[Now on /idgames!!!] TWANGO1 - Vanilla DM for the Modern Age

[Gokuma]

I think I'm just going to take a fresh texture1 from doom2.wad and recopy the needed textures to it.   That's a good idea replacing dbrain with a lavafall.

[ignatiOS]

One change that might be nice is changing the midi for map01. The dwango5 map01 midi is really iconic,

we could easily swap it for another dwango map01 midi.

[Doomkid]

Maybe we could use the Dwango5 map01 remix that’s currently in the 30 slot for map01 instead? I could even try my hand at a new remix (I made that one nearly 10 years ago so it’s been a while..)

[ignatiOS]

2 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Maybe we could use the Dwango5 map01 remix that’s currently in the 30 slot for map01 instead? I could even try my hand at a new remix (I made that one nearly 10 years ago so it’s been a while..)

Sure!

[ignatiOS]

Heres what the hud looks like with @Gokuma's STBAR

 

Edit: Thank you to whoever edited Iggy Sqiggles to IggySqiggles :)

 

Also Mini-Member wooooo!

[Gokuma]

Ok redownload again.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/z4ullqf7g3v3xa8/TWANGO_B.zip/file

 

Have flats between FF_start and F_end first thing in the wad (seems to be a good practice for vanilla doom2.exe) followed by texture patches and pnames + texture1.

 

Redid texture1 and let it create a new pnames for me.   There was no salvaging that texture1 with how many normal Doom 2 textures were deleted here and there and redundant textures added.

 

Didn't copy all the band logos in since the map that was using them is not in.

Didn't copy the waterfall texture as we can't add animated textures in vanilla and it's unused.

We have all the textures used.   Doom2.exe would crash if a map had an undefined texture and I warped through all 32 maps with no crash.

DBrain* is a tall animated lavafall.   That and skies are the only textures replaced.   Step3 is just made taller repeating as a single graphic.

 

rsky1 = starry night/space

rsky2 = red mountains with red & dark sky

rsky3 = tiling red skinface (I think I did alright, but maybe it could be made to tile better)

rsky4 = tiling ep4 sky currently unused

Texture replacing midspace added as midrails and midspace restored

 

map03 Menace uses midrails (I think this is the map that brought it, so did a find&replace to use the new one)
map10 Refinery left as midspace
map21 Bunker Buster uses midspace
map22 Warp Routine left as midspace
map24 Interdimansia using midrails

 

Added an exit sign above switch in map26 Romero's Void.   I still recommend doing away with the outer lava but I didn't touch that.   Maybe the exit sign I added could be lit up better with a brighter light level on top of the switch's sector, but at least the exit is labeled for now.

 

So I slightly edited maps 03 and 26 there aside from my own.

And already in previous reupload fixed the teleporters in map31, even if we scrap that map and hopefully ditch that music.

 

In a separate wad I experimented with map22 changing all the fireblu to sp_rock, aligning the textures, and changing those back to fireblu, like I mentioned before.   Just made it work worse.   The fireblu seemed matched better to the adjacent sp_rock before I did anything.   So this map remains unchanged by me.

 

Have not combined Server on Fire and Big Brown Box as I've seen no permission given yet.

EDIT: Just sent a message to Joe on Doomer Boards to ask him if he's cool with it.

 

Switched map01 and map30 music like you guys were talking about.

 

Dsslop is now a mix pasting combination of the replacement and original slop sound.   Replacement sound starts at 0.666 seconds into it.

 

Added my statbar for now.

 

Thought I saw a page of varieties of statbars somewhere but can't find it now.   Guess it wasn't Realm667's Repository.

 

Hopefully I'm done meddling with the main twango_b.wad for now.   Interdimansia is closer to complete now but it feels like it still needs something.

 

 

There's the question of whether I should make mapinfos so ending map30 goes back to map01.

 

 

UPDATE:

For map10 Refinery, I have not modified it in Twango_b.wad but here is one I just worked on to replace it.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1ggbjo5xhh39cl0/tmap10.wad/file

So after Doomkid's improvements, I did this:

Made room by exit larger, aligned textures, and added teleporter.

Added teleporter in a major room to go back and forth with that one.

Weakened the escapable nukage, widened the diagonals, and put support textures on ends of lift bridges.

Swapped some textures in the elevators and unpegged lower so some logical ones move with the lift for cool effect.

 

EDIT: Noticed that map31 is in the regular rotation.

Brcom switches in map32 Quad Goal need to be changed back to Sw2starg.

