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Captain Keen

What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

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one day, it may not be today, or this year, or heck, maybe even this decade, Ranger will join his brethren with Blaskowicz and Doomguy with a new entry worthy of a comeback, and not being in a dead overwatch-arena shooter hybrid

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Clearly it needs to be Doom Finale, where you as Hugo Martin must defeat Hugo Martin to shut down the Doomslayer timeline.

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2 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

Personally, I think they should "let go" Hugo Martin.

The /r/doom army will never forgive this.

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I think we need to revive the Quake Champions that we know first C:

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Doom2: Hell on Earth

Doom64: the Absolution

Doom 3

Doom (2016)

Doom Eternal...


"Absolute Doom"....


""The Living End""...

"Doomed: Dance With the Devil"

Edited by LoatharMDPhD

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On 3/3/2021 at 4:51 PM, Captain Keen said:

Or... Commander Keen in 3D with ray tracing. The most photoreal Dopefish ever created!

actually, that sounds like a good concept!

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On 10/13/2023 at 5:02 AM, Hellektronic said:

Personally, I think they should "let go" Hugo Martin. I cite Battlemode as the main reason why his tenure needs to be up.


Sure, that was a risky gamble that didn't pay off. But developers shying away from taking risks (or being prevented from doing so by the suits) is what gets us endless iterations of the same stale CoD-BLOPS-Modern-Borefare clones. I would rather have Doom be something that developers are willing to take risks with, rather than just playing it safe.

Edited by NoXion

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On 3/4/2021 at 7:40 PM, Silhouette 03 said:

I think they killed that project.... 

Sometimes, dead is better.

I'd much rather not see anything to do with a franchise i love than to see it burn a second time.
Once was enough as is.

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13 hours ago, NoXion said:


Sure, that was a risky gamble that didn't pay off. But developers shying away from taking risks (or being prevented from doing so by the suits) is what gets us endless iterations of the same stale CoD-BLOPS-Modern-Borefare clones. I would rather have Doom be something that developers are willing to take risks with, rather than just playing it safe.

Yea, this. I didnt like battlemode either, or some of the changes doom eternal made, but Noxi is right. If they stop taking gambles then we'll be stuck with boring crap again. The only way to find good things sometimes is to keep taking chances. Not everything can be a winner and not taking chances will lead to complacency and the flattening of artistic merit.

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Something i once said is that a new Doom should look cel-shaded or stylized to feel like a comic book because Eternal could've reached that.

But also because it reminds me of people complaining about the game looking cartoony: is it really just that it was "cartoony" or that it wasn't cartoony in the right way?


Because you look at interviews and stuff, you see a mix of weird references like He-Man (not only because it felt goofy, but also because it felt like id was using Robot Chicken as some sort of guide) and interesting ones like RoboCop but the art style is still very modern.

A phrase that someone said and still lives in my mind is "it aims to be 90's when old Doom aims to be 80's" and it made me realize that classic Doom does look 80-ish.

If the box art wasn't for a 1993 innovative classic game, it could have been for a sci-fi book or even movie poster, because of the simple designs.

Even if the Cacodemon is a DND copy/trace, it is a sign of Doom wearing its influence really heavily. (since a lot of iconic gaming series like MGS are noticeable for copying stuff from other mediums)


And a specific example: Hunter from Quake 3 Arena is inspired by Simon Bisley's Full Cirkle.


With Eternal wanting to be "nerdy", i wondered if Heavy Metal comics, 2000AD or even Druillet ever came to id's minds when looking up inspirations for Eternal's art direction.

Because at the same time, 2016's Hell used Beksinski as a reference and i feel like we could've gotten further with that.

I remember an image that was "what we want vs what we got" where it compared artwork for various sci-fi/fantasy novels/movies/etc and screenshots of modern games.

Yeah, it's probably another arguement bait image but it did made me wonder: with how many games that took influence from certain things (to the point of occasional plagiarism), i think technology reached a point that in a way, we could mimic the aesthetic or "feel" of a cool 70's sci-fi illustration.


But even if game devs could in theory mimic certain aesthetics, it comes down to some factors.

A director that has specific preferences/references.

An artist that aims to use those inspirations heavily and avoiding certain trends.

And ingame artists and modellers that try to tweak the game's assets accordingly.

I guess an indie game would have it easier than an AAA game, whether it's because of a smaller graphical scale or the absense of suits going "no, you gotta make it look AAA enough".


In general, "frame of reference" is interesting specially with media that technically borrows from other media.

It's part of why i think there's always stuff that can be done with Doom.

