Heartland - final version available on idgames

[Rudolph]

6 minutes ago, skillsaw said:

 

The music also reminds me of SNES era beat'em ups :)

 

But no on Blood II - I've never played it.

Me neither, but I have watched gameplay videos and I know it does start on a moving subway train.

 

But glad to see I was right about the beat 'em up vibe! :D

[fveitsi_]

13 hours ago, Fairweather said:

You can certainly disable autorun in Eternity, in fact I believe it's off by default.

Yeah, I couldn't find autorun at first. LOL! Damn, Eternity..

Edited March 7, 2021 by fveitsi_

[LVENdead]

Finally had a chance to finish this up. 

 

It's just absolutely incredible. This WAD is for the Doom engine what Ion Fury is to the Build engine. The maps use all the advanced features to really effective extents - I mean it never feels gimmicky. I can't understate this enough: to be so consistently surprised during the entire duration of the WAD is incredible, because I've been playing Doom literally since it came out. I love the way the 3d geometry and advanced engine capabilities allow for some inspiring exploration and excellent combat, with arenas and setpieces you really haven't seen in Doom before but which don't really violate any intrinsic "Doomness". I love the scope of everything, and how the levels just feel like these giant superstructures that are interconnected and like intricate machines, folding back on themselves and opening and changing constantly. It's not just an industrial-themed texture or visual design we have going on - it really informs everything about the maps.

 

The new weapons and monsters were such a delight to experience as well. I've been a big fan of @skillsaw's incorporation of glass cannon enemies into the rosters of Valiant and Ancient Aliens, and they are well appreciated in this one as well. @Xaser you fucking knocked it out of the park with the weapons. I love how the flame thrower fits well into the PG role, but flips it on its head a bit by making it deadly to use up close - something you frequently would do with the PG to escape tough situations, and transfers some of its value over to the dual Skorpions. And of course, the Cluster Bomb launcher...man it's hard to replace the BFG, but I can't say this weapon had me wishing it was the old classic, it was just so damn fun to use.

 

 And the soundtrack is just amazing. You half-way forget you're listening to midi music these are just so layered and masterfully crafted. I know there are a lot of great composers in the Doom community but @stewboy is absolutely legendary with this thing. I don't know how you can take this like, house/funk/rock style and mash it up into this catchy but driving groove that fits with an industrial themed map set, or compose what sounds like an entire prog album condensed into a 5 minute track (Map 06) but damn man does it have great results. 

 

The standout map for me is Map 06, where it feels like everything awesome about the WAD comes together in a true moment of synthesis. I enjoyed every second of this WAD, and the only thing bad I can say about it is that I'm sorry it's already over.

[Chopkinsca]

I don't play Doom these days, but holy carp do those screenshots make me feel inadequate. Congratulations on the release.

[Turbine2k5]

Skillsaw, can I confirm that there's no way to return to the very start of MAP06 after you

Spoiler

ride the lift up to the first Cyberdemon fight?

 

And no way to return to the beginning of the tram section?

[skillsaw]

17 minutes ago, Turbine2k5 said:

Skillsaw, can I confirm that there's no way to return to the very start of MAP06 after you

  Hide contents

ride the lift up to the first Cyberdemon fight?

 

And no way to return to the beginning of the tram section?

 

I believe the only place that becomes inaccessible is the very start of the map -- i.e. the broken bridge you are standing on when the map starts. You should be able to get to the area where the first wave of imps and stuff is -- however, you aren't able to get back there until much later in the map.

 

Spoiler

 

Look for this lift/door in the area with weapon 7:

 

 

[baja blast rd.]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:30 PM, skillsaw said:

MAP02: Bruce R. & Son Construction Co.

 

Spoiler

I just got it lol. The cybruiser and the rocket zombie. Damnit.

 

[Spectre01]

23 hours ago, dew said:

That shouldn't break anything, iirc. I did a lot of ledge hopping around the map and hopefully just one skip is left in, heh.

