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HombreSal

Can we please talk about the Chasm

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Posted (edited)

Unironically the greatest Doom 2 map. Great visuals, distinctive areas with many themes (acid, cave, techbase, etc) without their visuals clashing horribly, isn't that hard if you walk carefully in a straight line in the catwalks, and most importantly, it isn't Barrels o' Fun or Nirvana (which are cramped and unfairly difficult imo, while The Chasm is very spacious and interesting to look at). Why all the hate for it?

Edited by HombreSal

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Posted (edited)

I thought the Chasm was ok. I wouldn't call it the best (I might give it to Refueling Base), but I thought it was a good map.

Edited by Wavy

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Posted (edited)

I respect Sandy for always pulling the rug out from under the player with his designs, even though most of them are either weird, obtuse or annoying. The Chasm is... it's okay. If you don't make a big deal out of the infamous ledges, the map itself is fine. Not amazing, not awful. Its infamous reputation far outweighs what the map actually consists of.

Edited by Biodegradable

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DOOM/2/U maps are quite simplistic, however ...

Would they have had a map editor like Doombuilder2, I'm sure we would play far more sophisticated maps. But they did not. Keeping in mind that the map editor available to them at the time was text based, I consider those maps masterpieces.

 

Just image constructing a TEXTMAP for UDMF not having the 2D Mode or Visual Mode available. Good luck with that.

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This comes up often enough that I don't have a lot new to say here, but yeah I make no secret of liking The Chasm.  No, it's not like my most favoritest map or anything, but it had an atmosphere that made it especially memorable for me the first time I played Doom II.  I'd definitely put it in my upper quartile of favorite Doom II maps (which partly speaks to the fact that I honestly find most of Doom II kind of runs together or is, you know, Nirvana.)

 

Why do people hate it?  Well the room at the end with the narrow ledges and lost souls and inescapable death pits everywhere is pure evil, and not in a cool or fun way.  I don't know why Sandy thought that was a good idea, it's indefensibly bad especially for the end of the map.  I'm willing to forgive it for the special feeling the rest of the map gives me, but I sympathize with people who don't feel that way.

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29 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

DOOM/2/U maps are quite simplistic, however ...

Would they have had a map editor like Doombuilder2, I'm sure we would play far more sophisticated maps. But they did not. Keeping in mind that the map editor available to them at the time was text based, I consider those maps masterpieces.

 

Just image constructing a TEXTMAP for UDMF not having the 2D Mode or Visual Mode available. Good luck with that.

I think you're confusing this with something, because the editor id Software used was not text-based: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/DoomEd

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The chasm was inspired by a nightmare Sandy had. He just felt the need to share said nightmare with us. He's a very.... charitable... man.

 

Also, can we have a moment of silence for all those poor souls who played this with just a keyboard? They deserve our unconditional respect

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Nope, terrible map.

 

Breaks the game's pacing. A challenge for bad reasons. When you fail, the negative result is so damn annoying. The lack of mouse look amplifies the annoyances. The really abstract design giving little direction makes it worse. Overall the experience does feel like a fever dream from Sandy Peterson.

 

I respect new ideas but this didn't work out.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

The chasm was inspired by a nightmare Sandy had. He just felt the need to share said nightmare with us. He's a very.... charitable... man.

 

Also, can we have a moment of silence for all those poor souls who played this with just a keyboard? They deserve our unconditional respect

F. Also, never knew this bit of trivia! Was never a fan of the Chasm, both aesthetically and gameplay-wise. Monster Condo is a far stronger Sandy Map from that "episode."

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8 minutes ago, SiMpLeToNiUm said:

Also, never knew this bit of trivia!

In a video, Sandy also mentioned that once he was knee-deep in a project, his mind would constantly refer back to that project. He would tend to dream of that project until it's completion. Maybe his love of lovecraft's works had some sort of psychological effect on his dreams?