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I've never understood the complaints about Doom Eternal being "cartoony". Did these people never play the first two games? I don't know how goofy it was intended to come across at the time, because back then I was a young child who never played the games in question, but to my adult eyes in the here and now, classic Doom's depiction of Hell feels closer to a kid's plastic Halloween costume, more than anything seriously intended to be frightening, like an actor's makeup in an 18-rated straight-faced horror movie. The classic games have a cool aesthetic don't get me wrong, but it just doesn't come across as genuinely terrifying when viewed through a screen, even though the implications are objectively disturbing and would be harrowing to anyone actually experiencing them.

Doom 3 and to a certain extent Doom 2016 are the exceptions, their greater graphical fidelity helps and their aesthetic presentation is no doubt darker and more gritty, but even those games have their moments that are more spoopy than spooky. Doom 3 relies too much on the kind of cheap tricks found in a fairground house of horrors, and in Doom 2016 I think that any horror elements present are seriously undercut by the fact the player character is already established to be the kind of badass who makes demons wet their keks in fear.

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I always wondered if people had more to say but had a weak vocabolary/point of reference or just had basic observations when it comes to discussing Eternal like that.

Because when 2016 came out, people already said the demons looked like "Dota 2" and Doomguy looked like Master Chief.

You can even say that Eternal is not cartoony enough because the art style is still detailed and professional while classic Doom was id taking photos of toys.


To me, "horror in Doom" is less about pitch black darkness or scare jumps and more about interesting art direction, specially because Doom's Hell was always unique and has potential to be more.

It's why some of D3 designs will grow on you when you consider their weirdness like the Bruiser.

2016 sort of had a limited Hell and put a rather "shared biology" assthetic with the chitin focus, then had lore explaining demons like how the UAC studied them and even created/modified some.

Immora had "Hell tech" but for the sake of a civilization instead of the weird stuff in D1/2 or even borrowing something from Cultist Hell.


I can see that sort of limiting Hell, specially in the games about how powerfull the protagonist is.


It's part of how you'll find centuries old illustrations of demons and Hell with interesting designs.

It even makes me think Doom can be easier for horror than Quake because Hell can be seen as a concept "that knows it's evil" while Quake being about Lovecraft means some people want more than just tentacles or eyes. (at least if the tentacles don't resemble those of real life animals).


Part of why people even argue about "what is Doom" is because the creators, by not caring much about story or lore at the time, ended up creating a weird presentation.

You can cherrypick specific parts of the game and think it's the main thing or something.

Because one thing is most people ignoring the story or setting, another is looking at things and realizing it's a mess because the actual creators didn't took it seriously.

But that also leads to creativity and fun stuff, making Doom more versatile.

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I know it's more Raven Software, but I'd love a modern Heretic 3.

iD still hold publishing rights to the first three games, interestingly. I think it would be Activision *shudder* for any future releases.



In 2014, Raven co-founder Brian Raffel had expressed interest in making a sequel to the Heretic series. Rather than licensing it to other developers, he wants Raven to do it themselves.


It's been almost 10 years, I'm not sure if this will ever happen, though

Edited by CravenCoyote

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Does Raven even have the same people anymore?

With Doom, most people like the new direction, but a lot of these modern FPS games sort of borrow elements from each others' franchises.

Because a lot of these games were originally defined by specific gameplay and engine features.

Which is why some people think that a new Quake SP game could have its chances hindered by the existence of the new Doom's.


Because there's also elements from old games not in the new ones, so maybe a new Quake could have an enemy functioning like the classic Arch-vile just because Eternal didn't have one.

There's also the matter of whether or not adding certain RPG elements to the Serpent Riders series affects its identity, if one were to compare it to other games.


Another thing is aesthetics and themes, since again, Doom went through different art styles and even with occasional throwbacks, there's some stuff not back.

Because i remember seeing someone's redesigns of Hexen enemies that looked cool but people would obviously call it "trendy" even if the designs are still recognizeable.


With that in mind, i always thought it was safer to make Doom "tribute" those games by having mechanical references (as in, taking their features) instead of bringing back those franchises.


I also recall something about Romero wanting to do a third series like Hectic or Hecatomb?

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A reboot of Quake keeping the feel of the original quake 1. It'd probably be called QUAKE just like the doom reboot was called DOOM.
I'd also love a classic doom 1-64 remake similar to what Night Dive did with System Shock

Edited by Snake16

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On 10/23/2023 at 6:58 AM, NoXion said:

I've never understood the complaints about Doom Eternal being "cartoony".


Earth zombies make a dog chew toy squeak sound when you make them accordion, which is literally what happens to somebody in a Looney Tunes short when an anvil falls on top of them. When you grab enemies to do a glory kill, they make (admittedly hilarious, but also tonally goofy) faces. Cacos can eat bombs and blow up their stomachs like dodongos, and spin off into the distance like a deflating balloon if you berserk them. The main character has He-Man muscles, and his evil Marauder counterpart is clearly made like a He-Man action figure that uses all the same body parts and just has a different head. Hopefully this non-exhaustive list helps.


