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Captain Keen

What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Yeah he's an acrobatic glass cannon who developed the ability to drain life force (kind of like the Necromancer from HeXen II). 

EDIT: of course stuff like the grapple hook and dash will need to be replaced with levitate spells and the like.

The grapple hook could still work in a fantasy setting, though.

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Just now, Rudolph said:

The grapple hook could still work in a fantasy setting, though.

 

Plus unlike Doomguy who accidentally found himself having to fight the hordes of Hell, Corvus did choose to take on single-handedly take on the forces of D'Sparil.

Grapple hook would work especially early on. Maybe the dragon claw could work as that kind of thing. That said, I see Corvus started out with weapons but then becoming a more and more capable mage as he progresses.

 

Side note: would he be using Heretic 1, 2 or new weapons?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Grapple hook would work especially early on. Maybe the dragon claw could work as that kind of thing. That said, I see Corvus started out with weapons but then becoming a more and more capable mage as he progresses.

 

Side note: would he be using Heretic 1, 2 or new weapons?

I have never played Heretic 2, so I would not know. I would be fine with a creative fantasy arsenal like Wrath's.

 

But unlike Doomguy who accidentally found himself having to fight the hordes of Hell, Corvus did choose to take on single-handedly take on the forces of D'Sparil in revenge for what they did to his world. So in that sense, he had the Doom Slayer mindset long before the Doom Slayer became a thing.

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Just now, Rudolph said:

Plus unlike Doomguy who accidentally found himself having to fight the hordes of Hell, Corvus did choose to take on single-handedly take on the forces of D'Sparil in revenge for what they did to his world. So in that sense, he had the Doom Slayer mindset long before the Doom Slayer became a thing.

I see Corvus as motivated by duty and the Slayer motivated by rage.

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13 minutes ago, Captain Keen said:

I really hope some people from id read this thread! There's a lot of good discussion here.

 

I am sure they do as far as I know this forum is the second biggest doom community after reddit but here we actually have constructive discussions and on reddit there are only shitty memes and you are not allowed to criticize anything.

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Posted (edited)

I would love to see them try these:

 

- A new Doom game that leans more on the heavier aspects of the franchise, like a Doom 3 Hell on Earth with Eternal gameplay, with a little less emphasis on arenas and more on exploration.

 

If they decide to make a new IP it would be interesting to see them try:

 

- Something focused on first person melee and traversal, like condemned or dying light but with a uniqie setting (and a grappling hook maybe?)

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Just less of Eternal, and more of 2016. Be it in gameplay, lore, level design, etc. Whatever they did on 2016. Do more of that. Be it Quake, another Doom, or fucking Daikatana. Just less of however Eternal went.

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I believe most ex-Raven Software developers now work for Bethesda. Since Heretic and Hexen are their babies, they might be available to work on a Heretic/Hexen 3.

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@Rudolph They may work on a "Spiritual" Heretic/Hexen sequel, they may be the devs, but the rigths of the Ip are not theirs :/

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2 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

@Rudolph They may work on a "Spiritual" Heretic/Hexen sequel, they may be the devs, but the rigths of the Ip are not theirs :/

Yes, but Id never made a Heretic/Hexen game themselves.

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Honestly I think Hexen/Heretic reboot could fit in as a back story for Sentinel History long before the Doomslayer and Maykrs arrive.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/22/2021 at 7:14 AM, Potatoguy said:

Just less of Eternal, and more of 2016. Be it in gameplay, lore, level design, etc. Whatever they did on 2016. Do more of that. Be it Quake, another Doom, or fucking Daikatana. Just less of however Eternal went.

I concur, fights in Eternal get too exhausting after long sessions, ditch weakpoints for the next game.

 

An option to play levels in one go without a hub between them would be great for an update.

Edited by sluggard

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Orcs and Elves game (either a continuation of O&E2 or a spin-off with a genre change into action-y FPS or a blobber dungeon crawler or something else up to your imagination) as a full-blown fantasy with magic and magic accessories entry would be interesting to see.

