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Armaetus

Sprites or models?

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Which do you prefer? I prefer cheb's JDoom models all the way, even on HR map 14 with all the monsters, I hit under 20 FPS briefly on my 1.7ghz Athlon XP..

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I'm happy with Cheb's models, but I've no objection to the normal sprites either.

As for framerates, the only map where I got serious slowdown on my system (P4 2.2GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce4 Ti4600) with jDoom was Equinox Map04. However, I've just tried it with the latest version of jDoom, and the problem seems to have largely gone. AV map26 is a bit choppy near the start, but not so that it's a serious problem.

I'd say these models have a pretty good balance between appearance and usability.

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I may use JHexen, but it's .996, which means it uses sprites. Models may look nice, but since Doom, Heretic, and Hexen were originally designed with sprites, most MD2s may take away from the general feel and atmosphere of the games. The only exceptions are small models used for items, weapons, and ammo (or mana).

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I'd have no problem with using the models - but since the system i'm running is rather lowly, that's out of the question.

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Sprites. They're one of the reasons Doom is Doom, and not those other games.

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Doom is still doom regardless of whether your using sprites or models. Doom's "Doomness" goes far beyond mere graphics.
I like chebs models, except for maybe the pistol. However the towo biggest reasons why I use JDoom are the dynamic lighting and the color pallete(sp?). ZDooms pallete looks really washed out to me no matter what kind of adjustments I make. And lighting is a big deal to me in any video game.

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I agree wholeheartedly with Assmaster; Jdoom's lighting effects enchance the game's atmosphere, though a lot of doomsday-specific WADs use it to a much greater extent (turning down light levels and using lamps/torches/etc to illuminate the area). If you throw in void light sourcing, and add flatnames like the BLOOD and FWATER textures to the text.ded file, you'll get even more ambience for your (invisible) money.

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Judging by the screenshots of those models I'd have to go with the sprites.
I don't feel like turning the perfectly ok looking sprites into pointy square-face Quake 1 quality models - this was actually one of the reasons why I thought Doom looked prettier (I said prettier, repeat prettier, not that it looked "better") than Quake 1.

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I agree with you dsm. Quake I used way too much brown and red: all the Quake Engines do. They were too boxy; but hey, it was new technology. I was all happy when it came out too.
But Doom is much better with sprites. Might as well make the project for QUAKE if you put models in it: why have models in DOOM when you can do it 3 times better in QUAKE?

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The downside to most sprites is the monsters had a one sided death, same with all the items. Models make it so much more realistic.

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Mr. Chris said:

The downside to most sprites is the monsters had a one sided death, same with all the items. Models make it so much more realistic.

That can be changed. :)

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Heh, I myself prefer the sprites, the models themselves tend to look very......odd when compared to the sprites IMO.

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Depends on the situation. If the WAD has no extra resources like sprites or textures, then JDoom with models, hi-res textures and all the lighting effects at 1024x768 look great. Doom to me isn't as much about looks as feel. The first time I was in a dark tunnel and saw an Imp lit up in the orange-red glow of it's own fireball I was hooked.

I don't play WADs like Eternal Doom with JDoom though because the lo-res sprites and textures don't look as good as they do in a software port. So basically, sprites are good, models are better.

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Doom with models and hi-res textures is just not Doom anymore. I tried it and it just doesn't look right. Somehow, everything that makes Doom Doom is gone. Besides, many WADs use sprite or texture replacements which don't mix well with the 'enhanced' stuff. Since almost all of my favorite WADs are of this kind the entire question is really a non-issue for me.

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Sprites, it just has to be.

Something about them, they just feel... right.
Models just ain't Doom.

And as for one-sided deaths (Mr. Chris), I suppose if you were a graphic artist, you could draw the 7 other dead body frames and use dehacked to make the dead body 8-sided...

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You don't even need DeHackEd to do such a thing. If you name each graphic frame appropriately the engine will read each one from the corresponding angle.

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what do the frame names mean in doom?
All the BOSSA,BOSSB,BOSSC or something like that...

Chu said:

why have models in DOOM when you can do it 3 times better in QUAKE?


Why have models in QUAKE when QUAKE2 does it 3 times better again?
Why have models in QUAKE2 when... (and so it could go on)

I guess if people are really intent on using models they'll have it done in Doom because it has a larger fanbase. Then again, using models RESTRICTS the level to people who have JDoom or ZDoomGL and a killer PC to go with.

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The 1st 4 characters represent the Thing (monster, item, etc.) The 5th letter is a particular frame (like A is the 1st walking frame), the number after that the angle. If there is two sets of letter/nimbers the frame is mirrored (such as in PLAYA2A8.)

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beezee88 said:

...using models RESTRICTS the level to people who have JDoom or ZDoomGL and a killer PC to go with.

Er, no. Models are an option in some ports, not a feature of a level.

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Grazza said:

Er, no. Models are an option in some ports, not a feature of a level.


oh yeah, forgot. screw what i said.

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beezee88 said:

what do the frame names mean in doom?
All the BOSSA,BOSSB,BOSSC or something like that...


Why not pop along to my site for an explanation on the Doom sprite naming conventions? You'll find it under the "Doom General" button.

Edit: Or did you mean what do the names ACTUALLY mean? eg TROO = Imp - originally going to be called the demon TROOper, etc.

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