Hugo Martin himself cited "Saturday Morning cartoons" as an influence he was trying to consciously channel so there's really nothing to debate.

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7 hours ago, DiceByte said:

I want a remake of the classic Doom games

Just seems redundant. Leave that to the community, not that it hasn't been done already!

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I'd prefer if a remake of OG Doom was just 20 levels where each one was their own take on E1M1/Hangar.

Like any possible interpretation or reimagining possible of the level because of how Doom's appeal is how it can be interpretated differently, specially if one version acknowledges the blue carpet floors but another doesn't etc.

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9 hours ago, DiceByte said:

I want a remake of the classic Doom games

We kinda already have 3 remakes (Doom 64, Doom 3 & Doom 2016 + Eternal).

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This is of course based on "what if" story scenarios but an idea i had was: What if the Slayer was a "form" Doomguy could turn into at times?

This is based on some stuff:

  • That stuff i’ve posted about Eternal having expansions where you play as either a UAC soldier or Sentinel soldier, to explore new weapons/items/etc ideas in both gameplay and theme/lore.
  • Videogame characters like Mario or Sonic having forms like power ups or Super Sonic etc.
  • Maybe how Hugo Martin almost treats the Slayer like a superhero.
  • Something like Heretic’s Tome of Power.
  • A way to please both sides of the fanbase: Those who think Doomguy is better as an imperfect marine that still struggles while the others love that Doomguy became a demigod feared by Hell.

Imagine a Doomguy that still works for the UAC and has a lot of UAC guns and tech but can at times turn into a Doomslayer form where his weapons, armor etc change to resemble Sentinel stuff.

Maybe it could require him being angry enough or some sort of artifact/power up but it’d be like a more powerfull form that can be activated in certain circumstances and probably less common than his UAC state.

(Or instead of being timed, make it that the Slayer form has some resource tied to health like if he “dies”, he just reverts back to the Doomguy)

They’d both have large, diverse arsenals and a way to make it work is to consider how stuff worked over the games and even specific upgrades and runes in 2016/Eternal.

One is more “tactical” while the other is more “upfront, brutal”.

This also fits the “you gotta earn the power fantasy” statement from Hugo: You can be the Slayer as long as you’re good enough; Or else, your Slayer form “dies” and you go back to a less powerfull but still capable Doom marine.

(maybe this could fit with that idea i had of a buff system for demons where they get new attacks)


I even have some ideas on how this could play out:



UAC armor works like classic Doom (minimizes some damage) while Slayer armor is like 2016/Eternal (prevents damage from affecting health until it’s over).

Slayer armor also receives less damage from stuff like slime and lava.



UAC guy does not have the equipment launcher and even if he carries a lot of different types of inventory items, they are limited like ammo.

Frag Grenades are basic and look like Doom 3’s.

Also has the Hologram and maybe some other UAC tech from 2016 Multiplayer.

This means he can at least be “tactical” while the Slayer form is more “upfront” and brutal.

Slayer has equipment launcher and the items obviously recharge over time.

Maybe the Frag Grenades could drop scatter bombs.

There’s also the Flame Belch, Ice Bomb and maybe some new items.

Instead of a Hologram, he gets a ghostly copy of himself that can fight even if limited.



UAC guy has basic fists, maybe he could have like a third punch that is stronger than the first 2, if he had a continuous punch attack.

Slayer can obviously Glory Kill and Blood Punch.



UAC guy has the chainsaw, maybe make it so the main fire is based off classic Doom and the alt fire requires gas to instakill for ammo.

Slayer has a Crucible (Still a chainsaw) that has both a more complex melee system and can instakill enemies at the cost of ammo.



UAC guy has the cut Eternal pistol with the “burst” alt fire and use of bullet ammo.

Slayer has a Sentinel theme version of the infinite ammo pistol from 2016.


Combat Shotgun

UAC gets a basic shotgun with some forms of Explosive Shots and Charged Burst

Slayer’s shotgun has Full Auto and Sticky Bombs.


Super Shotgun

UAC guy’s SSG is basic, its alt fire is shooting the barrels individually.

Slayer obviously gets the Meat Hook.



UAC guy could have like an okay-enough Precision Bolt and non-upgraded Micro Missiles

Slayer’s rifle has a very upgraded Precision Bolt and Micro Missiles.



UAC chaingun has wind up before/after firing.

Alt fires are a Turret Mode that slows you down and its Energy Shield is not upgraded.

Slayer’s chaingun has no wind ups.

Both Turret Mode and Energy Shield are upgraded, while the latter can deflect enemy attacks.


Rocket Launcher

UAC rockets are shot at a slower pace like in later games.

Lock-on Burst only allows one rocket at a time and Remote Detonation doesn’t have upgrades (except maybe that flare that is triggered when a rocket is nearby a demon).

Slayer’s rockets are shot at a faster pace like in classic Doom.