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After finishing TAG2, I want them to knock on my door and say sorry for ending the series on a whimper.

Then I want them to shake Hugo's hand, say thanks, but then say it's time to give someone else a go now... someone who isn't into mechs, Super Mario, and Warhammer.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

mechs, Super Mario, and Warhammer.

 

This has been a topic raised since the release of Doom Eternal, but yet no one has still yet to definitively answer why Robots, mechs and Platforming is objectively bad for doom, other than, "It doesn't fit" which is super subjective.

 

it's been a year and NO ONE has yet to give a solid argument.

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18 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

This has been a topic raised since the release of Doom Eternal, but yet no one has still yet to definitively answer why Robots, mechs and Platforming is objectively bad for doom, other than, "It doesn't fit" which is super subjective.

 

it's been a year and NO ONE has yet to give a solid argument.

Since DooM itself is sci-fi/fantasy the idea of having dragons, mechs, and space barbarians isn't out the realm of possibility plus no one complained about the Maledict in DooM RoE who was pretty much a dragon. If anything the way NuDooM adds stuff like mechs, dragons, and space barbarians is honestly the next logical step considering what DooM uses for inspirations. I believe most fans when they think of DooM still see only UAC labs, red martian deserts, and hell brutal landscape. Heavy leaning of the sci-fi portion with Hell making the fantastical aspect but now DooM is 26 years old so evolving on the aspect that already came before doesn't hurt.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

no one has still yet to definitively answer why Robots, mechs and Platforming is objectively bad for doom

 

I can't answer for others, but I never said it was bad for DOOM. I'm more concerned about games trying to do too much. Jack of all trades and master of none...

Robots take away the horror aspect, unless it's done like SOMA.

Intra-combat platforming is fine, but I don't enjoy the platforming in between Arenas. Using the meet-hook to swing through the Arena is fun. Grabbing yellow sticks that don't fit into the world feels weird. Giant flaming swinging bars I still laugh at.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, thewormofautumn said:

 

I can't answer for others, but I never said it was bad for DOOM. I'm more concerned about games trying to do too much. Jack of all trades and master of none...

Robots take away the horror aspect, unless it's done like SOMA.

Intra-combat platforming is fine, but I don't enjoy the platforming in between Arenas. Using the meet-hook to swing through the Arena is fun. Grabbing yellow sticks that don't fit into the world feels weird. Giant flaming swinging bars I still laugh at.

 

I get what you are saying, but Those are still very subjective.

I don't see how Robot can take away Horror elements? If anything having a lifeless, emotionless Suit of armor make gives a very unnerving vibe. Platforming can be a good break in between combat while still giving the player something to do besides walking.

 

What examples would be better alternative for Yellow sticks? Something easily readable and still gets the players attention as something that can be grabbed and swung from.

 

I don't get why Hugo and those need to go away, but instead, i feel they need to be done better.

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1 hour ago, thewormofautumn said:

 

I can't answer for others, but I never said it was bad for DOOM. I'm more concerned about games trying to do too much. Jack of all trades and master of none...

Robots take away the horror aspect, unless it's done like SOMA.

Intra-combat platforming is fine, but I don't enjoy the platforming in between Arenas. Using the meet-hook to swing through the Arena is fun. Grabbing yellow sticks that don't fit into the world feels weird. Giant flaming swinging bars I still laugh at.

Almost any media I've come across with robots has portrayed them, or at least some of them, as bad, evil, or at the very least, beyond control. I don't see how they aren't horror. 

That said, I can very much agree that DE does a bit much- the platforming (and I mean, SUPER OBVIOUS THIS IS A PLATFORM platforming) and robotic elements are a strange way to do hell. I enjoy the departure from normal hell tropes but it was all very... hmmmm. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

I enjoy the departure from normal hell tropes but it was all very... hmmmm. 

I guess linking Urdak and Hell to each other kind of forced a technological advanced Hell. Especially if the Dark Lord is the inventor of Urdak.

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I feel like the thing with mech and dragons is more which parts of the setting they're from.

