchises were more invested than lore Youtubers ever will be")

Even D64 having a different aesthetic and existing material like Final Doom and the phone games make me think of this.

 

If there are things that can't happen because "it would be lore breaking" then that feels like admitting that lore is an obstacle to being with, specially for a very recent features, from a different team, that's technically part of a reboot series, that already changes things from previous games, in a series that can be associated with experimentation and potential reinterpretations due to its absent story and weird presentation.

There's some ideas that could be for either experimentation, innovation or even "the cool factor" that would be considered to be "rule breaking" despite how recently new the rules are.

 

And id wouldn't think of the "DoomSlayer" with just one line of the comic alone. (since even that still has Doomguy getting hurt and running away from a Cyberdemon)

I still think its existence is partially owed to ScrewAttack's Death Battle and whatever fans tried to Chuck Norris-fy Doomguy because they couldn't bear that Master Chief was the more popular FPS green soldier to other people.

 

Simply adding new mechanics, gameplay features, designs and even story concepts or set pieces already feels like "expanding the Doomverse".

Something about what can be done with Doom and even its creative fanbase gives vibes similar to Touhou or even Dracula.

[Samuel Slayer]

I want a quake reboot as well. That being said, I don't need them to rush things with Eternal. I don't want its content updates to end anytime soon. I'd just be perfectly content with the game receiving horde mode updates for as long as they're willing.

 

I love what Id Software is doing with it but I want more than just 3 missions. I would love a sort of mission pack roster players could choose or even a freestyle mode where the player can just choose from Horde maps & Battlemode maps for a horde mode. Tbh I just want Battlemode maps for Horde Mode.

 

Battlemode was all fine and dandy but it just feels umbalanced and is just too sweaty already with level 100 players making it a chore to play. I'd rather be playing Doom 2016 Multiplayer or Quake Champions instead of that. But I love the Battlemode maps and wish Id Software did something more with them = horde mode.

 

So much potential...

 

[BillyBlaze]

Quake 1 reboot with Sandy Peterson and Hugo Martin in control.

[Man of Doom]

So after really taking the time to process it, I think I came to realize why I’ve been feeling so strongly about the Doom Eternal discourse (and more specifically, the TAG2 discourse).

 

Over the course of a couple of years, I’ve gotten to know quite a few people who work/worked at id Software (though more as casual acquaintances-in-passing rather than outright friends, if that makes sense). And from what I’ve gathered, they’re a really tightly-knit group as well as a surprisingly small development studio of like a few hundred people as opposed to the more recognized game studios have have like at least a couple of thousand people working there.

And from what I’ve also gathered, everything they do is absolutely a labor of love and they’re also diehard fans of the franchises they work on. I know that the John Romero days may never come back, but they don’t necessarily have to given this current incarnation of id.

If Romero id was OG Star Trek, today’s id is basically The Next Generation.

 

Not only that, this current generation of id is not only much younger but also much more online than past generations (even Hugo Martin regularly spends time interacting with Doom Facebook groups, even if those are an absolute cesspool of the worst imaginable Doom takes from what I’ve heard). And of course, there’s the “Marty Stratton browses Doomworld” meme.

 

 

So what I’m trying to say here is this: they’ve definitely seen your comments.

I don’t necessarily mean just you guys in particular, I mean comments in places like r/Doom, various Doom Discord servers, social media like Twitter and Instagram, etc.

 

The guys at id have seen both the best and the worst of the kinds of discourse Doom Eternal had to offer, from the crossovers with Animal Crossing to TAG2’s story, from the Mick Gordon incident to Eternal’s modding community.

 

And let’s just say that I can’t even begin to imagine how shitty it feels to be working on one of your favorite franchises in an official capacity as both a fan and a professional, only for other fans to immediately declare it as the Worst Thing Ever because it didn’t fit their exact tastes or headcanon.

