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Captain Keen

What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

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Controversial opinion, maybe, but DOOM and DOOM II remastered. Same old gameplay, same old levels, 3D modern graphics. All old weapons behaving in the same way(BFG uses 40 cells and shares ammo with Plasma Rifle), no weapon mods, no new demons, just the same old DOOM II stuff with new graphics.

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5 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

Yeah that's what I had heard. But the horror I felt watching that trailer will live on forever

Aye. The art style and the fact that they made a platformer franchise into a turn based battler that will probably be monetized heavily put me off right from the get go. Nice way to show a middle finger to your fans. John Carmack expressed interest in being involved with the IP after Zenimax was bought by Microsoft, however. That could lead to something fruitful. 

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46 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I see people asking for a new classic Quake, but really, what would it be besides a reskinned Doom Eternal? 

 

That is indeed a good question id will need to answer.

 

For one, I think it'll have to focus more on horror than new Doom did which was so relentless, and have a different pace. But they could pull it off, I'm sure.

 

4 hours ago, Sotenga said:

However... it seems Quake Champions basically is Quake V, and boy howdy, that's a game I don't see mentioned anymore at all. Does that game even have a scene anymore? 

 

It still has its player base, but it never really gained momentum, so now I guess it just "exists".

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i want a quake reboot that combines both the love craft themes of the first with the strogg of the second

i truly think it can work we just need the right director for that

but honestely a new ip would be the best thing to happen

hoping that microsoft doesnt make id create new halo games would be cool but id has its own design filosofy and many of its aspects are contarian to what make halo great (and vice versa)

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I guess a good way to "justify" the cancelled Doom 4 would be making it "skillfull and smart" almost like a Hideous Destructor thing.

Like the opposte of 2016/Eternal but still fun and challenging enough to fill a certain spot.

While also fixing some of Doom 3's problems and even be more creative with the art style and art direction, to be "less COD" but also not really relying in 2016/Eternal art style.

Like, a bit of edge and horror could be needed.

That DeimosRemus artist that drew a bunch of creepy Doom redesigns is one of the examples of something i think could fit a grittier Doom.

We could also add ideas that could fit Doom but just not the 2016/Eternal Doom.

The "Doom dance" arena combat style also has its limits.

 

Speaking of experimentation, i also thought of different executions or redesigns of pre-existing ideas.

Like how Doom's arsenal and enemy roster keeps appearing but also to other ideas.

Like an alt take on a Doom Heaven or different designs and stories for characters like Hayden.

I once imagined Samuel Hayden with wheels and a turret but i wonder if he could have different robot bodies, some of which that he could use to fight you in practive/tutorial modes.

 

The fact that a modern Quake could be "fantasy and sci-fi" combined is probably another reason for classic Doom textures and sprites to be remastered, because there's still a lot about classic Doom that could make Doom more unique.

Otherwise, Doom and Quake overlap at times, sometimes against their favors, even if their identities were never thought truly that much, like they were accidental and full of inconvenient stuff.

With Lovecraft and abstraction in general, that could require a lot of creativity and impressive tech too.

 

57 minutes ago, Pompeji said:

Controversial opinion, maybe, but DOOM and DOOM II remastered. Same old gameplay, same old levels, 3D modern graphics. All old weapons behaving in the same way(BFG uses 40 cells and shares ammo with Plasma Rifle), no weapon mods, no new demons, just the same old DOOM II stuff with new graphics.

Besides the amount of fan attempts that may or may not have failed this, current id is also a different team and it's usually weird Doom nerds that try to know too much about Doom's setting.

We probably don't have another "Tim Willits misremembers the Archvile's name" or "Doom 3 armor refered to as spare mags" moments but with people like Decino and MarphyBlack knowing weird details/trivia or mods like Doom Delta, MetaDoom and Samsara, this would be another reason for id to use the fanbase as reference or resource.

 

Levels and textures are also too abstract, you might as well create multiple interpretations instead of just one. (not just FIREBLU)

Besides the "black gloves vs brown gloves" part and other inconsistencies, you can still think of the "classic" QC Doom armor being a bit different from the 1993 cover and still think there could be another attempt at a remastered classic Doomguy armor.

His face in Eternal is also even more different than the one in QC or most fan attempts.

Partially because there are aspects of classic Doom/id art style not present in the Eternal art style.

 

Tech is another part too, since the original games not only have multiple entities present in a map, they also let you quicksave/quickload and then there's the automap, although there are more 3D games that don't have a problem about this.