Just get the map02 version from twangok.wad in lama0.zip and rename it to 32 as I think that was the only change made, while textures were messed up.   Map32 in that wad is dehacked doomball requiring:

Thing 116 (Dead Lost Soul)
Initial frame = 842
Hit points = 1000000
Width = 1048576
Height = 2752512
Bits = 4727814

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Gokuma

[OpenRift]

@Doomkid @Gokuma great work from both of you. I really do appreciate these revisions. 

 

That being said, there are a few criticisms and changes I do plan on making. 

 

• I think I may remove mohawk guy. Don't get me wrong, he's a great customization, but I think it just doesn't fit as much with TWANGO's style. It feels more like a Doomkid thing than a TWANGO thing if you get what I'm saying. We could put it in one of the next TWANGO WADs though. 
• I'm gonna update the TWANGO ENDOOM screen, because I was also working on one of those as well and I kinda wanna put some WAD credits on there as well.
• Not a big fan of the shotgun sound replacement. I feel like it's a little bit overused and doesn't feel as satisfying as the one I had before. The plasma gun change I can understand since it sounded too much like the BFG firing sounds before. 
• I feel like having "Back to basics" in the MAP30 slot just makes more sense to me because it kind of comes full circle as it returns to the classic DWANGO MAP01 clone.
• Maybe some other minor changes that I'm forgetting at the moment.

I'll upload revision C as soon as it's ready.

[Gokuma]

Thanks.   Please try and leave the whole logo of the endoom intact.   Looks like Doomkid really did some good work on that.   Remember we do have credit on each map.   Hopefully should be able to fit enough text around it as necessary.

 

Sent him the last build of the wad and got permission from Joe Ilya to combine his map11 Big Brown Box with @Redead-ITA 's map29 Server Room on Fire with the Server Room being the central theme and his part being the outside.   He said it would be interesting.   If it's cool with Redead, I'll get on it.

 

I just remembered a reason having at least zmapinfo would be good idea.   For testing in my own wad I currently have NoCrouch commented out for Quad Goal.   But a finished wad should have it to stop people from just crouching to repeatedly activate the scoring.   Only a player corpse sliding in should be able to do it.

[Redead-ITA]

Just now, Gokuma said:

Sent him the last build of the wad and got permission from Joe Ilya to combine his map11 Big Brown Box with @Redead-ITA 's map29 Server Room on Fire with the Server Room being the central theme and his part being the outside.   He said it would be interesting.   If it's cool with Redead, I'll get on it.

I am somewhat kind of against the idea, But i think we can find caveat, basically i wish to keep my version of my map but also have it along the version you want to merge with.

I am just not digging the idea of map merging with joe's map but Wouldn't hurt to see how it would turn out also

So having both my map standalone and the combined map would be good test.

[Gokuma]

We're trying to make room for Mr.Rocket's Mr.Crunchy map and we can't have a small map by itself and the same map again combined with another taking up two slots within this Twango #1 wad.

 

I can get on it and PM it to you to see if you like it and decide it's OK to replace one map and free up the other map slot.

[OpenRift]

I think I'm also going to work on optimizing different difficulties for the different deathmatch playstyles, akin to how TNT Bloodlands does it. May or may not scrap this idea, we'll see. Also gonna try look into recording some deathmatch demos.

[DCG Retrowave]

On 3/30/2021 at 5:09 PM, OpenRift said:

2 out of 16 spawns

Vanilla DOOM only supports 10 DM spawns.  The rest are ignored, although they can be still be useful since most source ports should take advantage of more.

[OpenRift]

4 minutes ago, DCG Retrowave said:

Vanilla DOOM only supports 10 DM spawns.  The rest are ignored, although they can be still be useful since most source ports should take advantage of more.

That's part of what I was wanting to do. I want the WAD to not only be vanilla-compatible, but also compatible with pretty much everything else as well so you can play it in anything with up to 16 players. 

[OpenRift]

IMPORTANT FOR MAPS GOING FORWARD

We have a difficulty standard for all maps going forward. I will be editing the current maps to reflect these.

About No Cell Weapon Difficulties

On the lowest difficulties, cell weapons will be replaced by rocket launchers and cell ammo will be replaced by rockets/rocket boxes. The purpose of these difficulties is for players new to deathmatch, aka baby mode. ;)

 

All Guns Middle Difficulty

All ammo pickups should be turned off on medium difficulty.

Edited April 3, 2021 by OpenRift

[ignatiOS]

@OpenRift What’s altdeath?

[OpenRift]

17 minutes ago, IggySqiggles said:

@OpenRift What’s altdeath?

Deathmatch 2.0, characterized by the following

• no weapon stay, weapons respawn the same way items do
• items respawn
• weapons have less ammo upon pickup (akin to singleplayer), requiring the player to look for ammo pickups

 

So essentially, Hard difficulty would have ammo pickups present.