I did something similar to @Snarboo in map03 and ended up dropping down to the Megasphere secret and getting teleported up to the YK from there, possibly skipping the big fight on the lowest level.

 

Speaking of the big fight in map03, it's unfortunately easy to cheese by simply not jumping down into the sewage. You can pick from a variety of structures to drop down to and safely stand on, baiting infighting or splashing enemies below you with infinite height explosions, which I have seen done on stream as well. Is there a technical reason explosives are infinitely tall, since monsters and other actors don't appear to be?

[ReaperAA]

Another small thing I have noticed is that when a window is broken while the player is standing near it, Doomguy makes pain sounds (despite taking no damage). 

[printz]

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

Another small thing I have noticed is that when a window is broken while the player is standing near it, Doomguy makes pain sounds (despite taking no damage). 

@skillsaw Are you using damagefactor <modname>, 0 anywhere in the thingtype definitions? If you have projectiles (and such) which are supposed not to affect certain species, please use damagefactor <modname>, immune. The former, "0" behaviour, was kept due to compatibility concerns, but if you want full protection, use the immune flag. See the last section from Thinggroup.

[esselfortium]

From what I understand, it's a hint about a feature, namely that you can use the glass to painchance monsters.

[sincity2100]

This game is already added to my list..

[Yugiboy85]

Played through map 02 and a little bit of map 03. 

Spoiler

 

I loved map 02. It's more chill than map 01 but the setting is really great. Not to mention, the execution of it great and really makes it look like an actual construction site. Great job on that. Especially that sexy crane on top :) 

 

Map 03 so far is very good too. It reminds me a bit of "sinkhole showdown" from ancient aliens albeit, a more polished and grander version of it. The portals really add to that impression here. 

 

Seriously, I'll keep playing through it when I have more free time but holy shit, this is really good so far. 

 

 

Good job :)

[be2lam]

Hello everyone! Please tell me how run this game? Is there an instruction? After running the eternity, IWAD asks me, but in the archive there is only a pke file. Sorry for asking questions like this, but I've never run such games before. :) Thank you in advance!

[NokturnuS]

4 minutes ago, be2lam said:

Hello everyone! Please tell me how run this game? Is there an instruction? After running the eternity, IWAD asks me, but in the archive there is only a pke file. Sorry for asking questions like this, but I've never run such games before. :) Thank you in advance!

 

On command prompt just : eternity -iwad doom2.wad -file heartland_rc2.pke

 

or just drag and drop .pke file into Eternity.exe

[dmslr]

12 minutes ago, be2lam said:

Hello everyone! Please tell me how run this game? Is there an instruction? After running the eternity, IWAD asks me, but in the archive there is only a pke file. Sorry for asking questions like this, but I've never run such games before. :) Thank you in advance!

 

[Murdoch]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:29 AM, skillsaw said:

But no on Blood II - I've never played it.

 

Keep it that way. Trust me.

[TJG1289]

Finished the set. Map06 was fantastic as well, reinforcing the industrial theme of the previous map, with some great action scenes. With the monster count, I would hope so! One thing I really liked about the whole WAD was the verticality to these maps, and with the portal usage, there's a lot of great areas that just seem so huge. The cluster bomb launcher is pretty fun to use, I just have a tendency to use it a little too close to my face, lol. I died a lot in the initial wave-fight when you pick it up. Didn't die at all in the final arena though, which puts that launcher to fantastic use. Map07's initial start has what has to be the most striking and imposing structure I've ever seen in a Skillsaw map. I won't go into too much detail on this map since it's very different from the rest, but there's a few moments I do want to shoutout: The way the player has to get rid of all their weapons except for pistol and axe, and then you have to do an arena fight with just the axe. Really cool. I liked the non-linearity to getting the keys. Some really tough fights in those paths. Plus, the final arena is really fun. Didn't die once during it, but came close a bunch of times!