(I mean, we literally just got update 6.66 complete with an official horde mode and people are bitching about how it’s not just an endless horde mode throwing 10 possessed Marauders at you at the same time while you only have the base shotgun to fend them off.)

That's not to say legitimate criticism or even a bit of nitpicking is completely unwarranted, as legitimate problems can pop up. But given the recent climate of discourse (in a more general sense) where it seems like almost nobody can agree to disagree and any amount of nuance is immediately thrown out the window, it's become surprisingly difficult to tell legitimate critiques apart from complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Hopefully, it hasn’t gotten to the point where anyone is outright replying or DMing anyone at id, laying into the latter about how Doom Eternal and TAG as-is needs to be struck from the Doom canon and to just go back to the drawing board (and to also retroactively make 2016 a hard reboot and completely excise everything with “confusing elements” like the Sentinels and Maykrs, making said sequel strictly Hell on Earth complete with nothing even remotely resembling classic Doom in regards to overall aesthetic and literally nothing else; also the Slayer is also the Betrayer because reasons).

 

Ok, rant over.

 

Yeah, I know this is just more Doom Eternal discourse, but I’m just doing what I can to finally make my peace with it.

 

Like I previously stated, I think that id’s next project should be a new singleplayer Quake title and just let Doom rest for a bit, maybe even let others handle spinoffs if they so desire.

They very much earned their rest from the Slayer’s journey for now.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Man of Doom

[whatup876]

To me, the worst of modern Doom always came off as "mmm, i don't know, are you sure?" and not complete outrage, mean laughter or stuff in the realm of negative Crowbcat videos and whatever subculture spawned from "Tortanic".

In a way, i don't mind the Doom series still having games for the sake of "newness", even if my brain has unironically been poisoned by those classic backporting/legacy mods (wonder if anyone at id ever heard of D4T, D4V or MetaDoom) and just this generic topic of videogames being like a "box with tools/toys" and the interactivity or potential. (something that feels like Doom is really being expanded on because unlike some cool mods, it means being "canon")

With id being a bigger studio, i also imagine a greater variety of opinions even if classic 90's id had its fair share of in-studio disagreements, sometimes for worse.

 

Another thing about fanbase interaction is that Doom has a lot of great stuff around it (sometimes, even important values/traditions that need to be passed to later generations or stuff that has unironic "HIRE THIS MAN" energy) but with how the internet works, some of it is overshadowed by "meh" stuff.

Like, we all remember when Brutal Doom got too much coverage and how it overshadowed other mods and even vanilla Doom but nowadays, the Isabelle crossovers and r/Doom memes makes me wonder if wads even come to people's minds when they hear "Doom fanbase".

 

And this isn't just classic Doom and the old blood, even some neat stuff from new fans can go under something else.

For example, seeing people come up with fanmade enemies or concepts for gameplay seems interesting, even if Eternal's modding is fairly young and limited.

At the same time, people got sick of arrow to the knee jokes, certain repeated Dorkly tier content and Twitter accounts that exist to post the same memes and content.

This saturation should at least inspire creativity or giving rise to more talented/interest creators and stuff. (because the problem with memes is that hating memes in itself can be a meme, leading to a "reinvention" of a status quo that feels fake, like when people started to use "le" ironically to shit on rage comics)

There's even times when actual r/Doom posters say "Doom fans have only four fucking jokes" and i'm like "dude, talk about the GOOD fan stuff" because Doom has a lot of great stuff from fans.

 

One franchise i thought Doom could be compared to was Planet of the Apes: Because it's always about an Earth overtaken by Apes but the classics involved future sci-fi and time travel, while the new ones seemed to be more about a current day Earth turned into a post apocalyptic one.

Like how classic Doom had different aesthetics and presentations but the new games went for a "nerdier" sci-fi/fantasy direction.

I guess that makes Doom 3 the Tim Burton one, where it's closer to the classic premise but with more problems or at least in a "middle area". (but what even is the Doom equivalent of the Aperaham Lincoln?)