In a prespective of seeing Doom wads/mods as an hypothetical "Doom universe", most people would just make stuff tied to the UAC and Hell.

Rather than adding new worlds or factions, they would assume you can still add more to the existing worlds and try to make it fit.

Specially with the potential versatility Hell had in the originals.

The Sentinel could have been medieval knights instead or even lead to the UAC or humans just become tech knights while instead of Urdak, we could have had a Heaven with its own parallels with Hell like recognizable wall textures, props and even creatures but with a "Heavenly" touch to it.

Doom 3 had the Martians and Soul Cube but the background was still very vague.

 

I also feel like Hell's background could have easily been "evil just because" and the reason for species with tech or resemblence to concepts to other worlds comes down to imitation.

Like a dream or nightmare, where your brain is just automatically copying stuff and handling it in random/weird ways.

 

I also feel like in some ways, the Sentinel had a bit more in common with the first Quake and its expansions, since Doom's fantasy elements were more focused on Hell and demons while Quake had knights, more gothic architecture and even the expansions had a dragon boss and Mjolnir.

Although the "fantasy tech" element may be a bit "too modern" in a sense compared to old school fantasy.

It's also a matter of whether or not Doom always had potential for a more unique identity that wasn't explored in later game.

Even Doom 64 doesn't carry the same type of Hell or even UAC.

 

It's also a matter of aesthetic, which reminds me of a /vr/ quote (one i can't even look up its source anymore) that was "it tries to be 90's when the classics were trying to be 80's" which explains the very low tech aspect of technology and even the simpler demon designs. (even Sigil's artwork has a different style from the demons in the reboot games)

If the new games wanted, Doomguy could have had more weapons attached to the suit and discard an old double barreled shotgun, which was once a product of the outdated UAC that had blue carpeted floors in Phobos.

Then there's the "comic book" style and proportions of demons, along with the chittin anatomy.

And i guess the lore "taking away the weirdness" too.

 

Basically, to some people, the setting of Doom is more about themes and designs than literal context.

But that is also why it would be easier if most Doom games just admitted being their own interpretations of the series, with occasional new designs, gameplay styles and all, as opposed to having one universal lore trying to tie it all.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Almost any media I've come across with robots has portrayed them, or at least some of them, as bad, evil, or at the very least, beyond control. I don't see how they aren't horror.

I don’t think being “bad” is horror. Well, not to me. Horror is a specific genre with specific characteristics. None of which are in Doom 

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On 3/23/2021 at 3:49 AM, Zemini said:

Honestly I think Hexen/Heretic reboot could fit in as a back story for Sentinel History long before the Doomslayer and Maykrs arrive.

It would be very easy to fit Heretic/HeXen magic into the Doom lore. Maybe they can use something like this to make a fantasy game with something akin to Serpent Riders and get around any IP restrictions.

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9 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

It would be very easy to fit Heretic/HeXen magic into the Doom lore. Maybe they can use something like this to make a fantasy game with something akin to Serpent Riders and get around any IP restrictions.

Does Bethesda not hold the rights to the Heretic/HeXen IP?

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6 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Does Bethesda not hold the rights to the Heretic/HeXen IP?

They, as is publicly known, didnt. But there is not necessary to do exact remake of Heretic, named Heretic. It should be just vaguely inspired fantasy Doom game with Eternal gameplay, magical weapons and similar enemies. Might be easy/difficult (depend on angle of view) to archieve this, because whole Doom moves to fantasy settings a lot. From what i remember, Heretic was very colourful and bright.
It should be even story of our Doom Slayer adventures as Sentinel before attacking Hell. Or maybe some Hell levels also, most of content on other planets Sentinels fought with hideous nightmares and chaos spawns.

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Posted (edited)

"Following ZeniMax Media's acquisition of id Software, the rights to the series have been disputed between both id and Raven Software; Raven's parent company Activision holds the developing rights, while id holds the publishing rights to the first three games"

 

It will likely be forever in limbo - so a complete reboot would be required and it would be called Hexeric with some changes to character names.

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