Eternal's engine is well developed but i still think idtech 7 has limits not present in the OG games or even some source ports. (the latter coming from a culture of modifying existing stuff and open source stuff)

 

I thought you could at least "seperate" stuff while creating many interpretations of a certain area/room/enemy/item/weapon/texture/prop/sound/effect/music etc.

Like how Eternal brings back some classic designs instead of trying to be "Doom 2 in HD" literally.

I also thought actual Quake-like models of Build Engine style of level architecture would make more sense than actual AAA graphics.

Doom has an art style that seems like a messy accident and the setting was more faithfully expanded in some mods and assets.

 

Speaking of studying the classic Doom art style, that includes looking at other classic id titles, most alpha/beta assets (meaning they should let Romero release what else is left to release) and potentially avoiding the modern trends in the new games.

From the more "advanced" tech to the chittin anatomy in most demon designs.

Different eras, teams, influences, tech etc.

Even the artwork used for Sigil shows how Romero still thinks of Doom Hell compared to the new Doom universe.

That one /vr/ phrase of "it's trying to be 90's when Doom was originally 80's" sort of plays here.

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1 hour ago, IrOn7HuB said:

Take note that the cancelled Doom 4 did Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal great because of its gameplay aspects. It wasn't meet up to their standards, because, okay. Bethesda expects to sell big things, while id expected to sell an experience by creating the reimagining of Doom II since the very beginning of development. Like Doom 3 was for Doom 1.

 

Precisely. It wasn't up to their standards. Hugo said that it didn't 'feel like Doom'. So they scrapped/sacrificed Doom 4 to get the elements necessary to make 2016 & Doom Eternal. It was a 'taking away all that which was not Doom' which gave us the gold that we have today.

 

Quote

 

Take note that any Doom fan would buy anything related to Doom no matter if there are things different and new added to them. It's still Doom. You kill demons in it.

 

"DOOM fans, they are not like Disney fans. If DOOM fans don't like what you've done, they'll burn your house down." - Mick Gordon

 

 

Quote

I am glad we got better modern "Doom" games, but after 9 years since Doom 4 was cancelled, I acknowledge that its sacrifice on being cancelled shouldn't be in vain and the project should be surfaced so fans can play the Doom game that tried to be.

 

It wasn't in vain. It gave us Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. Sacrifice well worth it. 

 

Again, if the studio themselves didn't feel that (Call of) Doom 4 felt like Doom, why should they release it to the public with their name stamped on it? Clearly it was not up to their standards and vision, otherwise they would've released it.


With that said, id will do what they wish, and I trust that they'll do right with the game(s).

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2 hours ago, Pompeji said:

Controversial opinion, maybe, but DOOM and DOOM II remastered. Same old gameplay, same old levels, 3D modern graphics. All old weapons behaving in the same way(BFG uses 40 cells and shares ammo with Plasma Rifle), no weapon mods, no new demons, just the same old DOOM II stuff with new graphics.

 

I actually would love to see this, but I feel like it would be more of a Nightdive type of project. I wouldn't want id to spend years on this, though I would love to see them create a FPS with the mechanics of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal but the open level design of the original games. You could still have glory kills and all of that, but it'd move away from closed arenas. I'd also love to see monster in-fighting in a new game and better AI.

 

So essentially, mixing the best of both worlds. The open level design and monster in-fighting of the OG, with the shooting mechanics, glory kills and fully three dimensional spaces of the new games. I would also love the classic 3 episode design with 27 levels.

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4 minutes ago, Captain Keen said:

 

I actually would love to see this, but I feel like it would be more of a Nightdive type of project. I wouldn't want id to spend years on this, though I would love to see them create a FPS with the mechanics of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal but the open level design of the original games. You could still have glory kills and all of that, but it'd move away from closed arenas. I'd also love to see monster in-fighting in a new game and better AI.

 

So essentially, mixing the best of both worlds. The open level design and monster in-fighting of the OG, with the shooting mechanics, glory kills and fully three dimensional spaces of the new games. I would also love the classic 3 episode design with 27 levels.

 

Episode 1: Knee-Deep in the Dead

Episode 2: Shores of Hell

Episode 3: Inferno

Episode 4: Thy Flesh Consumed

Episode 5: SIGIL

Episode 6: Hell on Earth(Doom II's 32 maps)

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1 minute ago, Captain Keen said:

I actually would love to see this, but I feel like it would be more of a Nightdive type of project. I wouldn't want id to spend years on this, though I would love to see them create a FPS with the mechanics of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal but the open level design of the original games. You could still have glory kills and all of that, but it'd move away from closed arenas. I'd also love to see monster in-fighting in a new game and better AI.

That's almost what mods like D4D, D4T, D4V, EoA, Meta ect sort of do.