I guess the same applies to Wolfenstein still being about Nazis but it's post WW2 in a Nazi-fied world.

So, it's not just Quake that has a messy identity.

[Captain Keen]

Bumping my own thread here. It's a couple months old, but I just saw this:

 

https://collider.com/id-software-new-game-fps/

 

"Applicants will be responsible for the visualization and conceptualization of AAA-quality sci-fi and fantasy environments, architecture, and props. Working in coordination with the Art Director, Concept and Environment Art teams, applicants will be tasked with creating fully realized environments to be utilized in both gameplay and cinematic context."

 

Sounds like... Quake 1?? Or Heretic... but with cyborgs?

[Martin-CAI]

4 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

Sounds like... Quake 1?? Or Heretic... but with cyborgs?

Sounds like anything, honestly.

[Zemini]

I just want a constant stream of Id FPS games.  Doom, Wolfenstein, Rage, Quake/Strogg and Heretic/Hexen.

 

I will take more Doom over anything else honestly.  I can settle for a Spin Off or a Prequel for Doom Eternal/2016 during the sentinel times.  Or Even a origin story about the Doomguy.  Anything Doom would be great. 

 

Quake could act as a sequel if Id wanted to officially combine the universes.  It doesn't need to be about the Doomslayer, but it needs too explore other regions of Hell that involve Shub and the lovecraftian horrors.  The Strogg can take a back seat for a bit even if they are part of the official Quake world.

 

Now that Microsoft owns Activision, that means a possible Heretic/Hexen game or reboot.

 

Rage 3 feels a long ways off if ever.

 

Wolfenstein III seems to be in development hell unfortunately.

[NoOne]

I'd appreciate them getting their arses off of social media and actually finishing Quake Champions ffs

[BGreener]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:09 AM, Martin-CAI said:

Sounds like anything, honestly.

“…sci-fi and fantasy environments, architecture, and props”, the newest Doom falls under that definition, too. It really could be anything.

[Wad overdose]

I hope it will be quake I would like them to continue  story of ranger where it was more detailed to tell about the gods from qc and continue the story of Matthew Kane what happened to him after quake 4, and I remembered that before doom 2016 there was doom 3 bfg edition  Now released remaster of the first quake has been released, which may hint at a new game in the series?.

[Shibainumaster]

I want ID to make a Quake game, preferablly in the style of quake 1. Can't get enough of that athmosphere

.

[MemeMind]

I brought this up in another thread but I would love to see something like a Enemy Territory Doom Wars 

 

heres my statement in the thread im talking about. 

Quote

I would really love to see a Enemy Territory Doom Wars. Wolf ET and ETQW are seriously underrated gems that deserve some sort of recognition. 

Something like the ARC vs the UAC Cultists at the beginning of the Earth Invasion would be interesting. We have some ideas of how cultist troops would look from Doom 2016's MP. From a lore perspective It would give more information on the Cultists, the ARC and the invasion, personally that's what I care about more than anything in the lore. I also think seeing more vehicles would be awesome (I know hugo loves his cars and mechs). Finally I just think its prime time for a Doom Spinoff after the success of Doom Eternal. 

 

[whatup876]

I wonder if returning weapon mods or rearranged ones would still be a thing, because i watched this video about the lock on burst:

 

Also, what about non-first person minigames like a bullet hell/shmup for Doom? Like R-TYPE or Gradius where Doomguy pilots a ship (either UAC or Sentinel) and you fight against either familiar or new demons, in a field of projectiles and patterns and all.

Could even be an excuse for Hell themed space-ships inspired by both TNT's background and Immora with crazier twists and weirdness for Hell's aesthetics.

 

On 1/24/2022 at 10:45 PM, Zemini said:

Or Even a origin story about the Doomguy.

Like the classic Doomguy?

[BGreener]

Very informative video there, whatup876.