Lock-on Burst can lock onto multiple targets at once and shoot multiple rockets accordingly, while Remote Detonation’s blast can falter enemies.


Plasma Rifle

UAC Plasma Rifle has that classic Doom “recoil”.

Heat Blast only works at the front like Eternal’s while the Stun Bomb is there.

Slayer’s Plasma Rifle doesn’t have that “recoil”.

Heat Blast can both attack all directions and temporarily buff projectiles while Microwave Beam can split to target multiple enemies and its blast stuns nearby enemies.


Gauss Cannon/Ballista

Gauss Cannon seems more powerfull but it’s a bit slower.

Its blast can also hurt if you’re too close.

Its alt fires are Precision Bolt and Siege Mode.

Ballista still has the Destroyer Blade and Arbalest.



UAC’s BFG is powerfull enough to have that Quake 2 tendril system. but is also like D3 where it can hurt the user if they’re not carefull and requires charging.

Maybe it could share ammo with the Plasma Rifle.

Maybe the Sentinel BFG doesn’t harm the player, has a more unique ammo pool and it also has a version of a Heat Blast to represent that classic Doom tracer system.



UAC guy can still double jump since those boots are technically UAC creation.

Slayer can dash and jump a bit more, maybe.

One clearly has a bit more access to some level secrets than the other.


Power up interactions

Any power up can stay regardless if you’re either the marine or the Slayer and if you become one or the other during it.

Berserk can make UAC guy’s fists deal more damage and then lose a bit less damage but still a bit buffed until a level ends.

Slayer’s Berserk is obviously “rip and tear” mode.

Blursphere makes UAC guy make it so enemies become innacurate and confused while Slayer becomes fully invisible maybe.

Haste/Overdrive gives infinite ammo to Slayer.

Invulnerability could make the Slayer deflect enemy attacks whenever he’s hit.



Maybe a neat detail is how ammo is either UAC or Sentinel theme depending on which state the Doomguy is in.



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When do you think we'll hear about id's next game? I've been kinda out of the loop, has the rumor mill suggested what is next?

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I think they could stand to stretch their wings a bit in terms of creating a new setting and franchise. Problem is they're already considered to be at an apex of sorts for first person shooters, and will be subject to significant hype and scrutiny regardless of what they come out with. It's gonna be a hurdle to meet the hype.


Maybe id could show Bethesda proper how Starfield should have been done. If nothing else, they'd give it a saving grace in combat gameplay, similar to Andromeda.


The suggestions for Commander Keen are of course, 100% agreeable to me but... there's not a huge interest in it from the dev side I think. It could make for an exceptionally fun first person platformer I think, like Mirror's Edge only in far more alien environments, against far more alien enemies, and with a long range taser. Something focusing on the mobility over the shooting could be a good direction to explore after Eternal.

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The idea of new IP's is interesting specially since they're a different team from the founding guys.

Because one wonders if the main reason why anyone would join an established studio like id isn't to get to work in the likes of Doom or Quake, since we also have EmptyVessel, which includes people that worked on new id titles, even Mick Gordon.


Then there's stuff like "what if the Night Sentinel could've been for something else before Doom" which would be comparable to how everyone knows Quake 2 wasn't named like that.

But even moreso, if a new IP ends up with stuff someone wishes was rather attached to the Doom name.


As for Keen: Just look up any modern platformer that exists, be it AAA related like maybe Crash or even indie titles.

Like the guys behind A Hat in Time could've been used as help at least.

And with the MS/Acti stuff, you'd think the people that worked on the latest Crash games could be great for a new Keen.

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Posted (edited)

Get back the Wolfenstein rights and make a proper sequel to RTCW

Admittedly TNO/TOB were great games and the 2009 one was decent but with the TNC starting to introduce political themes (and terrible writing aside from that) and YB being, well yk...

I think it's time for id to make another Wolf game that's not taking itself as seriously as some of the later installments are.


Aside from that, Keen getting proper attention would also be nice


On 12/2/2023 at 12:59 AM, Cruduxy Pegg said:

We kinda already have 3 remakes (Doom 64, Doom 3 & Doom 2016 + Eternal).

I mean 64, 2016 and Eternal are sequels

Doom 3 tho could probably be argued as a D1 remake yeah

Edited by The Doommer

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Posted (edited)

Id is working on Doom or Quake.  I doubt they are working on a new IP.  Making a first person Commander Keen would be laughable - that game belongs as a platformer only.


Some suggested Id is working on Hexen, but that would mean they were working on it BEFORE the buy out which i doubt.  i wouldn't mind another Hexen however, but not at the expense of a new Doom or Quake.  Maybe give that game back to the Raven.


As far as Wolf 3 goes, that game is under development (hell?) at Machine games.  Hopefully we see it shadow drop at some point but I doubt it.

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