I also feel like better AI could depend on the enemy type.

Because sometimes, dumb enemies can benefit from simplitic but unique gameplay roles or how they're used in a level.

So, have both.

 

Doom also had a fanbase that did so much with the series, there's probably a lot of people that has that "Nintendo, hire this man" energy but non-ironically.

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2 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Another Strogg space war Quake.
I see people asking for a new classic Quake, but really, what would it be besides a reskinned Doom Eternal? 

id Software focused on fast and immersive gameplay in Doom Eternal. Quake was fast, raw and brutal. It's the next logical step after returning to id Softwares original gameplay direction. 

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I haven't thought of a Quake 1 reboot but many people want it, so I guess yes lol 
 

23 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

Or... Commander Keen in 3D with ray tracing.

Dope idea, I think there's a 3D Commander Keen game made in Unity, but it's still in-development as I remember.

 

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Posted (edited)

You could do some neat things with a Quake 1 reboot, playing on the time hopping potentional of Slipgates. Perhaps send the player through 1920's Arkham or Innsmouth,  or other alternative histories with a playful Lovecraft vibe.

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A new ip from id mainly, maybe a new Keen game as a 3D platformer.

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Give us another Doom game but a more horror focused on.

no Slayer, no supernatural soldier, just an ordinary guy in an impossible situation 

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18 minutes ago, thewormofautumn said:

Give us another Doom game but a more horror focused on.

no Slayer, no supernatural soldier, just an ordinary guy in an impossible situation 

Like a sequel to Doom 3?

What would you want in a Doom 3: 2?

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At this point Id probably has something already planned, maybe it is even in pre-production and let us pray to God this is Quake 1 singleplayer reboot.

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3 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I also feel like better AI could depend on the enemy type.

Because sometimes, dumb enemies can benefit from simplitic but unique gameplay roles or how they're used in a level.

So, have both.

 

I completely agree with you. I think it would be cool if AI was like any other stat. The lesser enemies are dumb and charge right at you, but the smarter monsters will run and hide and use the environment to their advantage and flank you.

 

I'm hoping that when we get to fight the evil dark lord slayer in DLC 2 that he has enemy AI kinda like Unreal Tournament. Meaning he fights you like a player. That would be a cool boss arena: multiple levels and rooms, with lots of fodder, and you're both hunting each other down.

 

I feel like enemy AI hasn't really progressed a lot in the last 20 years, at least for FPS. Half-Life still has some great enemy encounters even 20+ years later.

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I'd say a Quake reboot with the original game's medieval/tech inspirations, the weapons/map style of the mission packs, and whatever gameplay elements made Doom Eternal work. And possibly some Heretic/Hexen things, like swords, axes, hammers, etc, for melee weapons. Maybe take the chainsaw idea from Doom Eternal and have it be something based on the Crucible Blade.

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A new DOOM game, a proper Keen reboot, and a new IP(s) are all things I would like to see.

 

Honestly, I think a Quake 1 reboot would be redundant. DOOM has always had heavy gothic elements, among other things, and I can't imagine a new faithful single-player Quake game being anything other than retread ground. I think a good compromise would be to add certain elements unique to Quake (which honestly isn't very much), such as enemies, into a theoretical DOOM 6.

 

 

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Something medieval or at least with some focus on melee. A rebrand of Hexen/ Heretic, perhaps, that ties in with the new Doom lore? I just want them to follow up with the unfulfilled promise of the Crucible blade in something at this point...

 

Barring all of that though, yes, a revisit to the Quake 2 universe with a less tongue-in-cheek approach than what's been going on with Doom Eternal, perhaps. Or heck, if they do another Doom game after all, go back to a less comic-book type setting, and a more atmospheric game. I've had a blast with 2016 and Eternal, don't get me wrong, but the joke's are starting to wear thin, as far as the "lore" is concerned. 

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13 hours ago, igg said:

id Software focused on fast and immersive gameplay in Doom Eternal. Quake was fast, raw and brutal. It's the next logical step after returning to id Softwares original gameplay direction. 


If you ask Hugo what he thinks of the gameplay loop he made for Eternal I'm pretty sure he is going to use the words "fast, raw and brutal".

So basically make a Quake game that is literally Doom Eternal but just without glory kills?
Boring. I'd take space wars on Stroggos any day over this.

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I think id should take a break from Doom for now and focus on either a SP Quake game or try developing a new IP (serious it has been over a decade since id developed a new IP)

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I thought Doom only felt "gothic" circa 64, while the "medieval"/castle parts of classic Doom felt different.

Hell also had a variety of themes that even reflected on the enemy designs, in which i even tie to how much modders/mappers did with the setting and how versatile Hell can be.