Edited April 3, 2021 by OpenRift

[ignatiOS]

For I think map19 (Streets), there shouldnt be a spawn in the plasma room, it kinda defeats the purpose of pressing a switch and running to the room when you could just spawn in it.

[Gokuma]

@OpenRift, For what guns are available by skill,  could you leave Quad Goal alone since it's out of the normal rotation with no exit leading to it?   There's a severe lack of real estate in it which would contribute to the worst weapon and ammo shortages.

 

Also, I really don't like the idea of deleting all ammo from skill 3.   That's going to lead to shortages in both deathmatch modes on lots of maps.

 

I never knew that vanilla only pays attention to I guess the 10 earliest DM starts placed.  Lamasery has 16 and Interdimansia has 13, so probably some adjusting needed there.

 

At least fortunately when I made the Dwango5-04 Redux, its 12 DM starts were the first things I placed, things 0 through 11, and I went around alternating on each platform as I placed them instead doing a few in a row on each.

 

They weren't the first things in Quad Goal but I think did the same thing otherwise.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Gokuma

[OpenRift]

7 minutes ago, Gokuma said:

@OpenRift, For what guns are available by skill,  could you leave Quad Goal alone since it's out of the normal rotation with no exit leading to it?   There's a severe lack of real estate in it which would contribute to the worst weapon and ammo shortages.

  

Also, I really don't like the idea of deleting all ammo from skill 3.   That's going to lead to shortages in both deathmatch modes on lots of maps.



Yeah, I'm not touching Quad Goal.

 

As for removing ammo from skill three, its more designed for deathmatch 1.0 (weapon stay) to reorient the combat toward a more endurance-focused way of play. Skill 4 is our recommended altdeath difficulty, but altdeath can still be used just fine for every other difficulty aside from 3. The thing is, most people (myself included) play deathmatch on skill 4 or 5 anyway, so the other skills are more like gimmicks. Perhaps I'll just change the skill 3 name to something more descriptive, I dunno. I'm probably gonna include an infographic about the difficulties when this is all said and done.

[Gokuma]

Bleh, a 2nd soulsphere I added to Interdimansia in the new area was supposed to be another invisibility sphere.   Too close to plasma and somewhat too close to blue armor there.   I'm testing my map and I'm thinking "What the...  Who put that there?   Wait, I was the last one to modify it."

 

Oh yeah, if we can't disable the various intermission txts, we should replace them with some funny stuff.   Probably want to finalize our map set and order first for the sake of possible relevance.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Gokuma

[ignatiOS]

Just posted the deleted/cut hud (Mohawk guy with stbar and blue text) in #off-topic on the discord server if anyone liked it :)

[OpenRift]

4 minutes ago, IggySqiggles said:

Just posted the deleted/cut hud (Mohawk guy with stbar and blue text) in #off-topic on the discord server if anyone liked it :)

Don't worry, we might use it in one of the sequels. I just didn't feel like it belonged in our first episode.

[ignatiOS]

17 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Don't worry, we might use it in one of the sequels. I just didn't feel like it belonged in our first episode.

Maybe a stbar with the Twango logo colours (Black, white, green and blue) would look cool? 

 

Edit: We already have blue text so maybe just black, white and green for the stbar.

[OpenRift]

Alright, here's Revision C

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19jSIg44sRoIodus9C8jMi8TJ1yzxQyFL/view?usp=sharing

 

Patch Notes

• Reverted to old shotgun sound replacement
• Removed Ray Mohawk (would fit better in a sequel episode)
• replaced status bar with the one from Doom 64 for Doom II (may be subject to change as off Iggy's status bar suggestion)
• Swapped Maps 30 and 31
• Adjusted items on all maps to accommodate for the aforementioned game rule settings based on difficulty

[Doomkid]

Just a few notes from me, some are crucial and some don’t matter as much:

 

- Map01 needs the WFALL textures, and they animate perfectly in vanilla anyway, so they should definitely be included Whoops, getting my lava and water mixed up here.. WFALL does animate in vanilla though just for future reference

 

- Every DM server is hosted on the Nightmare! difficulty, so the maps should remain unedited in the hardest skill levels (seems to be the case but just reiterating in case)

 

- Gokuma’s HUD is really cool, are we not using it? (Not at PC atm so can’t directly check)

 

- There’s no need to have more than 10 DM spawns on any map, ever - ZDaemon, Zand and Oda have flags to turn off instant respawning in case of a crowded server (and aside from that the only port to have a glitch when too many people connect to a DM is Zandronum, ZD and Oda handle it just fine)

 

- It doesn’t have to be the sound I picked (I just plucked it out at random) but please change that SG sound - The current one is really grating, especially with headphones on.. it can even just be the classic D5 shotgun sound, anything..