 

One thing I neglected to mention with my last post was the music. Another great soundtrack from Stewboy! I feel like I need to go back and listen to them, since with all the action going on, I probably missed some cool things going on with it. I would constantly be catching things I didn't notice in the tracks whenever I had some downtime. I wasn't sure what to expect sound-wise with this set, but it fits pretty well. Def looking forward to downloading that off Bandcamp eventually!

 

All-in-all, my only complaint with the WAD is it's only 7 levels, but with all the detail and intricate design these levels have, I wouldn't be surprised if each map took months to complete, so I can't be too upset with 7 maps. They're incredibly high quality. Is this the best Skillsaw release? Potentially. Replays will help determine that. But there's no doubt this is an incredibly high-quality release with some of the best maps I've played in a long time.

[galileo31dos01]

Not sure if it has been reported already... got stuck in this spot in map 05:

 

[skillsaw]

23 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

I did something similar to @Snarboo in map03 and ended up dropping down to the Megasphere secret and getting teleported up to the YK from there, possibly skipping the big fight on the lowest level.

 

Speaking of the big fight in map03, it's unfortunately easy to cheese by simply not jumping down into the sewage. You can pick from a variety of structures to drop down to and safely stand on, baiting infighting or splashing enemies below you with infinite height explosions, which I have seen done on stream as well. Is there a technical reason explosives are infinitely tall, since monsters and other actors don't appear to be?

 

Thanks - these were a couple of big oversights. It shouldn't be possible to get the YK early by finding the secret anymore, and it's also not going to be possible to cheese the fight by not jumping down in the next version.

[ginc]

5 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Not sure if it has been reported already... got stuck in this spot in map 05:

 

Can confirm, I just got stuck here as well. You can climb over the concrete debris here but can't get out.

 

Having a blast so far

[jmac]

Before now, I somehow didn't even know eternity engine existed. I'm trying to play it now, but I'm getting frustrated with navigating the options. Am I an idiot, or is there really no way to disable mouse movement without entirely disabling the mouse?

[Yugiboy85]

I actually did encounter a potential block in map 02. During the fight with the two archviles on the crane, one of them shoved me off out of the playable area (behind the fences around the construction site) and there's no way back in. I guess an easy fix would be to add some teleporter or something? 

 

I don't know if this got reported or not. Then again, it only happened once but still haha 

 

Here (I nocliped obviously but, basically, an archvile shoved me here from the crane fight):

 

Spoiler

 

Also, in map 04, I encountered some message saying something like "refused to draw portals". It only happened once and it was on top of the blue door building. It didn't affect gameplay whatsoever and when I load a save and went to that spot, it didn't happen again. I thought I'd mention it. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Yugiboy85

[Turbine2k5]

I finally finished Heartland earlier today. All of my thoughts on the WAD can be summarized by a couple of sentences:
 

Skillsaw, can you please make something terrible so we can ridicule you, instead of making masterpieces like this? I'm getting tired of telling everyone how fucking good your maps are!

 

Really, if this doesn't end up with a Cacoward, then I'll UV-Fast the entirety of Sunlust, and I'm terrible at Doom.

 

But seriously, this WAD is another fantastic set from the man that brought us Ancient Aliens and Valiant. Skillsaw's command of the Eternity Engine's features provide for some wonderful environments. Xaser's new weapons are decent; the dual pistols make me feel like John Woo, the fire axe makes me want to charge every enemy I can (especially in MAP07!), the dual SMGs are super satisfying to use against a cloud of fodder enemies, the plasma replacement is tricky to use but essential in certain situations, and the BFG replacement is something I would totally be down to use in lieu of an actual BFG. And then you have the incomparable Stuart Rynn making midis that push the levels up to 11. "Street Surfer" is such a great midi to get you in the mood for the WAD, "See the Shrews" has this sort of whimsical quality that reminds me of AA, and "Souls Symphony" is just icing on the cake and queues up just as the centerpiece of the map comes into view. I love it, it's perfect.