11 minutes ago, SiMpLeToNiUm said:

Monster Condo is a far stronger Sandy Map from that "episode."

Monster Condo... always felt out of place in that episode. Not very hellish in many areas, though not strictly a bad map per se.

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I'm a fan of spirit world, and maybe waste tunnels. I don't have a problem with how the chasm plays, but not a fan of the visuals.

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33 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

In a video, Sandy also mentioned that once he was knee-deep in a project, his mind would constantly refer back to that project. He would tend to dream of that project until it's completion. Maybe his love of lovecraft's works had some sort of psychological effect on his dreams?

Monster Condo... always felt out of place in that episode. Not very hellish in many areas, though not strictly a bad map per se.

Very interesting...yeah, not sure about the Lovecraft stuff...
as for Monster Condo...idk. It's an interesting map because it's almost like this limbo-esque map. It's a weird wooden structure with a vague "comfort" to it, mixed with this sense of unease and tension due to the darkness and whatnot. It's much more like a dream space than The Chasm imo. Very abstract and surreal. More of a Limbo than it is Hell, per-se.

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Just now, SiMpLeToNiUm said:

It's an interesting map because it's almost like this limbo-esque map. It's a weird wooden structure with a vague "comfort" to it, mixed with this sense of unease and tension due to the darkness and whatnot. It's much more like a dream space than The Chasm imo. Very abstract and surreal. More of a Limbo than it is Hell, per-se.

I've never thought about it that way.... Maybe that was the point of that map.

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22 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

I've never thought about it that way.... Maybe that was the point of that map.

I think so, anyway. Never really felt like hell as much as it did Limbo.

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If playing with mouse enabled The Chasm is okay, with the classic controls... Fuck no.

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I don't know if I'd quite agree with The Chasm being the best map in Doom 2, but it's certainly not the worst one.

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Posted (edited)

As a child, I had never heard the word “chasm” and thought it was pronounced with a soft ch, like “chaz-um”. What a dumb kid!

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for a moment i hoped that this is a topic about Chasm: The Rift game. ;-)

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4 minutes ago, ketmar said:

for a moment i hoped that this is a topic about Chasm: The Rift game. ;-)

You and me both. I try to forget about the chasm.

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Chasm and Monster Condo are both amazing levels.

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For some reason, all of the worthwhile maps in Doom 2 are placed in the last episode (outside of refueling base, maybe). Chasm, Monster Condo, Spirit World and Living End feel most like good old U-Doom. They're also the maps that are good for the eyes.

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Posted (edited)

Chasm is also a good example of "How can you make difference on gameplay ?" style map. Most Of DooM maps made by Sandy Peterson has this. Honestly, I am not fan of Chasm actually.

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agree though i dont think nirvana is unfair or hard or something like that i dont even think its a bad level but also not a good one...

it unfinished thats for sure

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Posted (edited)

boy oh boy i sure do love walking on narrow ledges while not being able to look down to see where tf i'm going

 

nah, it sucks ass. most of the level is fine but that part completely ruins it for me 

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Overall a great "MAP" but not as good for me as the heavy hitters(e.g. Map11) of DoomII. A big plus is that it really differed from the rest and has a bit of a DoomI feeling to it.

I used to play it daily to see how fast I could finish it.

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Posted (edited)

I like Chasm because it's one of those open-ended maps with tons of optional content.  Those are always neat to play.

 

However, I do feel like the thin ledges are a gimmick that wears......thin.  It's not bad with modern controls, but I wouldn't call it good either.  And once you know where to go, I feel like too much of the map is completely skipped over - not as much as something like MAP18, but still.  And it also suffers from an acute case of "Doesn't feel like hell" syndrome.

 

Imagine if MAP24 was done more in the style of MAP29 or MAP24/27 from Plutonia - keeping or slightly modifying the layout, but with thicker ledges and more intense combat.  I think it would be a vast improvement.

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