 

For the next Doom, I want to see some weapon mechanics similar to Unreal’s shock rifle functionality. For those who don’t know, it has two fire modes: Projectile and hitscan, and you can shoot at and explode the orb projectile with the hitscan fire.

 

Unless I missed one, I think Ultrakill is the only other shooter I know of that’s done something like this. I’d love more weapon interactions like this in more shooters.

[Kute]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:38 PM, BGrieber said:

Very informative video there, whatup876.

 

For the next Doom, I want to see some weapon mechanics similar to Unreal’s shock rifle functionality. For those who don’t know, it has two fire modes: Projectile and hitscan, and you can shoot at and explode the orb projectile with the hitscan fire.

 

Unless I missed one, I think Ultrakill is the only other shooter I know of that’s done something like this. I’d love more weapon interactions like this in more shooters.

That sounds pretty cool. A game like doom isn't limited to COD realistic weapons, they could do some real cool burst dps mechanics

 

Lock-on is definitely OP. I was annoyed when I first started really giving er because I realized each chainsaw is a couple free kills in rockets and it didn't feel right. Frankly I probably haven't killed a dreadknight with anything but rockets in a couple playthroughs now

 

I enjoyed Doom:eternals wacky lore - but I don't like the slayer being in a casket like some bizarre vampire

 

[whatup876]

On the subject of Doom taking ideas from other games like Unreal, i'd unironically love to see something like the Unreal Redeemer, just to see Doomguy being able to directly pilot a rocket to hit enemies in a far away area or even the Flak Cannon, with its own version of bouncing shotgun pellets.

Some of these ideas may not fit the fast speed focused "Doom dance" but regardless, these are the kind of ideas that still remind you of classic FPS and even if a Doom game ends up "tactical", it'd still be a crazy demonic sci-fi/fantasy setting and nothing triyng to be super military realistic. (because aside from fantasy/Hell elements, you either got the super modern UAC aesthetic or the very outdated UAC of the 90's Doom games)

 

When it comes to Hellish tech like classic textures, Immora, Cultist theme or even Hell on Earth, i wonder if a good media to inspire more of that stuff could be the manga Blame!.

Something about Doom having more twisted level scenarios and atmosphere, that could sell how bizarre Hell's home and effect on Earth could be.

Like architecture that is modified to the point no human or manmade technology could be responsible.

I don't think extremely huge megastructures are a thing in Doom's universe, but i like to think Hell should be capable of randomly generating weird looking rooms and places, as if demons had their own Oblige/Obhack/Slige machine that even tries to surpass Sandy Petersen's surrealism.

 

21 minutes ago, Kute said:

I enjoyed Doom:eternals wacky lore - but I don't like the slayer being in a casket like some bizarre vampire 

You mean the TAG2 ending or just the general idea of the Slayer's tomb?

I said this a lot of times but whenever i think of Doom "lore" and "what if we had to fix it", i feel like it'd be easier and more practical if a Doom game just had its own version of a story instead of building a bigger universe, that will always have some retcons and inconsistencies.

[igg]

Doom Eternal was released ~ 2 years ago. Do you think id Software will announce their new project at this year's QuakeCon? 

[whatup876]

Maybe.

 

Regardless of how a Doom 6 could be, i just want to see new things applied to Doom, so it doesn't matter if it can't top Eternal.

I mean, people still love to point out things 2016 may do better and vice versa. (similar to how Doom 2 is seen as better in core gameplay but weaker in level design when compared to 1)

I like when each game has its own ups and downs that tier lists ranking each just end up as personal opinion.

 

Though it would be funny if, between more Doom or Quake, id says "fuck this" and splits the difference by making it the same game: DOOM: QUAKE or something.

 

Also, i once wrote something about a giant "worm" enemy in Doom like a caterpiller or centipede, as Doom's version of the Wiggler from Mario:

* it's made up of seperate spheres that look like brains with cybernetic legs (like a variant of Arachnos) and they are organized as a line, as they pretend to be a single worm moving around floors, walls and ceilings.