 

Just some short blurbs about the maps from my opinions:

MAP01:

Spoiler

Skillsaw has this ability to make memorable openers. "The Ancient Navajo Wolf Warp" is a testament to that. Now "Subway Sandwich" gets added to that list by letting me pistol zombiemen and shotgunners on a neighboring train before opening the cab door behind me to let me pick up a second pistol and mow down the passengers here. Then I get to do the same thing on my way out of the station I arrive in before opening up to the neighborhood above. The whole town has this decaying feel: the car lift left up, all the random crates lying around, the stopped traffic above, raging fires, the bits of grass peeking out of the brick. And the pacing is great. Also, the Catharsi are evil with their death grenades. Solid opening map.

 

MAP02:

Spoiler

Probably the weakest map gameplay-wise IMHO. I love the environment here and how you have to cross girders to get around in some of the higher places. Those rocket zombies are peak glass cannons, and the reintroduction of the Cybruiser is a worthy addition to the WAD. Plus AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

MAP03:

Spoiler

Probably my second favorite of the WAD. The verticality of the map is extremely impressive, and the fight where all the sludge is drained is a doozy. Also seeing 3 Cybruisers and zombiemen waiting for me makes me anxious. The grell aren't particularly tough, but they are harder to manage in large swarms. I almost would rather fight cacodemons over them.

 

MAP04:

Spoiler

Feels like MAP03: Part Two. The blue key fight is a lot of fun, and the yellow key fight is hair-raising with all the chaingunners and the archvile roaming around. I love the crate warehouse, with all its interesting niches and nooks. The end run to the exit getting interrupted by 3 Cybruisers in front and a mass of imps and shotgunners behind is a great end to the map.

 

MAP05:

Spoiler

My favorite of the WAD. It just has this massive feeling that I love. The moveable catwalks were fun to play around with, and the fight at the end of that section where you're just pumping rockets into the wall of rocket zombies is a lot of fun. And the fight after that with the giant imp group and mancubi. And after that where you're dealing with suicide bombers and a bunch of revenants. And the one where you get a soulsphere and mega-armor before a group of grell pop up to ruin your day. And where you get the flamethrower. I mean, if every fight is a great one, does that mean none of them are fun? ...nah, that's crazy talk!

 

MAP06:

Spoiler

"Get Shafted" is an appropriate name for this map. Dealing with archviles almost everywhere, a cyberdemon up on a catwalk, and the elevator after are all just memorable moments. The tram ride took me about 6 or 7 tries. For some reason, the caco cloud where the second cyberdemon is fought seems to funnel their way down the path instead of spreading out like I'd expect. And then there's the final arena, which seems intimidating but is easily manageable with lots of circlestrafing and infighting, paired with judicious use of the new cluster bomb launcher.

 

MAP07:

Spoiler

I had to check, because someone else was playing through the maps with pistol starts, and there is indeed a script to check if you're carrying weapons over. I love the animation that happens after you give everything up so you can continue. The Gladiator-style arena where you have to berserk axe everything is a blast. I figured the key paths would be best off going from weakest to strongest weapon, but the yellow key path is no joke. I died so much on that U-shaped platform with the imp/suicide bomber/Hell knight sandwich with catharsi topping. Next hardest was the cluster bomb path. I also died here a lot, and at least 4 times hit 0 health when I managed to finally cut through to where the Cybruisers were coming from.

 

The final section with the heart was a bit of a let down, to be honest. The underground portion felt like it was going to be an arena but spawned no monsters, and the upper portion was easily managed with running circles around the arena. Lots of supplies everywhere and I barely used it after just making everyone infight. The only part of that fight I felt threatened on was the wave when the zombiemen spawned in, and that was only for a bit until they were either dead or busy. Overall, I love the level design. I just wish the end was tougher.