 

- I’m fine with the HUD face not being used. It’s worth noting that a few DWANGO wads did use custom mugshots, but It was just another last minute addition so it’s nbd either way!

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Doomkid

[ignatiOS]

5 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

 

- Gokuma’s HUD is really cool, are we not using it? (Not at PC atm so can’t directly check)



In Revision C, OpenRift is currently using this one:

I also prefer Gokuma's one but if we were to use it we'd have to change the blue text to red or other warmer colours in my opinion.

[OpenRift]

6 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

- It doesn’t have to be the sound I picked (I just plucked it out at random) but please change that SG sound - The current one is really grating, especially with headphones on.. it can even just be the classic D5 shotgun sound, anything..

D'awwww, man, I loved that sound tho! I didn't know it sounded that bad, I just thought it sounded really meaty. I personally didn't have any problems with it using headphones, I thought it sounded just fine. But if you insist on changing it, I'll go find a different one. 

[Doomkid]

It's just got a whole lot of 'high end scratchiness' going on and is too loud compared to all the other SFX. The pistol sound is actually really loud and compressed with a lot going on in the high range as well, but it's not quite as bad there.. For comparison's sake, the nice beefy PSX/Dwango5 sounds sit mostly in the mid to low end and are balanced better to mesh with the other SFX.

 

I'm just perusing through the wad now, the only thing left that really stands out to me is that we have WAY too many red skies going on. It's going to get pretty repetitive if the colors never change. If the orange E4 sky was moved the replace the red mountainous sky that's currently in E2, I think it would work a whole lot better for the sake of variety (plus, where the sky wraps vertically is really easy to see on a few maps, especially map20)

 

This might be controversial, but I don't really think that Server Room on Fire or Big Brown Box need any further changes, but that ball is totally out of my court, so you guys do whatever you think is best on that front.

 

Also that Map31 MIDI is kinda funny, but I can see why it's too stupid for Gokuma's liking, lol.

 

That's all I've got, everything else is looking hunky dory!

[Gokuma]

Quick made some changes for a version Cb.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/rsyha2xomfrnshh/TWANGO_Rev_Cb.zip/file

 

Updated https://www.mediafire.com/file/z4ullqf7g3v3xa8/TWANGO_B.zip/file so we still have it to refer back to.

 

In both:

*Added WFall textures to both though I don't see it used in map01 (I guess they programmed animation for a cut alpha texture?)

*Changed map31 music to Reggae Birthday Death March which has some similarity to the Mr. Trololol midi but sounds way better and have Addams Family and Three Stooges midis sitting there as alternate resources.  (Well AF had to be converted to mus).   For map31, B still has Back to the Basics and Cb has D5-04redux.

*Copied the newer version of Refinery into version B

*Fixed one tiny texture alignment on a 2 length linedef at exit door in map10 Refinery in both.

*Deleted a tag from sector 0 and made its lines invisible on map in D5-04 (map30 in B and map31 in Cb)

*Made sector 0's lines invisible and fixed Sw2Starg switches in map32 Quad Goal.

(Note when making new maps, I make a junk sector 0 out in the void somewhere.   I think I read sector 0 and the coordinates 0,0 can cause demo desyncs)

Copied updated Lamasery data in but left the things data exactly as it was whether version B or Cb (some more texture alignment).

Changed a soulsphere to invisibility in Interdimansia.

 

The full audio (and video) of the Mr. Trololol song is freaking great.   I think it's hilarious.   Especially the back story that he totally trolled the guy who wrote some poor lyrics for it.   But the midi is missing his vocals which are the best part and I find the midi version just irritating and I certainly don't want it on my map.

 

Please hold off on a decision on Server Room on Fire and Big Brown Box for a bit.

 

Maybe colorswap my tiling skinface to something other than red?   Green or Blue?

Currently it is a lot of reddish and black from maps 12 to 20 and then bright red from 21 through 32.   But I think they look different enough and fit with and contrast with the maps well.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Gokuma

[Doomkid]

That Map31 MIDI is only about 1 minute long, so players will hear it stop and start again at least 5-6 times during a normal round, it might get a little irritating. Also, the railing texture on Cpt. Toenail's Map21 seems to have been switched back to it's vanilla variant, making it look a little weird.

 

(I swear I'm not trying to be nitpicker supreme here, rofl. I just want to nip these little issues in the bud before release!)