With that and the low-tech, blue carpet UAC in mind, Doom was technically a more "specific" mix of fantasy and tech, so because the new games aren't really reaching that, it's no wonder making a modern Quake can be difficult.

The words and some descriptions are there but more specific designs and details really aren't.

 

Speaking of "smart" or dumb enemies, the Archvile for example technically has old AI but two impressive abilities even to this day.

He works because he's essentially a "level piece", something that doesn't really apply to modern Doom enemies.

Which is why some enemies have to play differently, even if some have similar or the same attacks. (something that also applies to classic enemies but in a more simpler or "honest" degree)

Doom 3 had the worse enemy variety because a lot of them felt so similar, like gameplay was an after-thought.

If i were to make a gimmicky Doom spin-off, it would be some sort of horde mode or something in that vein, just to come up with hundreds of enemy types and attacks just to "canonize" certain abilities and designs for the sake of "Hell's power level".

To me, expanding on gameplay and designs, regarding of direction or style, is more likely the "expansion" of the Doom universe than story or lore.

Specially for potential crossovers (besides Smash) and the gameplay being 1st in the series, so stuff feels more "literal", along with influenced on D4D/V/T/Meta/EoA related mods and how the 1-up style of pick ups even affects that.

 

With the amount of concept art, i thought in-game galleries would be neat and same for music jukeboxes because of the amount of either unused music or music that you rarely properly hear.

This concept art bit also ties with the "presevation" plans i mentioned like the events/skins/dlc/emotes etc and online features.

2016 by the end of the year had all its stuff available but even then, i'm not sure if there's a easy way to keep up with its multiplayer, SnapMap and other stuff like player deaths on UN and stats.

Even Doom 3's MP seems like it can't be officially off-line with bots, it's no wonder documentation is poor.

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On 3/5/2021 at 11:02 AM, whatup876 said:

Like a sequel to Doom 3?

What would you want in a Doom 3: 2?

Less enemies but harder to kill. Say a Hell Knight that you can’t kill in a single encounter (or you can but it’s very high risk). 
more strategy in evading enemies and picking the right fights. Normal ammo management.

D3s Health system. 
 

Actually. Give me System Shock 3 but done by id

 

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23 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:


If you ask Hugo what he thinks of the gameplay loop he made for Eternal I'm pretty sure he is going to use the words "fast, raw and brutal".

So basically make a Quake game that is literally Doom Eternal but just without glory kills?

Doom is not raw. It (Doom 1+2+2016+Eternal) has/had shiny surfaces, computer monitors in each tech level, colorful areas.

Quake looked like it was build from bricks and steel.

The only level (in modern Doom) which looked similar to Quake was Necropolis.

 

Doom has/had futuristic weaponry with lots of colors and sound effects.

Quakes weapon looked like they we're made of steel and wood. The nailgun and super nailgun looked and sounded like someone is hammering nails. The only "supernatural" weapon was the thunderbolt which was again very basic.

 

Doom has/had enemies of all kind, flying strawberries, Pinkies, soldiers, giants, ...

Quake had a rottweiler.

 

Dooms glory kills aren't as serious as Quakes gibs. When you shoot your nails on enemies, they stagger in pain. Your rocket launcher causes a giant gib explosion.

 

 

Modern Doom features some Quake gameplay elements (e.g. Quad damage) but it looks and feels much different than Quake 1. I think Doom Eternal looks like a Quake 3 Arena + Doom 2 crossover.

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38 minutes ago, igg said:

 

Modern Doom features some Quake gameplay elements (e.g. Quad damage) but it looks and feels much different than Quake 1. I think Doom Eternal looks like a Quake 3 Arena + Doom 2 crossover.

Yop,

it defenivly does.

Don't forget the Jump Pads :)  !

 

Said it before, it seems like the natural Evolution of ID Games routes into Quake like Gameplay.

To the Topic.

A new single Player Quake Entry would be great. don't do the stupid Reboot Thing, call it Quake V and give it a cool Logo.
Or play a bit with the Name, like Quake eViloution (and there is a Doom reference höhö).
Resident Evil does it and it works, only becaus some Marketing People think People get afraid about Numbers it mustn't be true.
Maybe put pure Multiplayer into it and relabel Quake Champions (it plays good!).



 

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Wishful thinking here but I'd love to see a modern classic style Doom similar in what we've seen done with Streets of Rage 4 and Sonic Mania.

The new Doom games have attracted new fans to the older games so it's perfect time to to least try this. 

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I've been asking this for years at this point and I'll say it here.

 

 

I really want Id to make a true sequel to the original Quake. 

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