 

If you're a fan of Skillsaw, play this WAD. If you like short mapsets, play this WAD. If you enjoy Stewboy's music or messing around with custom weapons, play this WAD. If you have a pulse, you should probably play this WAD. This makes me interested to see what mappers like Ribbiks or esselfortium could do with Eternity. A very fun experience with Heartland.

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, jmac said:

Before now, I somehow didn't even know eternity engine existed. I'm trying to play it now, but I'm getting frustrated with navigating the options. Am I an idiot, or is there really no way to disable mouse movement without entirely disabling the mouse?

If you want to have mouse look instead of mouse movement, Options->Mouse Options->Page 2->Enable Mouselook and Always Mouselook on.
If you want no vertical movement at all, Options->Mouse Options->Novert Emulation (or No Vertical Mouse Movement in devbuilds) on. 

[Turin Turambar]

edit: fixed

[Yugiboy85]

1 hour ago, Turbine2k5 said:

This makes me interested to see what mappers like Ribbiks or esselfortium could do with Eternity. A very fun experience with Heartland.

 

You can actually get a snippit of what esselfortium is capable of doing with the eternity engine. She released a map a few years ago called "vaporware". It showcases what the eternity engine is capable of doing and it's a pretty fun map overall. 

 

Here is a link to it: 

 

 

 

[holaareola]

For anyone with weird mouse sensations in Eternity, try:

 

- Go into mouse settings and set the acceleration type to be "Choco"

- Go into display or video settings (I can't remember which) and turn off vsync

 

On 3/6/2021 at 3:21 AM, Doomkid said:

I have an unfortunate mouse issue where the movement feels very "floaty" in Eternity, which seems to be no fault of it's own - in PrBoom strains and GZDoom I've also had this persistent issue of mouse movement that can't "start and stop on a dime". It's odd because Vanilla, Choco, Zand, ZDaemon and Odamex never seem to have this issue, I can move my mouse as spazily and jankily as I want and there's zero float and it always stops dead soon as I quit moving my hand.

I had that too, Crispy has the same behaviour. After buggering about a bit I found the combo above gives a crisp 1:1 response even with uncapped FPS.

 

Heartland then. Ultra good! I allotted myself one map's worth of gaming time yesterday, but couldn't tear myself away until after tightroping over to the Map03 exit. Impressions thus far: superb! It feels like Doom and yet so advanced at the same time. Not a detail overload and some nice lighting -- no it's woven in the very fabric and flow of the maps. It felt innately weird to stand at the bottom and see those familiar monsters roaming around atop level after level of structure as if it was completely natural. The experience of walking over girders in Map02 was similarly odd -- it overturns years of habituation. Back to Map03, I don't want to spoil anything but the unexpected way the playspace extends forces a delightfully jarring rewrite of the mental map of the terrain. Map03 would be a vertical level by modern gaming standards.

 

The gameplay's delicious: the reserved use of spongy enemies so far gives it a faster moment-to-moment pace that reminds me more of D1 than D2. Lovely stuff, full impressions once I've completed it.

[esselfortium]

47 minutes ago, Yugiboy85 said:

 

You can actually get a snippit of what esselfortium is capable of doing with the eternity engine. She released a map a few years ago called "vaporware". It showcases what the eternity engine is capable of doing and it's a pretty fun map overall. 

 

Here is a link to it: 

 

 

 

Thanks for the shoutout! Though Vaporware Demo can't really compare to Heartland :)

 

It was planned to be part of a larger and more ambitious project, and it was developed more than a decade ago(!) when Eternity's portal functionality (among other things) was still much more of a work-in-progress, so I was designing with much different limitations in mind.

 

I'd like to do something new for Eternity eventually, though these days I'm pulled between so many different projects it's hard to find the time and energy. Heartland is the most inspiring wad I've played in ages, though, and makes me really want to!

[Yugiboy85]

Yes, I know it doesn't compare to heartland but, that doesn't mean it isn't a cool map ^^

 

I'm hoping heartland gives people more insentive to try making more stuff for the engine. I would actually be tempted to make something myself one day haha