* there's like 6 or 7 spheres.

* the spheres as seperate yet very close; killing one makes it so the other spheres still act naturally and even move to close the gap left by a missing sphere.

* as it moves, it leaves a trail of damaging hazard and can even shoot basic projectiles from the turrets on the legs.

The idea of a large centipede demon is kinda like an observation on how Arachnotrons rarely attach to ceilings and Whiplash's design, but also a fanmade SMM redesign by ValentrisRRock and i guess the idea of more "cyber brains" that represen other games. (i mean, spiders aside Eternal's Arachno kinda looks like a scorpion too)

It'd also be an enemy tied to level design.

[Stoltzmann]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:52 AM, igg said:

Doom Eternal was released ~ 2 years ago. Do you think id Software will announce their new project at this year's QuakeCon? 

You forgot about 2 major DLCs. They finished working on eternal only one year ago, and later Id released major updates with master levels, horde mode, battlemode 2.0 etc. There is no way they are going to announce anything this year maaaaaybe next year at best. Doom franchise is not call of duty, Id won't release shitty game every year but rather good game every 5 years.

[whatup876]

Gee, how many unused animations are in Eternal?

I like the idea of the Pain Elemental moving sideways while summoning a soul because it seems like they were almost gonna make the souls a bit seperate, even if that's just how i see it.

Like, just have them act on their own while the PE flies away.

 

edit as of February 5:

Emerson Tung has been promoted as Lead Concept Artist.

Also, yesterday Mark Diaz left id after 8 years as a programmer.

Edited February 5, 2022 by whatup876 : adding more

[DoomBoomer]

I would love to see a reboot of Quake. Somehow a mix of sci-fi technology, medieval architecture and Lovecraftian horror worked so well.

[Zaxxon]

Why do you guys want a remake of Quake 1, when that was just a most technologically advanced spiritual successor to Doom? If they're going to make another Quake in the style of the original, might as well be another Doom game and not Quake at all. At least Quake 2 went for something original and had an interesting antagonist... it was pure science fiction and is the reason the series will be remembered. Let Quake be the sci-fi series, and Doom be the dark fantasy occult series. Quake 1 didn't even give you any proper lore... "oh here's this mysterious bad creature that sends monsters through our portals, go and stop it". And so you did... In four different dimensions that all looked exactly the same, with random, nonsensical combinations of sci-fi locations and castles, and with zero context explaining what the difference between the dimensions is. If they remake that today, how different could it be? It will be just another Doom game with a different title - big evil sends monsters through portals (again). No thanks, better takes us back to Stroggos.

[whatup876]

Both Doom and Quake may be "sci-fi and fantasy" but a difference is how one is about Hell and the other includes Lovecraft elements.

And there's some specific parts of classic Doom's aesthetics that Eternal didn't really bring back.

(i also always thought that the Sentinel would make more sense in Quake than Doom)

But even an enemy like the Carcass has a design that looks like a Strogg.

Then there's stuff like gameplay elements and features.

I'm obviously at a point where i don't mind seeing Doom absorb Quake and some other FPS series, but i feel like most of these games still had specific differences and traits that shouldn't be looked down upon.

 

If we go by the Quake 1 mission packs, a bit of 3 and Champions, that could at least help as more additional material for the Q1 part of the series. (even if some ideas still end up in a Doom title)

 

I've once seen someone say that, for Quake to stand out from Doom, it has to focus more on exploration, while Doom is about speed.

In a way, it's ironic because Quake 1 seems to prioritize speed more than Doom 1/2. (and most of the arena format we got may be a result of the games not having a format like the classic games)

But there's still an interest for what Quake was going for with its aesthetic or theme.

Even Doom Eternal being more cartoony and colorfull only makes it a bit more different from Quake in that regard.

And like i once said, there seems to be more people interesting in Quake 1 singleplayer from its mods than the arena multiplayer portion.